The rare craptastic day

Goldwasher

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May 26, 2009
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It started out feelin pretty good too.

I was on my way to the post office to send Delnorter his EZ pan and going to the county to look at files so I can map out an open in an area with a few claims to help a client prospect. Hopefully have it end up being a good spot for her and her boyfriend to locate a claim.

I had just left my neighborhood and right up the road I pass a Tweetie Bird yellow Nissan frontier 4x4. There aren't too many Stupid yellow trucks where I'm at for me however there is a very specific yellow truck around here.

It belongs to a fellow named Doug or Ray Rinzonni (he goes by both). He owns a company called mORE mining out of Georgetown. He was a dealer for him for a while selling a few of the things he makes. That rolling sluice and sniper/viewer tubes.

I met him when I opened my store he is mainly a nuggethunter. we had several conversations He knew I had claims and where.
Well,last year I moved my store across the highway and had to remodel and open by may I started my new lease in mid March was still working on the creek four days a week. But, Starting April I was remodeling a whole suite, moving, dealing with my daughters softball practices etc.

I had still been hitting the claim two days a week I hadn't swapped out my memory cards in my camera for a few weeks. One day on my way out theres this yellow truck parked near the start of the road. I'm in my heart hoping it isn't Dougray Knowing it is.

I actually had a printed picture map I made of the BLM land and claims on it Our two and the one next to us.I put it under his windshield wiper, headed home. Went to softball practice. Came home checked out my camera videos and images and theres Ray on three different days for eight plus hours each walking out in the dark even.

He uses a minelab sdc whatever the hell folding one that is. There he is on video with it and the same white dog that shows up in his youtube videos.

WTF??

Next day I go down to the claim and where he had been parked he crumpled the map and threw it on the ground. But, not before writing F.U. on the back of it with a sharpie.

FOR REAL

So, I go work for the day. When I get home I call his partner who I also know. He's a geologist. Told him to tell ray he has two days to figure out what he has to say to me before I call the sheriff.

Two days later I call the Sheriff. file the report they go by his house twice. The first time the wife even says.. "oh, your probably here because of Jarrod"

When the deputy finaly runs into him he plays stupid" oh, I saw the yellow signs but, I just had eye surgery"

"if he wants to tell me what is open i'll make sure to only go there"

So, basically nothing was done except he was admonished not to return.

Fast forward back to today. I see him turn around follow hanging back. I had a different vehicle when we met.So, I figure he won't even know it's me.

He didn't see me turn around. So I'm behind him he makes the turn into my neighborhood. Our claims are in a BLM area surrounded by private land. You have to be with a homeowner as a guest to use our common areas our road is private.

We did make eye contact as we passed and a little ways into our hood I figured he may know it was me following him.

Right near the road to our trail is a lake and park. He pulls in there I see him eyeing me in his side mirror I go up the road park for a few minutes and ponder my next step.

Go back to the park and pull in. get out walk over and tell him he's got a lot of nerve. Top get the hell out of my neighborhood. Remind him what a P.O.S. he is he starts getting all defensive and talking about claim markers etc.

Then he tells me how he heard that I got my claim by tricking a club and taking it after they took me there...totally weird and untrue.

When I found him out in the spring I tracked where he had gone on our claims the neighbors and onto the large parcels adjacent to the blm land.

So, I told him what a P.O.S. he was for highgrading and trespassing.

He had some guy with him this time so, I reminded him that he was cruising around with a thief.

I had already called the sheriff right in front of him gave his vehicle and Liscense plate. But, they take forever to show up.

So, the more he tried to claim he could stay and that I was the jerk somehow, the more I tried to verbally get him to allow me to self defend my self all over his stupid face.

Of course he is a stupid coward and left. Now, I have to file another report running into the deputy can take a day or two.

I did wait for a bit where I parked but, I had other things I needed to do.

When I get to the county Recorder. I found out for sure that the new recording tax in Ca. does count for mining claims.

So every mining claim document that has to be recorded now has a $75 dollar tax per document. MINIMUM.

Location notice. Proof of labor. notice of intent to hold.

That $150 bucks added to the cost of filing a new claim. the first year. $75 at time of location recording and $75 when you file the Notice of intent to hold the first time you use the SMW.

And $75 added to annual paperwork. It was less than $50 before total. El Do county is $18 first page $3 for each additional.

Like I said CRAPTASTIC!!!
 

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Duckshot

Silver Member
Sep 8, 2014
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Or, chain his axle to a tree or other stout anchor with about 30' of mostly slack chain when he aint paying attention while he is parked at your claim, then chase that weasel back to his truck. If he is as much of a wussy as you say, he will run when he sees you coming.- "Hey ray! Whatcha running from boy!!? You forgot part of your truck!!!!"
 

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Reed Lukens

Silver Member
Jan 1, 2013
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Congres, AZ/ former California Outlawed Gold Miner
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Or, chain his axle to a tree or other stout anchor with about 30' of mostly slack chain when he aint paying attention while he is parked at your claim, then chase that weasel back to his truck. If he is as much of a wussy as you say, he will run when he sees you coming.- "Hey ray! Whatcha running from boy!!? You forgot part of your truck!!!!"

Ahh, just like taking him mining and showing him the shaft...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kujd9IbAbIo
 

Duckshot

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Sep 8, 2014
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I been to tour an old silver mine in Silver Flume/Georgetown CO. One of the guides explained the the term "getting shafted", which is a fairly popular idiom. Most people today think it has something to do with sex but they are wrong.

Speaking of wrong,

Packing the powder and lighting the fuse is a dangerous thing. But lighting the fuse ain't nearly as dangerous as being the poor son of a whore that has to place and light the second fuse....

Ya' follow? Think about it.
 

TAKODA

Hero Member
Aug 19, 2008
920
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Alabama
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Damn GW ..... sounds like that man is an *******s ******* .
I agree with you in that you can't go physical on a 60 year
old .... unless they somehow make it unavoidable .
Not to mention fist fights often lead to other problems .
You would think the guy wouldn't be so " in your face "
about it knowing he's been caught and in the wrong .
I guess the man has no shame or honor . To bad for him .

 

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Goldwasher

Goldwasher

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May 26, 2009
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Sailor Flat, Ca.
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Goldwasher, I really think you need to think this through some. It looks to me like you are getting some terrible advice here. I'm all for educating those that lie, cheat, and steal, but do you really want to escalate this situation to violence and personal injury? I mean hell, this is when We celebrate the birth of The Messiah, The Savior, The Prince of Peace. You don't want to do something you will regret later just because it feels good right now.

Forgiveness is hard for me too, but I try not to do things out of anger cause when I do I always end up regreting it. You got a legitimate gripe but you gots be smart about it. Patients is key.

Im wondering if Doug ray is employed? He took from your piggy bank, maybe you can punch him in the wallet- don't go to the Deputy. Go to his employer and explain the situation to them. If the dude is stealing from you no doubt he would rip off others.You already went to Doug ray, did not fix it. Now its time to go to the community Doug ray has to live with. If the truth is on your side, take advantage of that.


He's self employed.

He makes a few prospecting items. I was selling his stuff in my store. As in bought at wholesale and his stuff was on my shelves when he did this FIVE TIMES last spring.

I gave away every bit of inventory I had of his products.

I found out about it in a two day period four time he was there that week and once the week before.

We had sat and talked gold for hours previous. He knew he was where my claims were he walked and drove past four of our signs and one for another claim.

They all clearly say no detecting or prospecting.

I put an actual map of the claims under his windshield wiper he wrote F.U. on the back and threw it on the ground.

Drove past my house every time he did it and had my phone number the whole time.

I called his biz partner who is a geologist figuring I would hole his profession and relation ship over his head. He was not happy to hear. Though he told me Ray would make the "there were no signs" excuse.

As it is his go to...in my experience it is the non claim holding nugget hunter/sniper go to excuse.

Told him ray had 48 hours to decide what to say to me and call me.

Two days later I called the sheriff.

this is not about forgiveness.

I don't ever worry about being the better person or taking the high road. When I am already clear on my status.

Especially considering what happened before our personal relationship.

The reason a guy like him does things like these is because he doesn't get caught.

I'm doing everything I can to make sure he is always looking over his shoulder.

because he obviously doesn't respect other prospectors work and holdings.
 

mytimetoshine

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Jun 23, 2013
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El Dorado County
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Criminals dont obey laws.. This is why i always questioned the point of filing a claim, unless your there EVERYDAY to protect it, claiming the ground will just alert thiefs where to steal from
 

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Goldwasher

Goldwasher

Gold Member
May 26, 2009
6,077
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Sailor Flat, Ca.
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So one shouldn't own a business because it alerts thiefs of something to target?

question owning a car

or a home or a farm a ranch any other way of making your own income

quite the unproductive point of view.

Anything of value you built up and invested in.

If I only had weekends to bother with anything I would feel different.
 

mytimetoshine

Bronze Member
Jun 23, 2013
1,574
3,370
El Dorado County
Detector(s) used
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So one shouldn't own a business because it alerts thiefs of something to target?

question owning a car

or a home or a farm a ranch any other way of making your own income

quite the unproductive point of view.

Anything of value you built up and invested in.

If I only had weekends to bother with anything I would feel different.
You still think you own that land.. cute..


Im not aginst it i just think its a fools venture. Just as i suspected there is no real legal recourse if someone decides to violate your legal mining claim. You called the sheriff and they did nothing even with video evidence. Case closed.

Im with you on what happened though. That guy is in the wrong and a total douche bag
Writing FU on the note u left him... Id punch that guys jaw to the back of his throat. I belive in mining claims but unless its stupid rich or you're working/monitoring it daily it just doesnt work.

People who cant find gold on their own search for claims to highgrade. 99.99% of those people would not have ever thought to look there in the first place, if it wasnt for the fact it was claimed
 

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loco oro

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Aug 15, 2013
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All jokes aside, I believe your best next step would be a public shaming if possible, violence and pranks are not in your best interest, you have pics, a name,if Johny law won't help, then shame him where he haunts, sounds like you would know where and how. Let it be public notice what a scumbag he is, I am sorry for your situation, don't let it ruin your holidays, or anything else
 

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Goldwasher

Goldwasher

Gold Member
May 26, 2009
6,077
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Sailor Flat, Ca.
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SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, .35 gallons of water per minute.
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You still think you own that land.. cute..


Im not aginst it i just think its a fools venture. Just as i suspected there is no real legal recourse if someone decides to violate your legal mining claim. You called the sheriff and they did nothing even with video evidence. Case closed.

Im with you on what happened though. That guy is in the wrong and a total douche bag
Writing FU on the note u left him... Id punch that guys jaw to the back of his throat. I belive in mining claims but unless its stupid rich or you're working/monitoring it daily it just doesnt work.

People who cant find gold on their own search for claims to highgrade. 99.99% of those people would not have ever thought to look there in the first place, if it wasnt for the fact it was claimed


First, I sell gold the only legal way to sell gold from public lands is to claim it.

Second I spent more time on my claim last year than I didn't. I probably spend more time in my claim than the majority of claim owners in the state. This happened to be when I go from digging to selling. Season change water going away. Whole new suite to remodel.

I didn't have video evidence of him digging only being there with a metal detector. Numerous times. I can kick him out for that and he can and has been told not to come back by the sheriff.

There is legal protection it is just not as straight forward as you would hope.

The guys who do this kind of stuff know what they are doing they know when an area has potential. They scout access and if they feel like they can get away with it they do.

He didn't find it because he went online or to the county and saw I filed he went there because he knew me, Knows I get good gold there and he thought he could get away with it.

There is recourse it may seem like a pain in the ass to have to do so much to get the S.O. to do something. It doesn't mean he can't get in trouble for it.

It is a sad state of affairs when a guy who does everything by the books to secure and validate his claim, is bringing the resource to market can get ripped of by a person he knows who took advantage of personal knowledge gained by trust on my part.

And its a "fools venture"

The problem is we live in a state that is creating a culture of letting thieves and losers off easy because some how they are the victim. That the person they took from is somehow in the wrong for having something to take.

The property owner should think twice about securing ownership?? Sad.

I never said anywhere that I owned the land. Don't know how or why that is "cute" or even where it comes from.

My partners and I own the mineral rights plain and simple. The analogy of car ownership , farm, ranch was in relation to putting effort in to creating wealth and having someone sneak in and steal it... because you showed them it was there ?

Weird weird train of thought.

Not having a claim puts me in the same boat as everyone else who just does this as an activity. Always wondering where to go. You can lose your spot no real ability to follow a plan or map the resource. No legal right to sell it if your digging on BLM or F.S.

The situation I have mentioned is not a constant problem for me. This individual is. I would much rather deal with it than have to go work open areas that the weekenders go to for funzies on a Saturday.

Gold has a lot less value if it can only sit there. I enjoy digging it and selling it.

I didn't do anything wrong or make any kind of foolish choice when I filed this claim five years ago.

I promise my partners don't feel foolish either.

This is not a hobby for me it's a business.

It is right down the road from my house for a reason. Bought my house here for a reason. Studied,researched it was a major factor in buying our house.

I am there as much as I can be. It is "monitored" everyday.

In truth my defense for what I do, my decision to do this is not a thing to be criticized I didn't do anything wrong.

Ideally I should be able to handle it myself.

But, beating up a short skinny old dude with glasses is not going to make the situation better. It would most likely get me in trouble.

It's not going to stop me from doing what I do.

99% of highraders are not doing what they do as new claims pop up. they do what they do because they don't have respect.
 

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Goldwasher

Goldwasher

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All jokes aside, I believe your best next step would be a public shaming if possible, violence and pranks are not in your best interest, you have pics, a name,if Johny law won't help, then shame him where he haunts, sounds like you would know where and how. Let it be public notice what a scumbag he is, I am sorry for your situation, don't let it ruin your holidays, or anything else

I'm good. nothing ruined. Just making sure people know about the guy. There are other claim owners in the county who are tnet members.

They would like to know about RAY RAY
 

cliff162

Greenie
May 24, 2014
19
97
california
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If you see someone prospecting on your claim if you can get a picture of him in the act would be great or at least a picture where he could be identified would be good. Picture of his vehicle and plate. If the sheriff doesn’t arrive in time no big deal take pictures of your signs. Go home make copies of the documents showing you own the claim any receipts also your blm paperwork . A map of the claim an aerial view from google maps. Mark the locations of your signs and the location he was prospecting. Take it to the sheriffs dept tell them you want to make a report for (in California)for penal code section 487d and that you want prosecution also bring copies of your photos so they can attach it to the reort
 

benny

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Sep 15, 2012
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Would small claims court work?

(jeez, what a post! Small claims court...) :)
 

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dsrtdwg1

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Sep 3, 2015
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Loco Oro has it right. A gotcha video with sound .....questioning him would go a long way. Public shaming has been a very effective tool lately. Plastered on every prospecting/detecting site, it would be almost like a cease and desist order. Violence or destruction of private property would only put you in the legal hot seat and garner him sympathy. The public cares nothing of mining laws on public land, most LEO's have bigger issues to deal with. What everyone understands is a working man being slighted, food taken from his family.

Sucks you are in this position, no one likes to feel as though they are being robbed. Best of luck with it, I'm sure you will get it sorted.
 

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Goldwasher

Goldwasher

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May 26, 2009
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Sailor Flat, Ca.
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If you see someone prospecting on your claim if you can get a picture of him in the act would be great or at least a picture where he could be identified would be good. Picture of his vehicle and plate. If the sheriff doesn’t arrive in time no big deal take pictures of your signs. Go home make copies of the documents showing you own the claim any receipts also your blm paperwork . A map of the claim an aerial view from google maps. Mark the locations of your signs and the location he was prospecting. Take it to the sheriffs dept tell them you want to make a report for (in California)for penal code section 487d and that you want prosecution also bring copies of your photos so they can attach it to the reort

Five videos numerous unfortunately not digging.

The Sheriffs office in this County has dealt with mining claim issues since well...they're the first tto have to do so so, there is that.

They are a great help but, you still have a District Attorney.

So, things below the grand theft level don't get much attention.

So, yes it is all about me collecting my own evidence.

When this dipwad was caught before he admitted walking past and seeing the signs.

Though he had just had "eye surgery" and couldn't read that high. The assholmesphere must cause distortion when your 5' 3' and a sign is way up at seven feet.

I don't have to have signs the S.O. knows that

As a courtesy I have twelve six yellow and black and six spelling out that the entire area with creek is claimed by us and others. The hillsides are included in that.

There are two maps showing all claims. As well, as the private land surrounding.

The guy has been admonished by the sheriff deputy to never return to the BLM land or trespass across the private land to access it.

He said he wouldn't.


So, I was slightly surprised to see him attempting again. I guess he figures it only applied for six months or so.
 

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Goldwasher

Goldwasher

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May 26, 2009
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Sailor Flat, Ca.
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Reminder.

Luckily he was just trespassing the other day and hadn't walked into the claimed area YET.

If I hadn't been driving down the road an passed him he would have continued on.

part of me wishes he would have. Granted seeing him on my cameras again would piss me off.

I would have video of him in an area he had officially been warned against being ever again.

I called the sheriff right in front of him when he refused to leave.

Unfortunately, he and I both know the sheriff can take hours for this sort of thing.

I took pictures of his truck in place.

He tried to be righteous and indignant for as long as he could.

That only goes so far when you know your wrong and the sheriff is on the way.

So, he left.

If I'm somewhere I am allowed to be and someone says they are calling the sheriff.

I'm stayin'


In order to go to small claims I would have to have proof of a taking. So, no not yet.

I will have to just help stupid Ray Ray work on his paper trail as it seems that is what he wants.

I will also help the area learn of his reputation.

To be aware when they see yellow truck parked near them or their neighbors.

Keep in mind he wasn't detecting only BLM he was all over adjacent parcels that aren't developed.
 

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Goldwasher

Goldwasher

Gold Member
May 26, 2009
6,077
13,225
Sailor Flat, Ca.
🥇 Banner finds
1
Detector(s) used
SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, .35 gallons of water per minute.
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If you see someone prospecting on your claim if you can get a picture of him in the act would be great or at least a picture where he could be identified would be good. Picture of his vehicle and plate. If the sheriff doesn’t arrive in time no big deal take pictures of your signs. Go home make copies of the documents showing you own the claim any receipts also your blm paperwork . A map of the claim an aerial view from google maps. Mark the locations of your signs and the location he was prospecting. Take it to the sheriffs dept tell them you want to make a report for (in California)for penal code section 487d and that you want prosecution also bring copies of your photos so they can attach it to the reort


At this point I am doing everything I can to show his intent.

It has been used to arrest higraders before. I just have to get a deputy to have to deal with him several times for the same thing

I really just hope he decides to stay the hell away.
 

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Goldwasher

Goldwasher

Gold Member
May 26, 2009
6,077
13,225
Sailor Flat, Ca.
🥇 Banner finds
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Detector(s) used
SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, .35 gallons of water per minute.
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http://www.rocklintoday.com/news/templates/community_news.asp?articleid=6995&zoneid=4
 

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