The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[sgtfda]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

EE
True when I looked at the heart stone I thought I saw something. I brought this up for opinion. Yes I did say why this thought entered my brain and is a interesting twist to the tale. After you got on the Masonic thing perhaps I pulled your chain a little. Forgive me for that. Perhaps there is a reason why the township I worked for bought me a house in AZ. To get me the hell out of Pennsylvainia. They all had a smile on their face at my retirement party.
True I've had help from some brothers on other hunts but it had nothing to do with the Grand Lodge. If had I had secret knowledge I would not be digging all those empty holes. I've never hidden my activities and am well known for helping others on their hunts in Pennsylvania. Just look at my past posts on this site.
Attached is a photo of me standing in one of those empty holes. As you see I have nothing to hide.

 

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[somehiker]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Ha!
That silly grin says it all.C'mon,lift your left foot up and show us what yer hidin....

 

[sgtfda]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Somehiker that's how they will ID my head when it's found in the Superstions. The grin! In the picture I'm standing on a gold bar that had the Masonic symbol stamp on the back of it. You see, I can't help myself. My Az partner is also nuts. He is the only one that can put up with me.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Ben:
Your imaginative and evolving tale is,I believe,a perfect example of just what Springfield was talking about.
Interesting how you always seem to drop by when the subject appears to be heading to the nitty gritty.

Yesterday it was two trail maps....now it's FOUR trail maps
My offer,which you have not met,still stands.

Regards:SH.

Wayne,

As far as I know, Ben has never taken anyone up on their offers, nor followed up on his. He has never kept his word to one person, that I know of......except for, possibly, sending Randy a book.

Over the years I have tried to figure out what his never ending saga is all about. I assume it's an effort to pen a follow up book on Calalus. I recognized the connection, early on, that he was attempting to make with a Calalus-Superstition Mountains extended story.

Cyclone Covey did try to make the connection between Calalus and the Apache. In the process, he managed to make up some of his own Apache history. Reading Covey's book was entertaining.

Any time too much heat is placed on Ben and his story, he drags-up and says he's all done on whatever site he's pushing his tale on. Eventually he comes back as another partner/identity. I just wish he would publish the book and end it.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

sgtfda---

You did answer questions, about a dozen of them. Unfortunately, all of your answers were merely Straw Man diversions, as none of them were the one which I had asked you.

I didn't ask you to divulge any of your "brotherhood" secrets. I only asked what the intention was behind Masons having any secrets at all. And your silence on that speaks volumes.

By your responses, it appears that the Masons do have something to hide, and so do you.

 

[somehiker]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Joe:
I suspect you are correct in your analysis.What better way to boost interest and sales than to pin a discredited story to one that still has legs.
I guess he feels that he has to convince us before he can convince a publisher.Must be frustrating.Seems to be a common tactic,not unreasonable I suppose.
Unless the theorist has nothing but fantasy and innuendo to offer.

Regards:Wayne

 

[sgtfda]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

King George asked the same question. What were our intentions. Nothing has changed. A free American republic. That's why dictators fear and try to destroy us. I have a friend in the middle east who would be put to death for being a Mason. Enjoy your freedom EE and thank our Masonic founding fathers you do not have a king or pope telling you what to do. Only those idiots in Washington. But they are the idiots the public chose.
If you think there is more to it join and see for yourself. If you are of good moral character and believe in a higher being we will take you in. All you have to do is ask. Then you will find that which you seek.
Why do we need secrets. Because we are a secret society and would not be much of one without a few secrets
I apologize to the forum members for this distraction. This will be my last post on the Masonic subject.

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Because we are a secret society and would not be much of one without a few secrets

sgtfda---

I agree that this just about wraps it up on this sub-topic.

What you are saying above is, "we have secrets because we have secrets." Just another non-answer.

And I don't think it's much of a distraction for the forum members, because most seek the truth. And this has been thought my many to possibly be tied-in to several treasures, and situations affecting them.

I have heard it explained that the Masons are just a bunch of "good ol' boys" who like to fraternize, and who are merely like a big kids club, what with their secret handshakes and other secret signals. But "big kids" don't get all serious about mere "club" secrets.

I have also heard it explained that Masons hold and "protect" certain "higher knowledge," which is associated with the degrees of advancement. And otherwise known as "The Craft." This is supposed to be used to help people.

The "word on the street" is, what many people don't know, that around a hundred and fifty years ago, all the 33 degree Masons died, and all that were left were a few 6th and 7th degrees. And then someone who was Jesuit educated came along, and "helped them out," by providing his version of those higher degrees. So you are right. It's not like it used to be.

P.S. Although the public has, indeed, elected idiots---it's not those idiots who have been deciding what the government will tell us to do.

 

[sgtfda]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Any of you guys have a opinion on Chuck Crawford and the Peralta stones. Any opinion on his involvement with the Holy Stones. Don't read anything into my asking. Just something I ran into on the net. It does look a little out there but appears as a Crawford package.

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Any of you guys have a opinion on Chuck Crawford and the Peralta stones. Any opinion on his involvement with the Holy Stones. Don't read anything into my asking. Just something I ran into on the net. It does look a little out there but appears as a Crawford package.

sgtfda---

If you read the Original Post in this topic, you will see that your last post belongs in one of the other threads about the Stone Maps, as this one is about just the Stones, themselves.

Thanks.

 

[starman 1]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Somehiker,

There have always been four trail maps. The discussion of these maps have been a part of this dialogue for several years. Two trail maps were left in monuments on the higher elevations of Boulder Canyon. Prior to the monuments being destroyed they were switched and another group used the bogus maps for sometime looking for the end of the trail on Mailaipi. That search gave us time to take care of unfinished business without interference.

Once that business was concluded the only thing left was to decide the status of Oz. That was settled rather recently.

This is not about story`s or silliness. It has been about the preservation of the history of a people. That has been accomplished. Actually I could care less about what you believe. I do care that someone on this site demonstrates the ability to think. That is why I posted here. To encourage that thinking.

The Trail Maps that are in the public view still tell a story to one who will see the story. It is obvious the maps were created by a woman. It is obvious that symbols on the map relate to a dead language. A language that is carved in the walls of the other.

Why do people see a 3 instead of a m it is because that is what they are prepared to see. Ancient latin on a trail map? That is about as preposterous as Hebrew carved on the wall of a cave on Bluff Springs Mountain. Or is it?

So what is the truth? It sits in a museum in South Africa. The real Tucson Artifacts sit in the underground workings of Calalus that exist not far from Wickenburg Arizona. The rest of the truth sits under tons of rubble under Coronado Mesa. A tribute to stupidity.

I am not sure of what your offer is I have never seen it, and really it does not matter. The only areas of interest to our people now is in Eldorado Canyon and Southern Utah.

Good luck in your searches.

Roy,

Interesting set of alternatives you present. Let`s say I prefer neither. What you suggest is as silly as handing out speading tickets at the Indy 500. What goes on in the Superstitions stays in the Superstitions.

I always felt Fish Creek Canyon was a good place to discover who your really are. There is a truth there that is very old and ancient. A starburst monumented trial that heads west and a battleground where hundreds died over a thousand years ago. We care for it as best we can. The folks who died there died for what is best in all of us. I sometimes think that is what I find beautiful there. Folks who gave everything so a few could escape to Eldorado Canyon and beyond. Martin

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Wayne,

Back when Ben was only posting as Late49er, he posted this picture as part of the underground complex that included OZ in the Superstitions:

I did a short Internet search on El Dorado Canyon in Nevada and found the exact picture advertising a tourist attraction.....old mine. Ben had quickly removed the picture from the LDM Forum, as well as deleting the post.

http://eldoradocanyonminetours.com/

It's been a fun ride, as Ben has quite an imagination.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Starman <Martin> wrote

Roy,

Interesting set of alternatives you present. Let`s say I prefer neither. What you suggest is as silly as handing out speading tickets at the Indy 500. What goes on in the Superstitions stays in the Superstitions.

I always felt Fish Creek Canyon was a good place to discover who your really are. There is a truth there that is very old and ancient. A starburst monumented trial that heads west and a battleground where hundreds died over a thousand years ago. We care for it as best we can. The folks who died there died for what is best in all of us. I sometimes think that is what I find beautiful there. Folks who gave everything so a few could escape to Eldorado Canyon and beyond. Martin

Well Martin your evasive answer here pretty well seals the case. As for my questions being "silly as handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500" you are very mistaken here, the authorities take looting, theft and smuggling very serious regardless of where they should occur, and you were referring to the Calalus artifacts which were not found near the Superstitions. If they were really stolen from the museum in Tucson, it is a felony, and smuggling them out of the country violates international law. To conceal the identities of persons having committed such crimes is in itself a crime, so if you are really telling the truth, you should contact the authorities immediately or risk prison yourself. On the other hand, spreading tall tales is no crime, but when such tall tales are resulting in the deaths of inexperienced hikers in the Superstitions, it crosses a line with me.

You could not be more mistaken about what I was looking for in Fish creek canyon. I was looking for a missing person, not anything else. It was not my first hike up it, so I knew what to expect. There is nothing up that canyon that is worth the hike (and danger of broken bones) to anyone, not even very good scenery as the canyon walls are so steep you get the view of a slot. There may well be some ancient Amerindian symbols or relics up in that place, I could not say for certain, but it is not a place I would go telling people that there were great ancient battles or treasure signs etc as it simply isn't true. Ask the Forest Service if you doubt my word - they do not make it secret where there are ancient Hohokam sites. Or go take the hike up there yourself (dear reader) but don't blame me when you break your leg, or your neck for I warned you it is a difficult, dangerous canyon with no redeeming features. Martin you never answered my question about how you heard of my visit to Fish Creek canyon?

As for Hebrew signs on Bluff Spring mountain - please, let us not start sending our readers up there now? If you post some photos to substantiate this story then I have no problems with your hinting that people should go look at them, but otherwise this is just so much more smoke being blown, another false story being circulated. Besides, there have been too many persons making FAKE carvings and signs in the Superstitions for SO long, anything found there must be viewed with even greater skepticism and caution than were it found anywhere else.

Good luck and good hunting Martin, I hope you find the treasures that you seek, and that you will not continue to lure our readers (many of whom never post) into very difficult and dangerous sites in the Superstitions without anything to substantiate your stories. At least show them a few photos so they won't break their necks looking for a made up fiction. I am sorry if this post seems blunt or harsh but good people have died in the Superstitions and some part of the blame for their deaths can be laid at the door of these tall tales that get circulated along with satellite images.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

For anyone interested, a good deal of Ben's story can be found in this topic:

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=942&hilit=Eldorado+Canyon

Don't be fooled by the different names posting, as it is likely they are all Ben Davis.

Enjoy,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Roy,

Very good post, and it adds a lot to the story of Ben Davis. It's all smoke without a bit of substance beyond that.

Take care,

Joe

 

[starman 1]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Roy,

If you are interested in the Hebrew markings in a cave on Bluff Spring Mountain you might want to dig a little deeper. There are references to it in the popular press. In fact a rather well known local has even mentioned it. An astute investigator should be able to locate it. Of course the cave is no longer accessable.

I only indicated why I go to Fish Creek Canyon. Why you go there is your business. What is beautiful there exists whether anyone appreciates it or not. Maybe you were there confirming the location of Atlantis. You did say you know where it is didn`t you?

As far as our friends in Tucson go, I imagine the switch was accomplished before the museum even received the artifacts. If you are interested you should again do a little homework and look into the history of the artifacts before assuming your position.

Since you do not believe any of this is real why get so upset. Obviously a plane load of historical artifacts from a mythical place in the Superstitions, Oz, could never have left the Phoenix Airport and flown all the way to South Africa. On the other hand if such a flight did take place and the relics were the few remaining remains of a people who lost so much I would not get so upset. I suspect the gold and copper plates mentioned before were on that flight also. Seems you may have been closer to the truth of Atlantis than you suspect.

Mr. Ribaudo,

At least you have evolved from shooting folks in the back as they exit the bar to simply mis-representing and confusing facts to fit your pre-conceived notion of your reality of the moment. The picture you show is still posted on the LDM website in an album labeled old pictures. Beneath the picture is the comment, "Oz2 is in the same mineral formation as the techatticup mine...Posting pictures of Oz 1 right now is simply too risky." What is amazing is your ignoring the etching of a beautiful young lady that was also posted in the album and the comment, "without you my dear none of this matters. Hard to believe a woman, a opera house, and a ancient Roman holy place in the Superstitions would have so much in commen" You see Mr. Ribaudo a beautiful woman is the creator of the trail maps. Martin

 

[Springfield]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Roy,

If you are interested in the Hebrew markings in a cave on Bluff Spring Mountain you might want to dig a little deeper. There are references to it in the popular press. In fact a rather well known local has even mentioned it. An astute investigator should be able to locate it. Of course the cave is no longer accessable.

I only indicated why I go to Fish Creek Canyon. Why you go there is your business. What is beautiful there exists whether anyone appreciates it or not. Maybe you were there confirming the location of Atlantis. You did say you know where it is didn`t you?

As far as our friends in Tucson go, I imagine the switch was accomplished before the museum even received the artifacts. If you are interested you should again do a little homework and look into the history of the artifacts before assuming your position.

Since you do not believe any of this is real why get so upset. Obviously a plane load of historical artifacts from a mythical place in the Superstitions, Oz, could never have left the Phoenix Airport and flown all the way to South Africa. On the other hand if such a flight did take place and the relics were the few remaining remains of a people who lost so much I would not get so upset. I suspect the gold and copper plates mentioned before were on that flight also. Seems you may have been closer to the truth of Atlantis than you suspect.

Mr. Ribaudo,

At least you have evolved from shooting folks in the back as they exit the bar to simply mis-representing and confusing facts to fit your pre-conceived notion of your reality of the moment. The picture you show is still posted on the LDM website in an album labeled old pictures. Beneath the picture is the comment, "Oz2 is in the same mineral formation as the techatticup mine...Posting pictures of Oz 1 right now is simply too risky." What is amazing is your ignoring the etching of a beautiful young lady that was also posted in the album and the comment, "without you my dear none of this matters. Hard to believe a woman, a opera house, and a ancient Roman holy place in the Superstitions would have so much in commen" You see Mr. Ribaudo a beautiful woman is the creator of the trail maps. Martin

I love it when people speak in innuendos and vague references. It's a red flag that indicates weakness of their arguments and it's an invitation to ignore. Now, when theorists present direct, clear arguments, whether the ideas hold water or not, it's an indication that the presenter is serious enough to put out an idea at least worth hearing. What about you, starman? What exactly is your revelation? If you have something direct and clear to announce, then get with it. If you prefer to talk in riddles, then all you're doing is holding up the 'Me, me, me' sign. Nobody cares about the 'I've got a secret' approach. At least the mormon convict Kerry Boren wrote about specifics, giving the reader a chance to evaluate.

 

[starman 1]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Mr. Ribaudo,

I should not share this with you but why not.

The heart in Boulder Canyon is not important because of the mineral vein in close proximity or the trinkets that have been discovered there or the oil based substance there identical to the substance found on the Tucson Artifacts. What is important there is the burial site of for a lack of a better word the husband of the lady who created the Trail Maps. The head stone reads in hebrew, "May the stars shine brightly on this spot and keep you safe" The folks who ventured into the Superstitions in search of the holy mine were from the middle east. They were sent there by a family. After burying her husband, her heart, she and several others created the monuments, high above Boulder Canyon, left two trail maps in them and left America.

Perhaps you would do better spending less time calling folks liars and spend more time trying to understand the truth of what you have been given. After all you have known the truth since your discoveries in Boulder Canyon. The Heart was only a small part of what is there and we all know it.

Martin

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Ben,

It was Little Boulder Canyon not Boulder Canyon.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Why do people say that something is much too precious or risky to talk about, then make a dozen or more posts, talking about it?