The Two Soldiers

[azdave35]

Joe, does anyone else remember the State Highway Marker and rest area by Silly Mountain? I remember it still being there until the State widened the highway (Route 60) from a 2 lane road to a 4 lane divided road. At that time it was removed, about August/September 1964.
I remember the road being widened then and no longer saw the rest area with the Marker when going up to Phoenix while on Leave from Boot camp.
"This is where the Dutchman would leave the stage to go to his mine."
With a iron replica of a prospector leading a burro/mule that he (Waltzr) didn't use.

do you think you could find where the marker was on google earth?....

 

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[audigger53]

Google Earth does go back that far. We moved into the state back in '58. When we moved to Florence, we would go to Williams AFB as my Dad was a retired Commander. Both for the Doctors and the BX for shopping. Every time we went Route 60, there it was. Silly Mountain is also Dinosaur Mountain. The only Hill next to the road. It really is a hill, not a mountain, not that big or high. Just past it heading West was the State Marker and rest area. Gone now.

 

[audigger53]

Best guess is where they put in the Gold Canyon Housing project, 33.366695, -111.478033. No where near the Peralta Trail head entrance or First Water, actually almost in line with the Hierogliphic Canyon. That's my best guess. I can't believe that no one else on here never saw that growing up. I mean, I am "old" now, but nobody else here saw it from 1958 to 1964?
That's kinda scary.

 

[sailaway]

to those of you that did not read what Tom wrote :

the Marlowe boy had told him the military buttons were clear indicators of a mustered out military person. Anyone else would have been accused of being absent from duty.

Do you still want to base an opinion of recently mustard out military men on what a young boy believed without research?
During this time Apaches were roaming the hills and small patrols could run into trouble. Was the murder reported to authorities and investigated?
With modern Forensics should the body be exhumed and investigated?, according to Holmes we have Jacob Waltz confessing he killed them. Tom claims he could get close to the grave, the rest would be up to authorities to examine a true cold case murder.
Look at the resistance the Adolph Ruth murder had, according to the chief medical examiner in D.C. Ruth's head wound was indicative of a gunshot to the head, because he had seen many similar wounds from war autopsies, yet the death was ruled as accidental by local medical examiners. The State of Arizona refused to reverse its findings no matter what the Feds told them.
Should Jacob Waltz go down in history as a Murderer of Mexicans, Military men and innocent men just riding by?

 

[Azquester]

Best guess is where they put in the Gold Canyon Housing project, 33.366695, -111.478033. No where near the Peralta Trail head entrance or First Water, actually almost in line with the Hierogliphic Canyon. That's my best guess. I can't believe that no one else on here never saw that growing up. I mean, I am "old" now, but nobody else here saw it from 1958 to 1964?
That's kinda scary.

I think I've been there on the old road going past Queen Creek. At least it seemed silly to me..the mountain that is..its where the peralta stones were born by decree. Or Travis Tumlinson's forging site. And I'm not talking about forging metal either.
It's all about fake stones and disappearing mountains. Both seem like fairy tales.

 

[audigger53]

to those of you that did not read what Tom wrote :

Do you still want to base an opinion of recently mustard out military men on what a young boy believed without research?

But you believe other word of mouth accounts about where the mine is located by clues from Julia, ect.
During this time Apaches were roaming the hills and small patrols could run into trouble. Was the murder reported to authorities and investigated?

If troopers were killed in the line of duty, it was reported back to the Army in DC for payroll purposes if nothing else.

Should Jacob Waltz go down in history as a Murderer of Mexicans, Military men and innocent men just riding by?

Thought he already was down for that. Some say he killed Peralta's, some discharged troopers, some people that followed him in to the Supes and never returned.
There would be no record of discharged troopers disappearing as they would have been off the rolls of the Army.
BTW Patrols were never just 2 troopers in Indian territories. Scouts with patrols behind them yes.
But even then payroll records had to be kept while they were in service to the Army.

 

[sailaway]

I almost forgot to include Waltz's own flesh and blood that he killed. Today he would have been labeled an American Terrorist.

Bill I will give you a clue, the Stone maps were not faked as some claim, I have seen an original letter that confirms the find by an independent source in correspondence to a news station. The letter can be viewed in a book that is written and due to be released soon. Will leave it to the Author to announce that it is available.

audigger 53 wrote: as if quoted by me :

But you believe other word of mouth accounts about where the mine is located by clues from Julia, ect.

No where have I posted I believe Julia and consider it an insult that you put it as if I said that in quote
It is apparent to me you have not read my thread here of Survey of the Mina Virgon
secondly audigger53 wrote: as if quoted by me :

If troopers were killed in the line of duty, it was reported back to the Army in DC for payroll purposes if nothing else.

Has anyone looked at the records to see if reports came in to DC of abandoned post or dead members of the army scouts in that time frame? or for that matter discharged members?
I have and found one record of a army scout reported to the family members in Arkansas of a member died in 1880 in Arizona. No details were given or would show name of the scout that died. records from AR Historical Soc.

 

[audigger53]

I'm afraid that we have to agree to disagree. NP Take care and good luck.

 

[sgtfda]

Stoners dreams.

 

[Azquester]

I almost forgot to include Waltz's own flesh and blood that he killed. Today he would have been labeled an American Terrorist.

Bill I will give you a clue, the Stone maps were not faked as some claim, I have seen an original letter that confirms the find by an independent source in correspondence to a news station. The letter can be viewed in a book that is written and due to be released soon. Will leave it to the Author to announce that it is available.

audigger 53 wrote: as if quoted by me :

No where have I posted I believe Julia and consider it an insult that you put it as if I said that in quote
It is apparent to me you have not read my thread here of Survey of the Mina Virgon
secondly audigger53 wrote: as if quoted by me :

Has anyone looked at the records to see if reports came in to DC of abandoned post or dead members of the army scouts in that time frame? or for that matter discharged members?
I have and found one record of a army scout reported to the family members in Arkansas of a member died in 1880 in Arizona. No details were given or would show name of the scout that died. records from AR Historical Soc.

Sailaway, Ryan Gordon has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the stones are a fabrication manufactured by Travis Tumlinson the carver. He also buried them for few years just so he could dig them up and create a false narrative. So if anyone witnessed him digging them up he tricked them in the worst way.

Jacob Waltz and those that claimed after he left that he had gave directions to his mine probably did the same thing. Liars hang together and perpetuate the lie which becomes a legend in time. I think everyone that's done a book on the Dutchman Mine has fabricated most of their stories off others lies.

Ryan through the family has proved Travis made those maps. Unless he's really a Peralta born three hundred years before he said he was, I think you need not dig no further for anything.

That fake stone map hunt has left the building!

 

[Cubfan64]

This is an old thread having been started back in 2010. There was discussion at one point about how what we know as the "Bark Notes" got into the public domain both on this thread and others in the past but I don't know if anyone ever attached a copy of this letter written by John Spangler (Bark's nephew) with some interesting insights.

 

[sailaway]

That is not the letter I was referring to. Being as I know who has the letter, none of you have ever seen it before.
Bill you can believe what you want but why continue to post about those things if you believe all is a hoax? Seems to me that is a huge waste of your time?
The maps are land identifications for title and proof of a certain location. Gadsden Purchase was being put into place and the only way the Spanish/Mexicans could hold title after that was proof of posting location.

 

[azdave35]

That is not the letter I was referring to. Being as I know who has the letter, none of you have ever seen it before.
Bill you can believe what you want but why continue to post about those things if you believe all is a hoax? Seems to me that is a huge waste of your time?
The maps are land identifications for title and proof of a certain location. Gadsden Purchase was being put into place and the only way the Spanish/Mexicans could hold title after that was proof of posting location.

all of the stoners are in for a surprise in the not too distant future

 

[cactusjumper]

all of the stoners are in for a surprise in the not too distant future

Dave,

As a recovering "stoner", there is not much that surprises me anymore. I will look forward to a new revelation.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

That is not the letter I was referring to. Being as I know who has the letter, none of you have ever seen it before.
Bill you can believe what you want but why continue to post about those things if you believe all is a hoax? Seems to me that is a huge waste of your time?
The maps are land identifications for title and proof of a certain location. Gadsden Purchase was being put into place and the only way the Spanish/Mexicans could hold title after that was proof of posting location.

The letter I posted has absolutely nothing to do with your comments or the stone maps - it addresses an earlier discussion on this thread about how the Bark Notes may have become public.

 

[cactusjumper]

The letter I posted has absolutely nothing to do with your comments or the stone maps - it addresses an earlier discussion on this thread about how the Bark Notes may have become public.

Hi Paul,

Hope all is well with you and Connie.

Not much in these discussions follows a logical path. Admittedly, I do find it interesting to see just where the conversations will go these days. Pure boredom.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Hi Paul,

Hope all is well with you and Connie.

Not much in these discussions follows a logical path. Admittedly, I do find it interesting to see just where the conversations will go these days. Pure boredom.

Take care,

Joe

Things are well - busy, but well. I'm hoping to come out to AZ for the Rendezvous this year, but it'll likely be a very short trip this time of only a few days - enough to pick up my gear at Frank's so he doesn't have to keep storing it for me, hang out for a couple days and then get back home but it's better than not getting out there at all. I could use the break.

 

[EarnieP]

Hi Paul,

Hope all is well with you and Connie.

Not much in these discussions follows a logical path. Admittedly, I do find it interesting to see just where the conversations will go these days. Pure boredom.

Take care,

Joe

Come on Joe, fifty years as a LDM hunter must have led you to more than boredom?
Sad if true , but I know you must have something that would liven things up around here.

Preach Reverend! Lead us down that righteous path, the congregation is all ears...

 

[cactusjumper]

Come on Joe, fifty years as a LDM hunter must have led you to more than boredom?
Sad if true , but I know you must have something that would liven things up around here.

Preach Reverend! Lead us down that righteous path, the congregation is all ears...

Ernie,

I have been posting since 2002. In that time, I have posted thousands of times on hundreds of subjects. Some would say I should have posted much less. We have had many, many serious discussions on the LDM, the Superstitions, the Southwest, Apache and other Native American tribes, South and Central America, Jesuits, missions, missionaries and the history of them all. Over those 58 years, I have studied all of those subjects.......and more.

I'm tired. It's time to let someone else beat this particular drum.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[EarnieP]

Ernie,

I have been posting since 2002. In that time, I have posted thousands of times on hundreds of subjects. Some would say I should have posted much less. We have had many, many serious discussions on the LDM, the Superstitions, the Southwest, Apache and other Native American tribes, South and Central America, Jesuits, missions, missionaries and the history of them all. Over those 58 years, I have studied all of those subjects.......and more.

I'm tired. It's time to let someone else beat this particular drum.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

But the big question Joe, after all those years of serious discussions, study and postings;
Did you find the Dutchman's mine?

(If so, a map would be nice, carved in stone if you think it appropriate.)