The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

Do you think the Peralta stone maps are genuine, or fake?


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cactusjumper

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Dec 10, 2005
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Oro,

You have got the story so wrong, and your argument as to why he didn't sell them while alive smells! ;D ;D Sounds to me like you are backpedalling?

Admit it! You were mistaken about nobody knowing who found the stones. You were mistaken about there being no Peraltas mining in the Superstitions (I still have to post that evidence). Here's a little teaser about the Peraltas:

"(condensed version) In September of 1864, Antonio Pablo Peralta and his son filed a virgin mining claim on a mine they called "The Valenciana" in the Bradshaw Mountains. The Valenciana was a rich gold mine yielding $35,000 in just over a year. however, it was in a remote area, and Apaches stole their horses and mules three times, and harrassed the miners so much that they abandoned the mine." Arizona Miner, Prescott, Nov 15th 1868. The mine was located on the slopes of Black Mesa, and it was a chimney deposit of gold in a grayish-white quartz. Now, granted, this was after the time in question, but the Peraltas DID mine gold in the area. Proof of the Peraltas in the 1840s time frame to come (I just don't feel like typing all that crap right now).

Your arguments against what I have posted sound as weak as the Democrats' saying that they are stronger on National Security than the Repubs! ;D ;D ;D PLEASE! Go back and reread your arguments!

No, he found them all at the same time. I have read a couple of versions of the story, but in TE Glover's book, he gives the firsthand account from Travis' brother Robert (who helped him dig them up). When you say he found them one per year, that can't be correct. LOOK AT THE PICTURE OF TWO (MAYBE THREE) OF THE STONES ON HIS FRONT BUMPER! That picture was taken at the time he found the stones.

Your idea as to why he didn't sell the stones while alive is TOTAL BS! Why would he risk his wife going to jail? Why go to all that work for something he would never realize a penny from in his life? Doesn't make much sense. He went to Az EVERY year for his vacation until his health deteriorated too much to continue, at which time he gave his brother the stones. His brother only got to go out a few times (after he got a partner). He used to hang around a local bar in Oregon, and talk about nothing but how he was going to find the Dutchman's Mine. Year after year. So much so, that they nicknamed him "Hardrock". He had little money, and no experience in desert hunting. He kept the stones under his bed. He finally showed them to his landlord, and went to the Superstitions a few times, but had no luck (doesn't sound like a hoaxer to me). When he became too ill to continue, he gave the stones back to his brother, who soon died. His wife sold the stones after his death, and died herself two years later.

Charlie Miller (you might have heard that name), was the one who helped Tumlinson clean off the stones. He told Al Reser and Don Shade (I KNOW you've heard of them) that when they were cleaning off the stones, they still had little roots growing in the grooves.



Use your own! THEY WERE BURIED UNDERGROUND! I think that would have protected them quite well from the elements.

Also; if they didn't exist, then just who did all those bones belong to on the massacre grounds in PERALTA CANYON? The story goes that there was one survivor of the massacre who made it back to the hacienda in Sonora. His name was Pedro peralta. Please look below, and may I introduce you to Senor Pedro Peralta (looks like he picked up a whopper of a scar on his right cheek)!

Mike

Mike,

Hope all is well with you.

Considering all that has come out in recent months, do you still stand by this rather positive post? Weathering is definitely a red flag for me. While one side shows clear, concise lettering, the other side is heavily weathered. Unless that particular stone was found lying on top of the ground, I would suspect it was artificially weathered. My conclusion is that the stones were created to deceive.

Take care,

Joe
 

Matthew Roberts

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Apr 27, 2013
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Terrible, senseless shooting today at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas. Reports so far of over 20 people killed and many others wounded.
Prayers go out for all the victims of this horrible crime and their families.
Sutherland Springs is just 5 miles outside of Stockdale, Texas the former home of Travis and Aleen Tumlinson.
 

motel6.5

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I live in Las vegas,NV,just 15 minutes from the mass shooting, people that live here are still in shock,they have changed their lifestyle,more are carrying guns openly,their is no trust in the Gov,peroid, its like mass shooting is the new normal.A lot think the Sheriff,Lombardo was threatened to comply with a set story,have been rumors to that from other law enforcement personnel...My prayers to Texas victams.
 

txtea

Full Member
Nov 16, 2009
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Yea it's surreal down here in S Texas right now. I live about 30 miles from this church.
Just drove thru Sutherland Springs last week on the way to Rockport, to see the devastation down there from the hurricane..lots of cleaning and rebuilding to do yet.
My heart goes out to all those affected by this senseless tragedy.
 

coazon de oro

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Prayers ascending to Heaven for all fellow Texans who were victims of yesterdays insanity in Sutherland Springs.

Homar
 

deducer

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I live in Las vegas,NV,just 15 minutes from the mass shooting, people that live here are still in shock,they have changed their lifestyle,more are carrying guns openly,their is no trust in the Gov,peroid, its like mass shooting is the new normal.A lot think the Sheriff,Lombardo was threatened to comply with a set story,have been rumors to that from other law enforcement personnel...My prayers to Texas victams.

More guns are not the answer.

America now has more guns than people.

Yet, the number of mass shootings has exploded in the last decade. 2017 is not even over, yet it is already the worst year in the number of mass shootings, ever.
 

azdave35

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Dec 19, 2008
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More guns are not the answer.

America now has more guns than people.

Yet, the number of mass shootings has exploded in the last decade. 2017 is not even over, yet it is already the worst year in the number of mass shootings, ever.
it has nothing to do with how many guns we have in this country....the main problem this country has is mental illness...and everyone trying to self medicate with street drugs (and the past 10 years prescription drugs) ..if you took all the guns the maniacs would just kill each other with claw hammers or rocks
 

Treasure_Hunter

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Gentlemen, we have a politics forum if you want to discuss gun laws.
 

Gary_Herndon

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Oct 5, 2017
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Oroblanco,

Well to tell you the truth I believe Tom Kollenborn to be a little "touched" to begin with and the Peralta or Jesuit Stones are quite REAL !! After being a Dutch Hunter for over 35 years and researching the entire Superstition Wilderness area, I trashed all my research because I ended up with the same conclusion as everyone else.... Nothing Panned out. After 3 months and looking in other areas, I have found the Peralta / Jesuit Mines, The correct North Trending Canyon, The Fresco Canon, The Heart with a Cross in it with a Knife all carved in Stone in a wash and other wonderful treats that I have searched high and low for. 4 primary locations in all which includes the Dutchman Mine. I will be returning to Arizona in the Spring to venture out to these locations. And I'm going to get a Profit since I spent so many years dealing with nothing.
 

Doc4261

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Nov 5, 2015
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Oroblanco,

Well to tell you the truth I believe Tom Kollenborn to be a little "touched" to begin with and the Peralta or Jesuit Stones are quite REAL !! After being a Dutch Hunter for over 35 years and researching the entire Superstition Wilderness area, I trashed all my research because I ended up with the same conclusion as everyone else.... Nothing Panned out. After 3 months and looking in other areas, I have found the Peralta / Jesuit Mines, The correct North Trending Canyon, The Fresco Canon, The Heart with a Cross in it with a Knife all carved in Stone in a wash and other wonderful treats that I have searched high and low for. 4 primary locations in all which includes the Dutchman Mine. I will be returning to Arizona in the Spring to venture out to these locations. And I'm going to get a Profit since I spent so many years dealing with nothing.



U are right on the 4 locations the h/p map shows 5 , but 1 is the same on both.
 

OP
OP
Oroblanco

Oroblanco

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Oroblanco,

Well to tell you the truth I believe Tom Kollenborn to be a little "touched" to begin with and the Peralta or Jesuit Stones are quite REAL !! After being a Dutch Hunter for over 35 years and researching the entire Superstition Wilderness area, I trashed all my research because I ended up with the same conclusion as everyone else.... Nothing Panned out. After 3 months and looking in other areas, I have found the Peralta / Jesuit Mines, The correct North Trending Canyon, The Fresco Canon, The Heart with a Cross in it with a Knife all carved in Stone in a wash and other wonderful treats that I have searched high and low for. 4 primary locations in all which includes the Dutchman Mine. I will be returning to Arizona in the Spring to venture out to these locations. And I'm going to get a Profit since I spent so many years dealing with nothing.

Well good luck to you, hope you will keep us posted with your finds.

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
 

Carl995

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Oroblanco,

Well to tell you the truth I believe Tom Kollenborn to be a little "touched" to begin with and the Peralta or Jesuit Stones are quite REAL !! After being a Dutch Hunter for over 35 years and researching the entire Superstition Wilderness area, I trashed all my research because I ended up with the same conclusion as everyone else.... Nothing Panned out. After 3 months and looking in other areas, I have found the Peralta / Jesuit Mines, The correct North Trending Canyon, The Fresco Canon, The Heart with a Cross in it with a Knife all carved in Stone in a wash and other wonderful treats that I have searched high and low for. 4 primary locations in all which includes the Dutchman Mine. I will be returning to Arizona in the Spring to venture out to these locations. And I'm going to get a Profit since I spent so many years dealing with nothing.

Gary, I think it's neat you found what your looking for, most stick to their first ideas so much that that's what they believe in and nothing can change their minds. 35 years, sounds like it became your hobby or obsession. My dad tried to do it the right/legal way & ended up with nothing, well he did get to live a long life, that's a treasure in itself. Carrol 3rd
 

cactusjumper

Gold Member
Dec 10, 2005
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Oroblanco,

Well to tell you the truth I believe Tom Kollenborn to be a little "touched
" to begin with and the Peralta or Jesuit Stones are quite REAL !! After being a Dutch Hunter for over 35 years and researching the entire Superstition Wilderness area, I trashed all my research because I ended up with the same conclusion as everyone else.... Nothing Panned out. After 3 months and looking in other areas, I have found the Peralta / Jesuit Mines, The correct North Trending Canyon, The Fresco Canon, The Heart with a Cross in it with a Knife all carved in Stone in a wash and other wonderful treats that I have searched high and low for. 4 primary locations in all which includes the Dutchman Mine. I will be returning to Arizona in the Spring to venture out to these locations. And I'm going to get a Profit since I spent so many years dealing with nothing.

Mr. Herndon,

Tom Kollenborn has helped many Dutch Hunters, and has a LOT of friends . I count myself as one of those people. We would all be fortunate to be as touched as he has been. Compared to Tom Kollenborn, you and I are just "babies" in the Superstitions, and I have searched in those mountains for 59 years. The man deserves more respect than you are showing.

Joe Ribaudo
 

gollum

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Mike,

Hope all is well with you.

Considering all that has come out in recent months, do you still stand by this rather positive post? Weathering is definitely a red flag for me. While one side shows clear, concise lettering, the other side is heavily weathered. Unless that particular stone was found lying on top of the ground, I would suspect it was artificially weathered. My conclusion is that the stones were created to deceive.

Take care,

Joe

Hey Joe,

We missed you and Carolyn at the Rendezvous. Hope all is well with both of you. All we had was Wayne's Chili and Schoose's Fireball (and a bunch of great stories after)! HAHAHA

To answer your question, yes. I have changed my position on the Stone Maps to a degree. I believe now, that it is more than likely than not that Travis Tumlinson made them, and I will even concede that he MAY HAVE made them to deceive (MAY HAVE).

My quandary is still the same:

1. If they were hoaxed, why is it that Bob Garman met Travis and Robert in the mountains several times? If he had made them to deceive, he didn't tell his uncle. Robert went to his grave believing in their authenticity (his interviews with Dick Peck's Investigators show it). Robert did go to the Supers several times with his landlord trying to decipher the Stone Maps. Travis loaned the Stone Maps to his Uncle in about 1956, when he first became ill. When he recovered somewhat, he had to use a gun (AIUI) to get the Stone Maps back from Uncle Robert. This was what caused the rift between Travis and Robert that was so bad, Robert didn't find out until 1965 that Travis had died in 1961. Where were all those relatives in Texas that now say they watched Travis carve the Stone Maps when Robert was "wasting" his time trying to solve them? Why didn't they warn their relative? Why did Janie say to me with no doubt in her mind that "MY DAD WAS NEVER IN ANY WAY PART OF ANY HOAX!"?

2. Not one person has come forward and stated that Travis had tried to sell them the Stone Maps. The only proven offer of sale was that to Clarence Mitchell after Travis died. Mitchell had offered them to Dick Peck as well, but that had nothing to do with Travis, and was long after his death.

THAT SAID, If I were one to cast aspersions, I have come up with a theory as to how the Stone Maps may have been made to deceive;

Imagine all those times Bob Garman ran into Travis and Robert in the mountains, they weren't trying to solve the Stone Maps?!?! What if they were constructing a false history to support the Stone Maps? Travis WAS an accomplished stone carver. Maybe some of those signs in the rocks by Whitlow and Millsite Canyons were carved by Travis? Maybe Michael Bilbrey actually found the Stone Crosses at the base of Tortilla Mountain, but what if Travis and Robert placed them there to be found?

See, the Stone Maps all by themselves would be very interesting, but with no provenance (documented history or historical mentions), their monetary value would only be SO MUCH. Now, imagine that the Stone Maps were known. Then things were found in the mountains whose markings matched those on the Stone Maps. Say those things were found by people with NO CONNECTION to the Tumlinsons. That would add to the value of the Stone Maps GREATLY! So, what if Travis planted the Stone Crosses and the Latin Heart (and maybe even more that haven't been found yet). Imagine if he held on to the Stone Maps. Never tried to sell them, and only appeared to have been trying to solve them. He LOOKS completely guilt free, and instead of being worth a few thousand dollars, the Stone Maps would have been worth millions. Maybe cancer screwed up his plans to get rich. MAYBE!

Just a theory. Although there is an historical precedent. James Addison Reavis did EXACTLY THAT in order to defraud the State of Arizona. Think Tumlinson may have read a story or two about that subject and tried to emulate?

Mike

PS

I agree that Tom Kollenborn is deserving of a lot more respect than Gary Herndon has shown. The one thing we can rest assured of is the fact that people like him will come and go, and nobody will ever remember their names, while Tom and his good name will endure forever. ITs a funny thing, all the people I know that know Tom don't have a bad word to say about him. The only people that trash talk the man don't know him. HHHMMMMMMMMMM?
 

Last edited:

azdave35

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Dec 19, 2008
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Hey Joe,

We missed you and Carolyn at the Rendezvous. Hope all is well with both of you. All we had was Wayne's Chili and Schoose's Fireball (and a bunch of great stories after)! HAHAHA

To answer your question, yes. I have changed my position on the Stone Maps to a degree. I believe now, that it is more than likely than not that Travis Tumlinson made them, and I will even concede that he MAY HAVE made them to deceive (MAY HAVE).

My quandary is still the same:

1. If they were hoaxed, why is it that Bob Garman met Travis and Robert in the mountains several times? If he had made them to deceive, he didn't tell his uncle. Robert went to his grave believing in their authenticity (his interviews with Dick Peck's Investigators show it). Robert did go to the Supers several times with his landlord trying to decipher the Stone Maps. Travis loaned the Stone Maps to his Uncle in about 1956, when he first became ill. When he recovered somewhat, he had to use a gun (AIUI) to get the Stone Maps back from Uncle Robert. This was what caused the rift between Travis and Robert that was so bad, Robert didn't find out until 1965 that Travis had died in 1961. Where were all those relatives in Texas that now say they watched Travis carve the Stone Maps when Robert was "wasting" his time trying to solve them? Why didn't they warn their relative? Why did Janie say to me with no doubt in her mind that "MY DAD WAS NEVER IN ANY WAY PART OF ANY HOAX!"?

2. Not one person has come forward and stated that Travis had tried to sell them the Stone Maps. The only proven offer of sale was that to Clarence Mitchell after Travis died. Mitchell had offered them to Dick Peck as well, but that had nothing to do with Travis, and was long after his death.

THAT SAID, If I were one to cast aspersions, I have come up with a theory as to how the Stone Maps may have been made to deceive;

Imagine all those times Bob Garman ran into Travis and Robert in the mountains, they weren't trying to solve the Stone Maps?!?! What if they were constructing a false history to support the Stone Maps? Travis WAS an accomplished stone carver. Maybe some of those signs in the rocks by Whitlow and Millsite Canyons were carved by Travis? Maybe Michael Bilbrey actually found the Stone Crosses at the base of Tortilla Mountain, but what if Travis and Robert placed them there to be found?

See, the Stone Maps all by themselves would be very interesting, but with no provenance (documented history or historical mentions), their monetary value would only be SO MUCH. Now, imagine that the Stone Maps were known. Then things were found in the mountains whose markings matched those on the Stone Maps. Say those things were found by people with NO CONNECTION to the Tumlinsons. That would add to the value of the Stone Maps GREATLY! So, what if Travis planted the Stone Crosses and the Latin Heart (and maybe even more that haven't been found yet). Imagine if he held on to the Stone Maps. Never tried to sell them, and only appeared to have been trying to solve them. He LOOKS completely guilt free, and instead of being worth a few thousand dollars, the Stone Maps would have been worth millions. Maybe cancer screwed up his plans to get rich. MAYBE!

Just a theory. Although there is an historical precedent. James Addison Reavis did EXACTLY THAT in order to defraud the State of Arizona. Think Tumlinson may have read a story or two about that subject and tried to emulate?

Mike

PS

I agree that Tom Kollenborn is deserving of a lot more respect than Gary Herndon has shown. The one thing we can rest assured of is the fact that people like him will come and go, and nobody will ever remember their names, while Tom and his good name will endure forever. ITs a funny thing, all the people I know that know Tom don't have a bad word to say about him. The only people that trash talk the man don't know him. HHHMMMMMMMMMM?

tom kollenborn has spent more time in the mountains than most and he knew all the old timers..he is definitely a wealth of information to anyone looking for the ldm
 

Doc4261

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Oroblanco,

Well to tell you the truth I believe Tom Kollenborn to be a little "touched" to begin with and the Peralta or Jesuit Stones are quite REAL !! After being a Dutch Hunter for over 35 years and researching the entire Superstition Wilderness area, I trashed all my research because I ended up with the same conclusion as everyone else.... Nothing Panned out. After 3 months and looking in other areas, I have found the Peralta / Jesuit Mines, The correct North Trending Canyon, The Fresco Canon, The Heart with a Cross in it with a Knife all carved in Stone in a wash and other wonderful treats that I have searched high and low for. 4 primary locations in all which includes the Dutchman Mine. I will be returning to Arizona in the Spring to venture out to these locations. And I'm going to get a Profit since I spent so many years dealing with nothing.


did it look like this? , the square one is the one by the Dutchman on the ridge of legend.all were marked by a shadow rock . View attachment 1523345 View attachment 1523346
 

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Doc4261

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Doc,

Nice pictures! It is possible to take some fairly clear pictures in the Superstitions:








Good Luck,

Joe Ribaudo



A little higher up that mtn to the south is the key to the h/p map. Nice pics though . thanks for sharing.
 

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