THE Random Chat Thread - AKA "The RCT" - No shirt or shoes required - Open 24 / 7

releventchair

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Thanks Rook, finding old places along the river isnt as easy as finding home sites on a map, any of you guys have any recommendations to finding fur trade sites?

A forum member found a site......I write that to encourage you.

You're in a region that should relate to a certain area just S.E. of you (depending where in the thumb you are , I really don't want to know for your sake /internet allowing locating your areas of endeavor..) where natives acquired a better lithic material than many other areas.
That is pre fur trade , but does not ignore previous routes.

Waterways and their deltas could be traveled. Food and water.
Vantage points for campsites were not just anywhere , and often used repeatedly.
River forks , creek meets river or similar saw consistent use when travel routes were established.

Spring high water changes things.
I'd be looking for high ground near a waterways junctions in a long running drainage...(travel route running N.S. a long ways for example) where a free trapper could sneak in early.
Natives were willing to travel. Your areas history of forts , and trading posts will relate to eras when they were active.
Era too can affect who it was supplying the goods.
IF for example an alliance was altered , French or English could be the destination for doing some business. Or a tribe in charge of a regions trade.
Who went where (natives going to a fort or major trade hub ,or traders visiting natives, or a native nation in charge of trade being a middleman so to speak...)

Natives traveled. A lot sometimes for varied reasons with warring factions a part of it at times.
Wisconsin to Detroit Mi. around the upper part of the lower penn. through the straits...
And there was a lower E.W. trail around the current MI. Indiana/Ohio border.
As with other ancient trails ,spurs split off and went elsewhere. Often following a drainage or similar geo. feature. More food on a summer river delta and in the river than in the pines or oaks...

Find the trails nearest your hunting site. (Sadly many are paved due to the original good choices of ground and routes.)
Then use a map with good views of river drainage's to study where trail spurs of lesser than major travel could go.
Again higher ground but convenient to water. The vantage point of view/sight would depend on what grew there then , not now.
A forest could exist today where it was open ground then. Though that is likely an extreme example.

Creek meets river , river meets river ect. With a route going beyond it still along a waterway.
IF sniffing off such potential routes , give yourself a reason for cutting cross country first. It happened. But was well reasoned.

IF you can choose an era and figure out who was trading with whom , that's a start.
Then , who camped where , and coming and going from where to where?

An example can be the straits themselves. A huge example with many nations and cultures over the years. Both sides of the water depending on era chosen , with a revolving cast.
Everyone who wintered there came from somewhere originally. Where did they camp in their travels?
Depending on season , and if being pursued or at peace...Camps were chosen for good reason.
A good camp was used again.

An earthwork (really just a pile of soil) banked against a short wall like a palisade stood where two rivers meet a couple hours South of me.
About ten minutes away from me , at another earthwork (mound vs bank) similar enough relics were found that sure fit that place so far South.
N.S. route. Waterways /drainage's. Geo. features. People crossing trails deliberately.

Stuff is deep around me.
Eroded areas below former campsites or spring river flooding shuffles offer more chance of a relic than one on top of the ground.
Yet now and then someone just spies one. Not me though...

There were river valleys around here that saw more permanence than a camp for the night. Camp can mean far more than how much it was used and should probably mean ,why here?

I'm not sure what all went on with the thumb , but on the West side river valleys were certain in winter , but a migration/vacation to the big lake Michigan was a summer event for some/many. What route was taken from Grand Rapids to the big lake? Easy enough to figure/guess looking at a riverine map. Where were camps set up going back and forth? Ahhh. There's a river coming into this one we're following. Where would you camp?

Farther South , pottery making was on a bluff. Why there? Again , fully reasoned.
Farther South a fort. And a lost fort of the same name around there somewhere.

A freetrapper could and did sneak in at ice out through a drainage to an inland winter native camp. So claims the museum.
You know how spring can be.
Add the convenience of trade goods at your lodge after an isolated winter.


Ha! It's you again trapper , on yet another spring. Have not got caught yourself yet?
(The trapper/trader/man of many hats (and few legal ones) spreads a blanket out and dumps his trade stock on it.
You have your winters take of furs. The lady could stand something nice.Her eyes already told you that.
And whats that kettle made of?
You can lighten your load a few furs here and haul less elsewhere. Hmmm.
That's a nice French knife. Don't see them at the Englishman's post on the next river over.)

No , I don't need tobacco , but we can smoke some of yours first....
 

bill from lachine

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Toecutter and the rest of the crew,

Here's a video by one of our Canadian forum members. Chris he's made some great fur trade and archaic copper finds over the years.

 

pepperj

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Thanks for posting that video up Bill.

Have enjoyed looking at the great things Chris has found over the years. His knowledge on the subject matter is second to none.
 

bill from lachine

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Jim,

Yep he's one of the best ones around for those types of finds. Since you're a back to land type you can check out their facebook page also. It goes by the name All things wild they post wildlife pictures, some stuff about foraging, etc....
 

Rookster

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Missed a lot this morning. 2 road trips.


Good afternoon RR AND GB. We still have morning role call.:laughing7: GB it’s bad hot here too. RR, I’m guessing you guys are too.
 

RustyRelics

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Three hours walking for about 1/2 mile of riverbank. Nothing. Not even bottle pieces. That was a waste.
 

releventchair

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Three hours walking for about 1/2 mile of riverbank. Nothing. Not even bottle pieces. That was a waste.

You probably stepped on an amazing relic..:laughing7:

Hey , you got out. Congrats!

Trout fishing I hit a spot years ago I had not visited before that is downstream of a popular takeout at a livery/canoe/tube rental place.
What a mess!
Parts of fishing rods even.
Did scrounge one intact old old bottle but the details of type escape me now.
Must have eroded out of a bank during spring flooding?

The river farther above seldom showed anything old for human stuff.
One spring a foothold trap jaw was sticking out of a bank where soil had fallen/eroded out.
I dug the trap out. It had been in "set" position. Mostly crumbly but the jaws helped i.d. it as last built around 1920.
Not very old ,right?
It was about three foot below ground level where exposed.
All the silt from spring flooding piling up on it over the years....
Not saying it had not been set below the bank at the time , like in a hole , but soil discoloration (except iron rust) did not exist around it.

A trap found in a creek far from there was well encrusted with mineral ,scale, hellgrammite pebbles and glue probably, ect.. Maybe 1 1/2 inches across the closed jaws where it should have been about 3/4 inch closed if clean?
I barely noted the D shape profile of the/a closed foothold trap. One of those times when eyes focused just right.
Gifted it to a trapper friend one holiday , and he shelved it for display. Till one day it got handled, dropped ; and it shattered...
 

Toecutter

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Thank you releventchair that helps alot... be the trapper...
 

Toecutter

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Great video bill thank you for sharing...
 

releventchair

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Thank you releventchair that helps alot... be the trapper...

Maybe.
Not a "company" man that worked for a company and was found at a post in present day populated areas we have trouble poking around ,let alone getting permissions , or those covered in concrete.
'Traders Row" in Detroit is a great example of no place for us to look around for a camp ,or even a relic normally...
I went in "Greektown" there. Didn't smell any furs. Not even ghosts of furs. Did do poorly at gambling though.

Those less know camps. Sites well away from cities ect. but purposeful in their existence might turn up a hunt-able site.

When the coureur des bois no longer worked the jagged line between countries and competing factions while at times quite in touch with native culture and habits , who followed suit? Not that it matters but the era had changed and French influence/design had too.
Yet there had been French "colonists" in/near Detroit that said the heck with this tryin to grow veggies ,there's furs to be had that ended up who knows where.

https://www.tfcg.ca/wood-runner-old-occupation

These guys had to be careful. Everyone did.
But they may have relished being out of the spotlight when around more "civilized" areas.
Their camps /campsites (in between where? and where?) can be expected to be similar to native sites. If not combined or near.
If you are miles out of town (for starters) the right sites might be unmolested.
Choice sites though were recognized by European folks as advantageous. Some just followed native use.
Polite permission seeking can be expected.
 

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Toecutter

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This where I'll be tomorrow, the pic is of 2 maps 1888 on top and 2005 on bottom, I think this is the closest home site next to the river Iv seen on state land..The road is all grown in I plan to locate the home site do a little detecting then check out the river...

river sted.PNG
 

releventchair

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Annd, now that I've tried to get Toecutter to focus on rivers creeks and riverine systems...

When I acquired this shack I started researching the area and surrounding areas histories for metal detecting.
Starting with oldest accounts I could find.

Native trail maps turned up a couple times. And were studied to tie in with the area North of me I was already familiar with.
A historical publication by a historical group a lady anchored had accounts of early "settlers" who started a community a few miles West of me.
A post civil war mention of a minor conflict (attitude mostly?) with natives grazing their ponies in a meadow with springs (and those springs were quite likely why the settler "possessed" the site.

Anyways , looking at the prior trails estimated location and directions , combined with all known water ,lakes ,springs , and considering the prior known region/areas to the North (distant small river a few miles away,It's history and where it connected to a bigger river and it's history ect..)
Told of more than the highly populated and traveled riverine system.
Yet they all tied together.

Dad told of a farmhouse (on another river) that natives using/passing through the river near it would use the front (?) room of at night. And be gone early morning.
Not sure how that came about as routine, but distance/time wise that could be a clue to stops above and below.
A site, (known or suspected) can be considered in relation to time and distance when traveling. Obviously having known stops to go by as examples helps.
Or , known objectives of travel.
Some better sites to stop at are just plain worth stopping at for their features or vantage.. That throws a wrench in the time/distance spectrum.
Less so though if the ends of travel are known. We're going to make it to the end destination tonight , or not. Where do we stop?
 

releventchair

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This where I'll be tomorrow, the pic is of 2 maps 1888 on top and 2005 on bottom, I think this is the closest home site next to the river Iv seen on state land..The road is all grown in I plan to locate the home site do a little detecting then check out the river...

View attachment 1850206

Below where that creek hits the river is worth a visual inspection.
The dry ground above the intersection with the detector.

I hit one old homestead on state land.Well , maybe a couple...
You'll probably do better...Did get one relic of note though.
 

Toecutter

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You certainly have me rethinking a few sites Iv suspected and found evidence of 1940s on up trash from hunting camps but a 2 of the places are vantage points and need to be thoroughly searched with a fur trade mind set...
 

RustyRelics

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One of the best WWII battle scenes ever made. The Shermans are the exact type of tank that fired my shell, and in fact are firing my kind of shell in this scene. Warning, coarse language.
 

releventchair

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Hey Rusty:
Picked up a book about Hobo's .
Lots of train stuff going back to the steam era even.

There was a camp in my hometown on the outskirts when I was a kid I've never checked out.
Lots of history along the rails!
 

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