Springfield
Silver Member
gollum said:
Dotting the I's, crossing the T's. Good work.
The Peralta Stones
- Thread starter gollum
- Start date
Dotting the I's, crossing the T's. Good work.
Springfield
Silver Member
always lost said:
The Kensington Rune Stone, dated 1362 and possibly linked to Sir Henry Sinclair and the Knights Templar, as you say. I'm finally going to see it in person this week up in Alexandria, MN. They say it may be a legal land claim - thus the effort to discredit it as a fake. Recent scientific investigation presents a very strong case for the stone's authenticity.
Blindbowman
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Springfield said:
very well stated , and yes i agree , that s one of the reasons i could not rule out Templar knights having something to do with these stones ,, what if the tribes that left the fish nets in Utah were trading with the Templar and took the Templar to chicomoztoc ..
if the tribe was as great and as vast as they stated it was this makes good logic and you got to agree look at how the rune stone was found .almost the same way the Peralta stones were found ...could they have been put there in the same manner as in data or markers left behind ..
the dates are not right and i see Crystals moving the stones and why and where they came from the only real question is why were they made in the first place .. they have to be copies of older maps ..codex or other stone drawings , most likely but codex would be the most logical pattern why because of the chicomoztoc tribe drawing . it shows the chicomoztoc fighting with Spanish there is no question about if they are fakes or not , they have been dated and are are real and the codex defines the same guide lines as other history of the Peralta family and Spanish accounts .. and we know the word on the stones are not modern Spanish in fact they could be a early Portuguese..
that dates to around the time of the rune stones .. i rest my case ..few will agree . but it only takes the truth to convert the sinners ...lol
those that do not beleive i have found a link to the stones and the rune stones only need ask one question , was one of the Templar knights from of those 7 Portuguese.....? ask the hooked X
Blindbowman
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how about old Portigessecactusjumper said:
:Romance language spoken by about 170 million people in Portugal, Brazil, and other former Portuguese colonies. The first literary works in Portuguese date from the 13th – 14th century. Standard Portuguese is based on the dialect of Lisbon. Dialectal variation in Portugal is limited, but the differences between Brazilian and European Portuguese are more extensive, including changes in phonology, verb conjugation, and syntax. The four major dialect groups are Northern (Galician, spoken in northwestern Spain), Central, Southern (including the Lisbon dialect), and Insular (including Brazilian and Madeiran) Portuguese. maybe i am still guessing ...lol
mayi am sorry i cut and paste this but it will make it faster for you to under stand what i am researching
:Portuguese language, member of the Romance group of the Italic subfamily of the Indo-European family of languages (see Romance languages). It is the mother tongue of about 170 million people, chiefly in Portugal and the Portuguese islands in the Atlantic (11 million speakers); in Brazil (154 million speakers); and in Portugal's former overseas provinces in Africa and Asia-Angola, Cape Verde, East Timor, Guinea-Bissau, Mozambique, and São Tomé and Principe-(about 5 million speakers). (These nations are members of the Community of Portuguese-Speaking Countries, which was founded 1996.) Although the Portuguese spoken in Portugal differs to some extent from the Portuguese current in Brazil, with reference to pronunciation, grammar, and vocabulary, the differences are not major. The Portuguese spelling reform agreed to in 1990 simplifies the spelling of both Brazilian and European/African Portuguese, and greatly reduces the differences in orthography between the two forms. A distinctive phonetic feature of Portuguese is the nasalization of certain vowels and diphthongs, which can be indicated by a tilde (~) placed above the appropriate vowel. The acute (´) and circumflex (̂) accents serve to make clear both stress and pronunciation and also to distinguish homonyms (for example, e "and," but é "is"). The grave accent (`) is a guide to pronunciation. It can also indicate a contraction, as in às, which is a combination of a "to" and as "the" (feminine plural). A c with a cedilla (ç) is pronounced like c in English place when used before the vowels a, o, and u. As in Spanish, there are two forms of the verb "to be": ser, which denotes a comparatively permanent state and which also precedes a predicate noun, and estar, which denotes a comparatively temporary condition. Again like Spanish, Portuguese tends to use reflexive verbs instead of the passive voice. Historically, Portuguese, which developed from the Vulgar Latin (see Latin language) brought to the Iberian Peninsula by its Roman conquerors, could be distinguished from the parent tongue before the 11th cent. The Portuguese spoken in Lisbon and Coimbra gave rise to the Standard Portuguese of today. Although the greater part of the Portuguese vocabulary comes from Latin, a number of words have also been absorbed from Arabic, French, and Italian, and also from some of the indigenous South American and African languages.
"The grave accent (`)" now add it to the letter X
bingo grave markers remember my Vulgar latin link . i just had the wrong variation it was much older then I knew ..but it was Templar related
see its not a hooked X at all , we only see it as a hooked X in fact it is a acute X or grave X
and yes i do know the diffrence
Blindbowman
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no one under stood what i was talking about . i get that alot ...lol may be this will help
Stress
The grave accent marks the stressed vowel of a word in Catalan and Italian. Some examples from Italian are città "city", morì "[he/she] died", virtù "virtue", Mosè "Moses", portò "[he/she] brought, carried". Especially with capital letters, or when using a keyboard without accented letters, an apostrophe is sometimes used instead of it in Italian, thus E’ instead of È "[he/she/it] is", though this is considered (at least) inelegant and inaccurate (though the phrase un po’ meaning "a little" is infrequently spelt as un pò, because it's a truncated version of un poco).
In Italian there are pairs of words, one accented and the other not, with different pronunciation and meaning, such as pero "pear tree" and però "but", and papa "pope" and papà "dad" (the last example is also valid for Catalan).
you dont under stand it do you ..?
the letter X is not a letter . it is a grave accent marks but the X is a number , only the most highest edicated would know or under stand this type of writeing even back then , 1362 gives it away when you know what your looking for ..
as i stated in the Peralta stone the language is a early or old Portuguese, no one makeing a modern fake would even know this ..
often Vulgar Latin came from the Catalan and Italian and was as they say
Vulgar Latin (see Latin language) brought to the Iberian Peninsula by its Roman conquerors, could be distinguished from the parent tongue before the Vulgar Latin (see Latin language) brought to the Iberian Peninsula by its Roman conquerors, could be distinguished from the parent tongue before the 11th cent. The Portuguese spoken in Lisbon and Coimbra gave rise to the Standard Portuguese of today. Although the greater part of the Portuguese vocabulary comes from Latin, The Portuguese spoken in Lisbon and Coimbra gave rise to the Standard Portuguese of today. Although the greater part of the Portuguese vocabulary comes from Latin, now to under stand what i am saying .. the Peralta stones are not 1847 modern Spainish the wording is far older then the 1847 date . guess what , its not a date at all
fact !
these stones are real and they were copies of a much older sorce ...not the 1847 date . its not a date at all , these stones were copies from a older Templar rune stone set dated after the 11th cent most likely closer to the rune stone date of 1362 ...both share the same language & simbolics
Stress
The grave accent marks the stressed vowel of a word in Catalan and Italian. Some examples from Italian are città "city", morì "[he/she] died", virtù "virtue", Mosè "Moses", portò "[he/she] brought, carried". Especially with capital letters, or when using a keyboard without accented letters, an apostrophe is sometimes used instead of it in Italian, thus E’ instead of È "[he/she/it] is", though this is considered (at least) inelegant and inaccurate (though the phrase un po’ meaning "a little" is infrequently spelt as un pò, because it's a truncated version of un poco).
In Italian there are pairs of words, one accented and the other not, with different pronunciation and meaning, such as pero "pear tree" and però "but", and papa "pope" and papà "dad" (the last example is also valid for Catalan).
you dont under stand it do you ..?
the letter X is not a letter . it is a grave accent marks but the X is a number , only the most highest edicated would know or under stand this type of writeing even back then , 1362 gives it away when you know what your looking for ..
as i stated in the Peralta stone the language is a early or old Portuguese, no one makeing a modern fake would even know this ..
often Vulgar Latin came from the Catalan and Italian and was as they say
Vulgar Latin (see Latin language) brought to the Iberian Peninsula by its Roman conquerors, could be distinguished from the parent tongue before the Vulgar Latin (see Latin language) brought to the Iberian Peninsula by its Roman conquerors, could be distinguished from the parent tongue before the 11th cent. The Portuguese spoken in Lisbon and Coimbra gave rise to the Standard Portuguese of today. Although the greater part of the Portuguese vocabulary comes from Latin, The Portuguese spoken in Lisbon and Coimbra gave rise to the Standard Portuguese of today. Although the greater part of the Portuguese vocabulary comes from Latin, now to under stand what i am saying .. the Peralta stones are not 1847 modern Spainish the wording is far older then the 1847 date . guess what , its not a date at all
fact !
these stones are real and they were copies of a much older sorce ...not the 1847 date . its not a date at all , these stones were copies from a older Templar rune stone set dated after the 11th cent most likely closer to the rune stone date of 1362 ...both share the same language & simbolics
Blindbowman
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by the way , if you do not under stand yet
Pitch
The grave accent was first used in the polytonic orthography of Ancient Greek, where it occurred only on the last syllable of a word, in cases where the normal high pitch (indicated by an acute accent) was lowered because of a following word in the same sentence. Since Modern Greek has a stress accent instead of a pitch accent, this diacritic has been replaced with an acute accent mark in the modern monotonic orthography.
Phonetically, the grave accent originally marked a heavier and louder tone, as opposed to the acute accent that marked a sharp pitch. Visually as well, it is the exact opposite of the acute accent, being its mirror image. In nearly all fonts, the accent mark is similar to a top-heavy triangle with its sharp point extending rightwards.
"mirror image"
the Peralta map was copied from the same sorce ... thats why its not backwards , its inverse oppisite ,a mirror image...!
the words were add after by the preson who made the copy , they translated the words ot what they thaught were Spainish words ,, wrong it dose not work that way ...
caverna stands for calvary , and the arrow is "william sinclair" look on the handel of the dagger . see the D and then the arrow , sinclair is sending one of his men to that location .. see they did not know how to translate the language to modern Spainish ...so they did the best they could and then changed the map just enough to hide the truth in plane sight ..hopeing they could figer it out later in future ..
you saw the arrow on his familiy crest , its all over the stones
you see the priest stone look at the simbolics heart shape arrow , circle in a circle the cross in a cross . those are the other simbolics for the other knights you have to put your self back in the year of 1362 or around that date now take a new look at the stones .. sinclair was still guided by the church in 1362 the simbolics are like a diffrent language all to them selfs .. he tells us who was there and where they were sent and why ...he tells us they have calvary and points out what knight goes where ..how many simbolic are there 6
i really dont find it amuseing that the Peralta translated the codex into stone and had a very poor translation , but what can you do .. figer it out and go on with your life ..
Pitch
The grave accent was first used in the polytonic orthography of Ancient Greek, where it occurred only on the last syllable of a word, in cases where the normal high pitch (indicated by an acute accent) was lowered because of a following word in the same sentence. Since Modern Greek has a stress accent instead of a pitch accent, this diacritic has been replaced with an acute accent mark in the modern monotonic orthography.
Phonetically, the grave accent originally marked a heavier and louder tone, as opposed to the acute accent that marked a sharp pitch. Visually as well, it is the exact opposite of the acute accent, being its mirror image. In nearly all fonts, the accent mark is similar to a top-heavy triangle with its sharp point extending rightwards.
"mirror image"
the Peralta map was copied from the same sorce ... thats why its not backwards , its inverse oppisite ,a mirror image...!
the words were add after by the preson who made the copy , they translated the words ot what they thaught were Spainish words ,, wrong it dose not work that way ...
caverna stands for calvary , and the arrow is "william sinclair" look on the handel of the dagger . see the D and then the arrow , sinclair is sending one of his men to that location .. see they did not know how to translate the language to modern Spainish ...so they did the best they could and then changed the map just enough to hide the truth in plane sight ..hopeing they could figer it out later in future ..
you saw the arrow on his familiy crest , its all over the stones
you see the priest stone look at the simbolics heart shape arrow , circle in a circle the cross in a cross . those are the other simbolics for the other knights you have to put your self back in the year of 1362 or around that date now take a new look at the stones .. sinclair was still guided by the church in 1362 the simbolics are like a diffrent language all to them selfs .. he tells us who was there and where they were sent and why ...he tells us they have calvary and points out what knight goes where ..how many simbolic are there 6
i really dont find it amuseing that the Peralta translated the codex into stone and had a very poor translation , but what can you do .. figer it out and go on with your life ..
Loke
Hero Member
Nah - not really ... oh its an impressive list allright, but nothing earth-shattering (I wonder what your electricity bill is ...?)
Windows-7 is no surprise, but for someone obviously taken great pride in his system, I'm rather surprised that you are not running linux ... the same goes for the programming part which is really what I was most interested in (not your OS or drivers). You say you wrote the "logic code the system runs" yourself - in which case: Which programming language do you use? (This is why I asked about which _software_ you were using - guess I should've been more specific)
Care to enlighten us/me in that respect?
Per
ps If you are actually doing 'research projects' (as opposed to a hobby) and you are supposed to come up with reports, then I would strongly suggest that you use a spell-checker ...
Not to be impertinent, merely as a word of advice, you would be a laughing stock in academic circles if your spelling in this forum is typical. For this forum (or any other forum for that matter) it really doesn't matter, we can all 'read between the lines'. So please, do not take this up the wrong way - it is truly meant as a friendly advice ;-)
mrs.oroblanco
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Joe,
Late into the conversation, as usual, I think it is not only a good job for me, but, it is one I have already started. (very recently).
My biggest issue here with the "investigation" is simply this: There is absolutely NO WAY, that the Feds got a hold of the Stones UNLESS, there was paperwork to take those stones. Either a search warrant, or something. The government doesn't just go from "you are selling stocks without a license" to "here are the stones" without A) An investigation which = an investigative report, and B) receipts of confiscation and/or return
along with some sort of "reason" that they had for getting a search warrant or confiscating any type of materials of Mitchell. (maybe NOW they would do that, but this was pre-9/11, the SEC law was brand new in 1964, and they had to show some sort of "cause" to indicate the stones with either Moel or Mitchell.
Its time we knew.
Beth
Late into the conversation, as usual, I think it is not only a good job for me, but, it is one I have already started. (very recently).
My biggest issue here with the "investigation" is simply this: There is absolutely NO WAY, that the Feds got a hold of the Stones UNLESS, there was paperwork to take those stones. Either a search warrant, or something. The government doesn't just go from "you are selling stocks without a license" to "here are the stones" without A) An investigation which = an investigative report, and B) receipts of confiscation and/or return
along with some sort of "reason" that they had for getting a search warrant or confiscating any type of materials of Mitchell. (maybe NOW they would do that, but this was pre-9/11, the SEC law was brand new in 1964, and they had to show some sort of "cause" to indicate the stones with either Moel or Mitchell.
Its time we knew.
Beth
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Beth,
Knowing that you were familiar with the process, it was a no-brainer to suggest you were the person for the job. In that respect, I think it's right up Mike's alley as well.
I have never been able to follow the logic of the FBI being involved in any kind of testing of the stones. It would not surprise me to learn they were never in DC. I trust Bob's account completely, but wonder if he got the true story.
I have heard that the maps were never used to sell Moel stock. Their problems were with the SEC and not filing correctly. Don't believe there was any suspicion of fraud. I'm pretty far removed from that time, so I could be completely wrong.
On the other hand, I don't need to put any spin on what Bob wrote. I showed him what was being said, he told me his side, and I presented it all here........without any interpretation. I don't believe he will ever say I put any words in his mouth.
If the Stone Maps ever left Phoenix, there will be a paper trail. I have always believed that.
Take care,
Joe
Knowing that you were familiar with the process, it was a no-brainer to suggest you were the person for the job. In that respect, I think it's right up Mike's alley as well.
I have never been able to follow the logic of the FBI being involved in any kind of testing of the stones. It would not surprise me to learn they were never in DC. I trust Bob's account completely, but wonder if he got the true story.
I have heard that the maps were never used to sell Moel stock. Their problems were with the SEC and not filing correctly. Don't believe there was any suspicion of fraud. I'm pretty far removed from that time, so I could be completely wrong.
On the other hand, I don't need to put any spin on what Bob wrote. I showed him what was being said, he told me his side, and I presented it all here........without any interpretation. I don't believe he will ever say I put any words in his mouth.
If the Stone Maps ever left Phoenix, there will be a paper trail. I have always believed that.
Take care,
Joe
OP
OP
gollum
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mrs.oroblanco said:
Beth,
You need to reread that part of their history. The FBI having the stones had NOTHING to do with the SEC Investigation. I have stated that SEVERAL TIMES lately.
The SEC Case was in 1964, while the LAWSUIT was in 1968-1969. That was also the time frame Corbin met the FBI Agent and saw the stones, and that was also when the stones were donated to the Museum.
Best-Mike
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gollum
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Joe,
You, no doubt, have seen all the trial releases from the SEC and the trial results that were published by the SEC as well. It does not even mention the stones. Azmula has copies of MOEL's Prospectus' and other documents and he has told me the stones are not mentioned anywhere. I trust what he said to me.
Best-Mike
You, no doubt, have seen all the trial releases from the SEC and the trial results that were published by the SEC as well. It does not even mention the stones. Azmula has copies of MOEL's Prospectus' and other documents and he has told me the stones are not mentioned anywhere. I trust what he said to me.
Best-Mike
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Mike,
I believe that has been my position as well
??
Take care,
Joe
I believe that has been my position as well
??Take care,
Joe
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OP
gollum
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cactusjumper said:Mike,
I believe that has been my position as well
Take care,
Joe
No worries Joe.
Beth,
Like I stated previously; I already submitted a FOIA Request Sunday night. I should have heard something back within about a week. That's their usual time frame for response.
Best-Mike
Oroblanco
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Always Lost wrote
Well if you recall, our mutual amigo Don Jose' said this was an old Jesuit trick, mirror-image writing. I have not tried looking at the photos of the stones in mirror image (yet) but think the writing would not look right then, and might not even be readable.
One other thing amigo, whether Crystal ever had the stones in his possession or not, Tumlinson cleaned the stones quite heavily; we do not know what he used, it may have been soap, water and sponges, or it might have been an electric drill and sander - either way, cleaning it has vastly reduced the chances of being able to obtain an accurate age of the stone inscriptions by any vegetative growth that might have been in the actual grooves, since he cleaned it quite heavily. Just like the farmer cleaning out the Kensington rune stone with a nail removed a lot of evidence and added modern scratches in the old grooves, Tumlinson might have innocently removed any chance of ever getting a true age based on the roots or organic matter, even perhaps accretions. Too bad he cleaned it so thoroughly.
Oroblanco
Well if you recall, our mutual amigo Don Jose' said this was an old Jesuit trick, mirror-image writing. I have not tried looking at the photos of the stones in mirror image (yet) but think the writing would not look right then, and might not even be readable.
One other thing amigo, whether Crystal ever had the stones in his possession or not, Tumlinson cleaned the stones quite heavily; we do not know what he used, it may have been soap, water and sponges, or it might have been an electric drill and sander - either way, cleaning it has vastly reduced the chances of being able to obtain an accurate age of the stone inscriptions by any vegetative growth that might have been in the actual grooves, since he cleaned it quite heavily. Just like the farmer cleaning out the Kensington rune stone with a nail removed a lot of evidence and added modern scratches in the old grooves, Tumlinson might have innocently removed any chance of ever getting a true age based on the roots or organic matter, even perhaps accretions. Too bad he cleaned it so thoroughly.
Oroblanco
mrs.oroblanco
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No problem, Mike,
We will just have 2 copies.
Beth
We will just have 2 copies.
Beth
Blindbowman
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Oroblanco said:
that's just my point .. i have and the writing was added after , the stone maps were made first and the wording was added latter ,,
take a look , the i copied the maps and white out the words try it , it changes the whole meaning of the map, what is that they say , speak no evil ..most likely by the Peralta family members ..or someone that knew the area real well and spoke old Spanish
note i did say old Spanish..
lets say Crystal did not put the stones there . this would place them back to the Peralta family.we know there is a 1847 date if that's what it is , but can we place it back in the hands of the Peralta family at that date ..lets say we set the date a side for a few seconds . is there any other way to date them .. the writing ,, guess what . if the writing was added , that wont work will it .? now you know why i dated the working and the stones and maps drawing all at isolated levels ..so i could see if they were all scaled the same ..
Springfield
Silver Member
always lost said:
I fail to understand your 1362 link to the Peralta stones. For one thing, the Sinclair/Templar voyage occured a full 30 years later than the placing of the Kensington rune stone in present Minnesota in 1362. The Sinclair voyage is the earliest alleged Templar connection to North America and so far no evidence has been uncovered that placed the party beyond present New England.
I have no idea how Freddy Crystal would be involved with the Peralta stones, other than his soire into the Kanab, UT area in the early 20th century, allegedly tracking down 'Montezuma's treasure'. This was another hazy legend that put a lot of people in the hills with shovels, true - but nothing of importance was ever uncovered. Besides, it was in Utah, not Arizona. What exactly is the link?
Your scattergun approach to undocumented history may have actually have plunked a valid lead with the Chicomoztoc mention. Others have seriously investigated the possibility. Chicomoztoc was a place (Place of the Seven Caves), the alleged homeland of the Mexica in North America.
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Springfield,
You are correct that bb's "scattergun approach" sometimes bumps up against something that may be historically accurate. I am talking about little known history.
Aztecs in the area of the Superstitions is one such case. John Bourke wrote in his diaries of finding small "Aztec" style buildings close to the mountains and the Salt River. In fact, he drew a picture of one of the buildings/temple. I posted that information on this site earlier.
It is more likely that the buildings were built by the Hohokam and Salado.
A search should turn up the post.
Take care,
Joe
You are correct that bb's "scattergun approach" sometimes bumps up against something that may be historically accurate. I am talking about little known history.
Aztecs in the area of the Superstitions is one such case. John Bourke wrote in his diaries of finding small "Aztec" style buildings close to the mountains and the Salt River. In fact, he drew a picture of one of the buildings/temple. I posted that information on this site earlier.
It is more likely that the buildings were built by the Hohokam and Salado.
A search should turn up the post.
Take care,
Joe
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
HIU Joe: I can't find it in my files right now, but don't forget the American that found a slight depression and upon excavating found an inclined tunnel which led to a shaft with a spiral step system. On the roof was carved an Aztec head.
After cleaning out debris to the bottom of the shaft , they could no longer continue because of insufficient ventilation, word was let out, and the Gov't closed the area off. There was a lot of night activity . The FBI was involved and took many pictures of recovered objects, among which were three that were of the north Western Indian tribes ?? A Raven, Seal, and another which I can't remember. He managed to get photographs of them which he sent to me.
He was never allowed to see what was recovered from the bottom of the shaft where it turned into another tunnel.
He did say that he was very disgusted, and when later he found a similar spot, he never mentioned it, but was biding his time to excavate it himself.
Strange things have happened in the Supers.
Don Jose de La Mancha
After cleaning out debris to the bottom of the shaft , they could no longer continue because of insufficient ventilation, word was let out, and the Gov't closed the area off. There was a lot of night activity . The FBI was involved and took many pictures of recovered objects, among which were three that were of the north Western Indian tribes ?? A Raven, Seal, and another which I can't remember. He managed to get photographs of them which he sent to me.
He was never allowed to see what was recovered from the bottom of the shaft where it turned into another tunnel.
He did say that he was very disgusted, and when later he found a similar spot, he never mentioned it, but was biding his time to excavate it himself.
Strange things have happened in the Supers.
Don Jose de La Mancha
