The state can not countermand a federal law

[Aurabbit79er]

It is Illegal for a state to countermand a federal law. That is what started the Civil War.
And my friends It looks like war.


Southern California Miners have been hit again.
I'm Tellin yall, This dog sure as hell won't hunt.

 

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[johnnysau]

My thoughts exactly. Seems to work for the FEDS in the realm of marijuana - FED LAW trumps state law
How can the states get away with it, what am I missing.

johnnysau

 

[maniacheels]

yeah that sucks. Hope its not going to be used as an example for other states.

 

[Oakview2]

Entry and location, I believe means cannot be claimed, but has nothing to stopping prospecting.

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

WHERE IS THAT SIGN POSTED AT ?

 

[Aurabbit79er]

WHERE IS THAT SIGN POSTED AT ?

This sign was recently erected the first campsite after the parking lot. the campsite is known as Heaton Flats.
It is a primitive campsite with no running water and only has two trash cans and a concrete outhouse.
This is the last stop at the end of the forest service road.
North from there it's all hiking trails for 12 miles up to Wrightwood.
just about every gold miner has to pass the sign on their way to their glory hole.
It was no accident that they put it here.
This article will give you an idea of how wrong they are.

U.S. Forest Service (USFS) intimidating, and lying to prospectors - Non-Responsive to Citizens? | PRLog

This is not a new event but it is a change in events.
Just another form of harassment and waste of our taxpaying dollars.

 

[johnnysau]

Agenda 21 at work:

Heres the (reg ulation - strang ulation) per U.S.C. 1133 - c and d 3.




d(3) Mining and mineral leasing laws; leases, permits, and licenses; withdrawal of minerals from appropriation and disposition
Notwithstanding any other provisions of this chapter, until midnight December 31, 1983, the United States mining laws and all laws pertaining to mineral leasing shall, to the same extent as applicable prior to September 3, 1964, extend to those national forest lands designated by this chapter as “wilderness areas”; subject, however, to such reasonable regulations governing ingress and egress as may be prescribed by the Secretary of Agriculture consistent with the use of the land for mineral location and development and exploration, drilling, and production, and use of land for transmission lines, waterlines, telephone lines, or facilities necessary in exploring, drilling, producing, mining, and processing operations, including where essential the use of mechanized ground or air equipment and restoration as near as practicable of the surface of the land disturbed in performing prospecting, location, and, in oil and gas leasing, discovery work, exploration, drilling, and production, as soon as they have served their purpose. Mining locations lying within the boundaries of said wilderness areas shall be held and used solely for mining or processing operations and uses reasonably incident thereto; and hereafter, subject to valid existing rights, all patents issued under the mining laws of the United States affecting national forest lands designated by this chapter as wilderness areas shall convey title to the mineral deposits within the claim, together with the right to cut and use so much of the mature timber therefrom as may be needed in the extraction, removal, and beneficiation of the mineral deposits, if needed timber is not otherwise reasonably available, and if the timber is cut under sound principles of forest management as defined by the national forest rules and regulations, but each such patent shall reserve to the United States all title in or to the surface of the lands and products thereof, and no use of the surface of the claim or the resources therefrom not reasonably required for carrying on mining or prospecting shall be allowed except as otherwise expressly provided in this chapter: Provided, That, unless hereafter specifically authorized, no patent within wilderness areas designated by this chapter shall issue after December 31, 1983, except for the valid claims existing on or before December 31, 1983. Mining claims located after September 3, 1964, within the boundaries of wilderness areas designated by this chapter shall create no rights in excess of those rights which may be patented under the provisions of this subsection. Mineral leases, permits, and licenses covering lands within national forest wilderness areas designated by this chapter shall contain such reasonable stipulations as may be prescribed by the Secretary of Agriculture for the protection of the wilderness character of the land consistent with the use of the land for the purposes for which they are leased, permitted, or licensed. Subject to valid rights then existing, effective January 1, 1984, the minerals in lands designated by this chapter as wilderness areas are withdrawn from all forms of appropriation under the mining laws and from disposition under all laws pertaining to mineral leasing and all amendments thereto.

c
(c) Prohibition provisions: commercial enterprise, permanent or temporary roads, mechanical transports, and structures or installations; exceptions: area administration and personal health and safety emergencies
Except as specifically provided for in this chapter, and subject to existing private rights, there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road within any wilderness area designated by this chapter and, except as necessary to meet minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this chapter (including measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety of persons within the area), there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport, and no structure or installation within any such area.

johnnysau

 

[mellowyellow]

Wow, did they shut down EF??


Holy ****, we are screwed guys. The man is coming down on us. Prospect while u can boys. Our time is ending.

 

[mellowyellow]

Wow, did they shut down EF??

Holy ****, we are screwed guys. The man is coming down on us. Prospect while u can boys. Our time is ending.

Btw, I'm still mining there

 

[Aurabbit79er]

Oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

we've Got The Right To Choose And
there Ain't No Way We'll Lose It
this Is Our Life, This Is Our Song
we'll Fight The Powers That Be Just
don't Pick Our Destiny 'cause
you Don't Know Us, You Don't Belong

oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

oh You're So Condescending
your Gall Is Never Ending
we Don't Want Nothin', Not A Thing From You
your Life Is Trite And Jaded
boring And Confiscated
if That's Your Best, Your Best Won't Do

oh.....................
oh.....................
we're Right/yeah
we're Free/yeah
we'll Fight/yeah
you'll See/yeah

oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore
no Way!

oh.....................
oh.....................
we're Right/yeah
we're Free/yeah
we'll Fight/yeah
you'll See/yeah

we're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
we're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

we're Not Gonna Take It, No!
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
we're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

just You Try And Make Us
we're Not Gonna Take It
come On
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
you're All Worthless And Weak
we're Not Gonna Take It Anymore
now Drop And Give Me Twenty
we're Not Gonna Take It
oh Crinch Pin
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh You And Your Uniform
we're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

source: Twisted Sister - We're Not Gonna Take It Lyrics

 

[Aurabbit79er]

Get your Twisted Sister on guys.

 

[mellowyellow]

Oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

we've Got The Right To Choose And
there Ain't No Way We'll Lose It
this Is Our Life, This Is Our Song
we'll Fight The Powers That Be Just
don't Pick Our Destiny 'cause
you Don't Know Us, You Don't Belong

oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

oh You're So Condescending
your Gall Is Never Ending
we Don't Want Nothin', Not A Thing From You
your Life Is Trite And Jaded
boring And Confiscated
if That's Your Best, Your Best Won't Do

oh.....................
oh.....................
we're Right/yeah
we're Free/yeah
we'll Fight/yeah
you'll See/yeah

oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore
no Way!

oh.....................
oh.....................
we're Right/yeah
we're Free/yeah
we'll Fight/yeah
you'll See/yeah

we're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
we're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

we're Not Gonna Take It, No!
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
we're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

just You Try And Make Us
we're Not Gonna Take It
come On
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
you're All Worthless And Weak
we're Not Gonna Take It Anymore
now Drop And Give Me Twenty
we're Not Gonna Take It
oh Crinch Pin
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh You And Your Uniform
we're Not Gonna Take It Anymore

source: Twisted Sister - We're Not Gonna Take It Lyrics

Awesome!!!!

 

[wingmaster]

I think it all depends what suits their agenda even when state law and federal law are going hand in hand sometimes the feds are against it, like I think it was Nevada where they was cracking down on illegal immigrants the feds said you can't do that cause its are job not yours, even though the feds wasn't doing it.

 

[UncleMatt]

I am running into the same situation in the Weminuche Wilderness area in Colorado. Lostcoastau contacted me and shared with me a declaration from the USFS that the Weminuche Wilderness area had been withdrawn from mineral extraction, and that no prospecting of any kind (including metal detecting) would be allowed. So I reached out to the director of minerals for the USFS in the Durango, CO area. Helen Mary Johnson was very nice to speak to, and told me that that recreational sluicing, metal detecting, and panning WERE INDEED allowed in the wilderness area under the 1872 Mining law. She told me she had seen the declaration about no prospecting in the wilderness area, and did not agree that is was in force with the USFS. I asked her why such declarations were being issued to the public if they were not in force. She had no answer, and I got the impression she was caught in a situation between the actual law and those who have an agenda to promote that goes against that law.

And MANY people on both sides of the aisle engage in this kind of thing when in positions of power. A few people with an agenda can really ruin things for everyone else, no matter what that agenda might be. I was encouraged that Helen was reasonable and understood the law, but we need to start raising awareness about what is going on here. How is it that such declarations and signs are approved and created for public view without a review by USFS attorneys??

I will be testing the reaction of the USFS in the Weminuche Wilderness area, because I definitely plan to prospect there for recreation, just like I did last summer. If a ranger has issues with that, I will be happy to put him on the phone with Helen straight from the trail. It will probably take some absurd court battle before we get the USFS to start acknowledging that the LAW and some people's agendas within the USFS are in opposition to one another! And it won't do any good to gin things up in general ways about the government, just straightforward action is needed.

Here is a link to the declaration I am referring to: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5395375.pdf

 

[wingmaster]

Yep but a verbal ok won't be enough to keep you from getting into trouble when they have signs posted, that sign is enough for you to be in violation. If the person you talked to knows its ok to prospect they would remove the sign or at least have it say its ok to do recreational prospecting, as I think anyone would know your not ok to bring in a track hoe and set up a full scale mining operation on public land. Here in Indiana you can't even sluice or use any hand tools on federal land they said the federal government lets the people in this state make the call on what you can or can't do on federal land, metal detecting is off limits as well, I'm not sure if its a federal person in the state or Indiana people making the call.

I am running into the same situation in the Weminuche Wilderness area in Colorado. Lostcoastau contacted me and shared with me a declaration from the USFS that the Weminuche Wilderness area had been withdrawn from mineral extraction, and that no prospecting of any kind (including metal detecting) would be allowed. So I reached out to the director of minerals for the USFS in the Durango, CO area. Helen Mary Joseph was very nice to speak to, and told me that that recreational sluicing, metal detecting, and panning WERE INDEED allowed in the wilderness area under the 1872 Mining law. She told me she had seen the declaration about no prospecting in the wilderness area, and did not agree that is was in force with the USFS. I asked her why such declarations were being issued to the public if they were not in force. She had no answer, and I got the impression she was caught in a situation between the actual law and those who have an agenda to promote that goes against that law.

And MANY people on both sides of the aisle engage in this kind of thing when in positions of power. A few people with an agenda can really ruin things for everyone else, no matter what that agenda might be. I was encouraged that Helen was reasonable and understood the law, but we need to start raising awareness about what is going on here. How is it that such declarations and signs are approved and created for public view without a review by USFS attorneys??

I will be testing the reaction of the USFS in the Weminuche Wilderness area, because I definitely plan to prospect there for recreation, just like I did last summer. If a ranger has issues with that, I will be happy to put him on the phone with Helen straight from the trail. It will probably take some absurd court battle before we get the USFS to start acknowledging that the LAW and some people's agendas within the USFS are in opposition to one another! And it won't do any good to gin things up in general ways about the government, just straightforward action is needed.

Here is a link to the declaration I am referring to: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5395375.pdf

 

[B H Prospector]

Remember this guys, policy is not regulations and regulations are not laws. Only congress can pass laws legally anything else is illegal. Until the 1872 law is completely repealed they can KISS MY A$$!!!

 

[Hefty1]

BINGO!

 

[Hefty1]

Wingmaster...east and west have differant Fed laws. The dif, between purchased land and acquired land.

Yep but a verbal ok won't be enough to keep you from getting into trouble when they have signs posted, that sign is enough for you to be in violation. If the person you talked to knows its ok to prospect they would remove the sign or at least have it say its ok to do recreational prospecting, as I think anyone would know your not ok to bring in a track hoe and set up a full scale mining operation on public land. Here in Indiana you can't even sluice or use any hand tools on federal land they said the federal government lets the people in this state make the call on what you can or can't do on federal land, metal detecting is off limits as well, I'm not sure if its a federal person in the state or Indiana people making the call.

 

[Aurabbit79er]

Remember this guys, policy is not regulations and regulations are not laws. Only congress can pass laws legally anything else is illegal. Until the 1872 law is completely repealed they can KISS MY A$$!!!

Amen Brother.
A lot of people forget the Civil War started because southern states wouldn't honor federal laws regarding slavery.
The only reason the state is getting away with it because were not fighting in back hard enough. we start taking the state court and these cases go before a federal judge then the US Department of Justice will start to see that the state is countermanding the federal laws. I know that they are buddy buddy but it becomes a professional interest when the public becomes aware of it. something that has been bothering me is the language on the most recent sign up at East Fork San Gabriel River. There's no citation number listed. There is no state or federal penal code listed. There's no penalty assessment mentioned. There's no phone number to call to report violators. No mention of the possibility of mining equipment being confiscated. And this is the part that really bugs me, the legal documentation of land withdrawal of areas in the San Gabriel Mountains started back in 1964. All this time nobody mining in the East Fork Gabriel River has ever been hassled until now. That means if this really was an enforceable law the Forest Service Rangers have been in violation of their sworn oath to protect and uphold the law for over 40 years. There is an agenda here that we are completely unaware of. Why now? Why not in the 80s and 90s?

 

[soupfreak]

Amen Brother.
A lot of people forget the Civil War started because southern states wouldn't honor federal laws regarding slavery.
The only reason the state is getting away with it because were not fighting in back hard enough. we start taking the state court and these cases go before a federal judge then the US Department of Justice will start to see that the state is countermanding the federal laws. I know that they are buddy buddy but it becomes a professional interest when the public becomes aware of it. something that has been bothering me is the language on the most recent sign up at East Fork San Gabriel River. There's no citation number listed. There is no state or federal penal code listed. There's no penalty assessment mentioned. There's no phone number to call to report violators. No mention of the possibility of mining equipment being confiscated. And this is the part that really bugs me, the legal documentation of land withdrawal of areas in the San Gabriel Mountains started back in 1964. All this time nobody mining in the East Fork Gabriel River has ever been hassled until now. That means if this really was an enforceable law the Forest Service Rangers have been in violation of their sworn oath to protect and uphold the law for over 40 years. There is an agenda here that we are completely unaware of. Why now? Why not in the 80s and 90s?

This has much to do with environmentalist influence in government. The picture that is painted is one of land overuse and abuse. We know these to be untrue but the environmentalist dogma is unrelenting. If the environmentalists were to have their way, there would be no such thing as "public lands." Even a day hike would be considered a criminal act.

It's important that we continue to fight for our public lands. This goes even farther than prospecting. More and more we are seeing the government move against the public with no transparency and no accountability (Google "monsanto protection rider" for an example)

As prospectors we are not the only ones who have a dog in this fight. I believe we need to reach out to other groups who share our same concerns and build a united front against this erosion of freedoms. Stronger numbers = stronger voice.