Using vegetaion or trees as a research tool.

[PetesPockets55]

There is an immense wealth of knowledge shared by individuals and researchers here. I'm hoping someone can point me to information on:

1)What kind of vegetation Spanish mariners would have planted (ie: food sources) in areas where they expected to frequent or return.

2)Also how to "read" the current fauna to see what is normal and what might be indicative of a clearing that has regrown. From fast growing shrubs to pines, oaks and other trees and how they can be used to "visualize" the occupation of an area.

As an example, in my area of Florida, I come across papaya or flowers (flower bed?) or ferns that are isolated or contained in a limited space. Some areas I have noticed are definitely modern based on the trash metal found. Other times it is signs of regrowth by observing dunes for the types and age of vegetation growing on them to determine where mother nature has breached a dune in the past. This might indicate artifacts deposited on the mainland side of dunes.

ps. An interesting tidbit from what I've read is that papaya (aka pawpaw) is not native to Fla. but is high in vitamin C and very hearty in a tropical climate.
Any thoughts or knowledge you would like to share is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

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[Alexandre]

What you are looking for is landscape archaeology.

Check this guy's work:

https://universityofarizona.academia.edu/MichaelHeilen

and these papers/books:

http://lrlr.landscapeonline.de/Articles/lrlr-2014-1/download/lrlr-2014-1Color.pdf

http://whc.unesco.org/uploads/activities/documents/activity-126-2.pdf

http://carlosreynoso.com.ar/archivo...ton-Archaeology-Anthropology-of-Landscape.pdf

 

[PetesPockets55]

Thanks Alexandre.

I just got in for the day I'll be sure to take some time to look over the links.

 

[Blak bart]

I use this technique quite a bit. That being said spanish planted crops and trees tend to be long gone....but the settlers and the farming operations that came with them were much more intense and extensive. The remnants of some of these crops are still visable here and there. The big thing to remember is that many of these farmers moved onto land that was previously occupied by the spanish and almost always close to a water source and deep water Anchorage. Last year I saw some nice papayas growing close to the road. After passing by for months I decided to go and pick some. As I got closer to the fruit other indicators started to show.....sisal, yucca, sapodilla (evenly spaced on groomed mounds) and even a mango or 2. Very soon I was staring at a red dyed concrete side walk barely showing under hundreds of years of leaf litter. Without carrying on for pages here I'll cut to the find. These red side walks and curbs I traced out and mapped for more than a mile. The long story short is that the papayas led me to 17 foundations and the discovery of the lost settlement of the town of "redbird". Many people had searched without luck but the vegetation from previous farming is what led me to it. Papayas, yucca, and sisal are great indicators and will carry on for years and years after settlements are long gone. The ferns are also good indicators of fresh water. When I see them here in the keys they are almost always on a freshwater source (sippy holes as we call them) The spanish and later settlers used these fresh water holes in the past. I've been able to locate old farmsteads and settlements using the flora and fauna as indicators. So far I've found the lost towns of Aiken, redbird, and planters. Aiken and redbird are towns that currently are not officially recognized as being discovered. So I use the papaya, sisal, and yucca to locate old homesteads here in the keys.....more often than not 80 -85% of the time there will be evidence of habitation when I see all three close together. And ya I have made a lot of great finds so far in redbird......and I'm still on the first site an old tabby cistern !!

 

[BillA]

Bb in the same vein

There was a small book which used to be sold in San Jose, CR called The Treasure Hunter written by a fellow who lived by digging up indigenous graves; which was legal at the time - and why I came to CR. He would locate the settlements in the most dense jungles and sort them out in terms of functional areas (think graveyards here) by the vegetation, which he described. He was looking for sites up to ~1200 years old and found them w/o difficulty - from the ground.
These are the old guys I visit with, lots of fun.

He asked a fascinating question: How long must a jungle remain undisturbed to be called a "virgin forest" ?
Often the phrase simply means un-logged in modern times.
As the archies are coming to acknowledge; once messed up by man the evidence remains. (see post #2 above)

edit: unbelievable, retrieved the book from my bro-in-law after 11 years
"Treasure Hunters" by Carlos Liebhaber, pub in CR, no date; I bought it in the early '80s
1976 it seems

 

[Bum Luck]

2)Also how to "read" the current fauna to see what is normal and what might be indicative of a clearing that has regrown. From fast growing shrubs to pines, oaks and other trees and how they can be used to "visualize" the occupation of an area.

I have some skill doing this, but where I live, not Florida. I don't know if I'm particularly good, but I suspect I have a lot to learn yet.

Sounds like you're learning already. It will be a gradual process, not usually instant revelation. As you learn, it's like seeing with your brain, not your eyes. Watch the oaks and learn their signs, they are old. There is a plant succession process, Google that up, and you are looking for disruptions in it.

 

[SanMan]

2)How to "read" the current fauna to see what is normal and what might be indicative of a clearing that has regrown. From fast growing shrubs to pines, oaks and other trees and how they can be used to "visualize" the occupation of an area.

As an example, in my area of Florida, I come across papaya or flowers (flower bed?) or ferns that are isolated or contained in a limited space. Some areas I have noticed are definitely modern based on the trash metal found. Other times it is signs of regrowth by observing dunes for the types and age of vegetation growing on them to determine where mother nature has breached a dune in the past. This might indicate artifacts deposited on the mainland side of dunes.

ps. An interesting tidbit from what I've read is that papaya (aka pawpaw) is not native to Fla. but is high in vitamin C and very hearty in a tropical climate.
Any thoughts or knowledge you would like to share is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I touched on this in a recent thread.
Trying to locate a cd / dvd of how to read the trees and plants to find former homesteads.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting/621318-reading-trees.html


I posted what I could remember from that disk.

 

[PetesPockets55]

I knew you guys would come through with some very helpful info.

BB those are exactly the types of observations I was curious about (but not really sure how to pose the question so it would make sense).
Locally, I've found patches of St. Augustine grass, ferns & flowers in localized areas that turned out to be more modern homesites with nails and junk. But they got me to thinking about other scenarios and what kind of plants mariners or salvors would have planted when they knew they would be coming back or staying for an extended period of time. Just like they did with mustangs, cattle and hogs.
Now I'll have to study and learn the other types of crops you mention and look for the combo.

Bb in the same vein

There was a small book which used to be sold in San Jose, CR called The Treasure Hunter written by a fellow who lived by digging up indigenous graves; which was legal at the time - and why I came to CR. He would locate the settlements in the most dense jungles and sort them out in terms of functional areas (think graveyards here) by the vegetation, which he described. He was looking for sites up to ~1200 years old and found them w/o difficulty - from the ground.
These are the old guys I visit with, lots of fun.

He asked a fascinating question: How long must a jungle remain undisturbed to be called a "virgin forest" ?
Often the phrase simply means un-logged in modern times.
As the archies are coming to acknowledge; once messed up by man the evidence remains. (see post #2 above)

edit: unbelievable, retrieved the book from my bro-in-law after 11 years
"Treasure Hunters" by Carlos Liebhaber, pub in CR, no date; I bought it in the early '80s
1976 it seems

BillA, Thanks I'll have to see if I can find that book.



Bumluck- That process of regenerating back to a mature forest is the other type of info I was curious about. I knew there was a sequence that nature follows depending on how absolute the destruction is. Fast low growing shrubs, palmettos, sea grapes, mangrove, pine, oak. They all take their turn in the process after a dune is washed out in a hurricane or a fire (to clear land for campsites?).

I touched on this in a recent thread.
Trying to locate a cd / dvd of how to read the trees and plants to find former homesteads.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting/621318-reading-trees.html


I posted what I could remember from that disk.

Sanman, Thank you for your thread.
It is the one that got me to formulate the questions in my head about what mariners and salvors would have planted. (plus I didn't want to hijack your thread.)

 

[BillA]

PP55 (love that name)

missed that your focus was in fact tropical, some odds & ends from one who lives here

there is something of a debate among the uninformed about 'natural' and 'foreign' plant interlopers and I have great sport demolishing the 'knowledge' of boobs
some examples, I live on the Pacific in Central America and the following are imports:

coconut trees "European explorers brought it to West Africa, the Caribbean and across the Atlantic coast of tropical America in the 16th century, making the humble coconut trulypantropical. History Of Coconuts: How Did Coconuts Colonize The Tropical World?

mango is from India (this one gets to Ticos) https://mango-trees.blogspot.com/2009/10/history-and-origin-of-mango.html

breadfruit is from New Guinea

bamboo "bamboo was indigenous to China from prehistoric times" https://www.gardenguides.com/81160-history-bamboo-plants.html

the naturally fruiting trees down here do not even exist up north, nor will they grow or propagate

the papaya is actually native to Mexico but I did not investigate how far north they occur naturally, don't think they would tolerate frost at all

 

[BillA]

forgot the really biggie

the banana

"[FONT=&quot]The banana was carried by sailors to the [/FONT]Canary Islands[FONT=&quot] and the West Indies, finally making it to North America with Spanish missionary Friar Tomas de Berlanga. https://www.thespruceeats.com/history-of-bananas-as-food-1807565[/FONT]

 

[PetesPockets55]

........... So far I've found the lost towns of Aiken, redbird, and planters. Aiken and redbird are towns that currently are not officially recognized as being discovered. So I use the papaya, sisal, and yucca to locate old homesteads here in the keys.........!! View attachment 1774512
View attachment 1774513

So you think "Aiken" and "Red Bird" are definitely separate and distinct geogragraphical towns?
From what I've read recently there is some speculation they may be the same town but from different time periods.

(And I know you must already be familiar with this site LINK for upper Keys history.)

 

[PetesPockets55]

PP55 (love that name)

missed that your focus was in fact tropical, some odds & ends from one who lives here

there is something of a debate among the uninformed about 'natural' and 'foreign' plant interlopers and I have great sport demolishing the 'knowledge' of boobs
some examples, I live on the Pacific in Central America and the following are imports:

coconut trees "[FONT=&]European explorers brought it to West Africa, the Caribbean and across the Atlantic coast of tropical America in the 16th century, making the humble coconut truly[/FONT]pantropical. History Of Coconuts: How Did Coconuts Colonize The Tropical World?

mango is from India (this one gets to Ticos) https://mango-trees.blogspot.com/2009/10/history-and-origin-of-mango.html

breadfruit is from New Guinea

bamboo "bamboo was indigenous to China from prehistoric times" https://www.gardenguides.com/81160-history-bamboo-plants.html

the naturally fruiting trees down here do not even exist up north, nor will they grow or propagate

the papaya is actually native to Mexico but I did not investigate how far north they occur naturally, don't think they would tolerate frost at all

BillA, absolutely exquisite list. ( :
All of them grow very well here where the tropics begin. Occasional freezes keep them from spreading much further north.
Papaya are here but they're not as hardy or easy to transport as citrus and they are very high in "scurvy fighting" vitamin C.

And BB's list includes plants I am familiar with, just not by those names. (Agave is the "Century Plant" I believe and yucca is "Spanish bayonette")


EDIT: I found this finger tip sized fruit (not a Seagrape) a couple of weeks ago on the barrier island and took a leap of faith when I cut one open and touched my tongue to the meat to see about flavor. It had none, not bitter, not sweet and probably not quite ripe. (Evidently not highly toxic either as I'm still here! )
Any idea on what it might be? I thought it might be some type of dwarf or wild citrus tree (lime?) since it resembled it in color (but no flavor) and had thorn-like spikes on the branches.
I may have to take a sample to the local Agricultural Extension office to find out.

 

[Blak bart]

Ya....I'm getting to a point where I'm accumulating more info thans printed. When I'm done hunting these places I'll hand over what I've learned to a particular historian and museum down here. I will explore on my own and build a body of work to hand over when I'm ready. If I go now and expose it all it will be placed off limits quickly. Luckily a good portion is on private property that I have permission for. Definatly 2 separate sites. The origins of redbird that I have found will be a pretty big deal for keys history.....just not ready to divulge what I've discovered yet until I've thoroughly hunted it for caches. People in the keys didn't put there cash in banks until the 40s 50s. This town was gone before banking became accepted down here. That link is about the total info that can be found in print.....the rest is oral tradition. Google earth and other sat imagery has helped me pin point some great anomalies in the hardwood canopy also. That with the flaura and fauna on site has helped me find the foundations that were hidden under a foot or 2 of leaf litter and leaf mold soil.

 

[PetesPockets55]

Thanks BB for taking the time to share and hope I haven't caused stress.

I definitely don't want you giving up any info before you're ready. I just love reading about this history and can (and do) get lost for hours following one piece after another.

 

[RTR]

Big, old, trees have treasure underneath the bigger/older the tree the better.This one is on a 1800s farm house.

 

[SanMan]

I knew you guys would come through with some very helpful info.

Sanman, Thank you for your thread.
It is the one that got me to formulate the questions in my head about what mariners and salvors would have planted. (plus I didn't want to hijack your thread.)

No problem, happy to help.

It will take some doing, but I still have the hard drive I was using when I copied some
of the information from that disk. I'll need to hook it up, search it, pull the info out
and share it here so we all can use it.

 

[RTR]

With an old well next to it ...perfect