Video 4 - The Peralta Stone Maps with Frank Augustine

[cactusjumper]

Joe

This is not a reason to call those artifacts as fake .
I have heard/read a story about a King who would give his kingdom for a horse . Sometimes people act in accordance with their needs and this doesn't mean how what they give are worthless .

Marius,

I appreciate your comments, but they are more than enough reason for me. We live in a different world here. We say, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." As I have mentioned before, when a man is convicted of selling bogus cancer cures to old folks, that puts him in a stand alone category. As we are in the business of helping the elderly, it has a special, personal meaning for me.

Believe what you will.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[azdave35]

Marius,

I appreciate your comments, but they are more than enough reason for me. We live in a different world here. We say, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." As I have mentioned before, when a man is convicted of selling bogus cancer cures to old folks, that puts him in a stand alone category. As we are in the business of helping the elderly, it has a special, personal meaning for me.

Believe what you will.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

joe...who was convicted of selling bogus cancer cures?

 

[cactusjumper]

joe...who was convicted of selling bogus cancer cures?

From what I have been told, Michael Bilbrey. My source was very good, and no one has ever denied that statement. Preying on sick people is about as low as you can get. When I brought this up in the past, I was told that Bilbrey had spent his time in prison and paid the price......as if that made everything OK.

If that is untrue, someone needs to say so.

Take care,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

From what I have been told, Michael Bilbrey. My source was very good, and no one has ever denied that statement. Preying on sick people is about as low as you can get. When I brought this up in the past, I was told that Bilbrey had spent his time in prison and paid the price......as if that made everything OK.

If that is untrue, someone needs to say so.

Take care,

Joe

thanks joe...i had never heard that before.....that does shed a different light on the subject

 

[cactusjumper]

Dave,

Mr. Bilbrey also did an interview, on tape, and made it clear he was trying to sell his artifacts, but did not want partners in his claim. It's been awhile since I listened to the tape, which I have, but I seem to remember him mentioning that he needed a new car.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

From what I have been told, Michael Bilbrey. My source was very good, and no one has ever denied that statement. Preying on sick people is about as low as you can get. When I brought this up in the past, I was told that Bilbrey had spent his time in prison and paid the price......as if that made everything OK.

If that is untrue, someone needs to say so.

Take care,

Joe

Travis had a criminal past yet you personally have spent 50+ years thinking about the stone maps he "found". Not to excuse Mike's conviction, but it would be unwise to dismiss his discoveries outright based on ones feelings about what he attempted to do. Suspicious yes, outright dismissive no. Just my opinion but, with two losses now to cancer and a third in the process, I do understand your anger towards him.

 

[markmar]

Joe

If the artifacts owner was selling bogus cancer cures to the old folks , this don't make the artifacts fake . Are two different " pictures " .

 

[Hal Croves]

Joe

If the artifacts owner was selling bogus cancer cures to the old folks , this don't make the artifacts fake . Are two different " pictures " .

When dealing with cancer cures "fake" is a dangerous word. Ineffective may be a better choice and there are plenty of "legal" remedies that are absolutely ineffective. And they still charge you for the treatments even when it has 0 positive results.

Plus, if I am remembering correctly, Mike was not alone in that venture and there is another side to that sad story.

 

[markmar]

Hal

When i wrote " fake " , i was talking about the artifacts ( Crosses and Latin heart ) .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

If the artifacts owner was selling bogus cancer cures to the old folks , this don't make the artifacts fake . Are two different " pictures " .

Marius,

For those of us who have been close to the legends for many years, a large number of personalities come and go on a regular basis. We learn to trust the words of some and discard some others. If I don't trust the man, I don't trust his "artifacts".

You, on the other hand, must make your judgments from a place far removed from the realities of the places and people who are part of the overall stories. I know you believe what you say is fact, but so did many others who have come and gone over the years.

I am no longer looking for anything in the Superstition Mountains. That does not make my perspective unique, as there are many others who no longer walk the trails. Until you do, and sit at the campfires of many old timers who have passed on, as well as those who are still with us, you are not in a strong position to explain what is real and what is not.

What you trust boils down, in many cases, to who you trust.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Travis had a criminal past yet you personally have spent 50+ years thinking about the stone maps he "found". Not to excuse Mike's conviction, but it would be unwise to dismiss his discoveries outright based on ones feelings about what he attempted to do. Suspicious yes, outright dismissive no. Just my opinion but, with two losses now to cancer and a third in the process, I do understand your anger towards him.

Hal,

Don't believe I ever claimed the Stone Maps were 100% legit. What I have always maintained was that they were accurate depictions of that certain part of the Superstition Mountains.

My search was always for Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars......always. Everything else was just a sidebar.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Joe,

Do you have the information for when Bilbrey was arrested? I have been looking into that, and found a few interesting things, but I need to make sure we are talking about the same person.

Mike

 

[markmar]

Joe

I take the maps separately from their owners . I don't care now and for ever who owned the all stone maps . The maps don't show the owners character or history . We have to focus on the maps and on their meanings .
Many thieves have sold precious things in the past and this don't made those things fake .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

Do you have the information for when Bilbrey was arrested? I have been looking into that, and found a few interesting things, but I need to make sure we are talking about the same person.

Mike

Mike,

You should ask Tom Kollenborn or, maybe, Bob Corbin for details.

Marius,

That may be true, but it makes a difference to me, especially if there is no background or history (provenance) attached to the artifact. Then, the only thing we really have to go on is trust in the finder. I have none......Zero.

On the other hand, you may be right.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ever find em Cactus ?

 

[deducer]

Joe,

Do you have the information for when Bilbrey was arrested? I have been looking into that, and found a few interesting things, but I need to make sure we are talking about the same person.

Mike

Mike,

What info Joe provided was given on the LDM forum:

From: NCAHF News, September/October 1995 Volume 18, Issue #5:

CANCER QUACK GETS 5 YEARS
On June 20, Michael Kent Bilbrey, 44, of Chandler, AZ was sentenced to 5 years in prison and ordered to pay $39,300 in restitution for selling a quack cure that was nothing more than a concoction of cranberry juice, saline solution and household bleach. Bilbrey pleaded guilty in March to a charge of theft, admitting that he promoted his potion as a cure for cancer and AIDS with no scientific justification.

The NCAHF (National Council Against Health Fraud) is by no means a news outlet, but instead a voluntary, non-profit organization. Not that this news isn't true, but there is no further reference.

 

[deducer]

We live in a different world here. We say, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." As I have mentioned before, when a man is convicted of selling bogus cancer cures to old folks, that puts him in a stand alone category. As we are in the business of helping the elderly, it has a special, personal meaning for me.

Joe,

Do you have any proof that shows that Bilbrey knowingly sold a quack cure, rather than being a middleman (for example) who got suckered in by a scam artist? Furthermore do you have proof that he was specifically targeting the elderly?

If he were a scam artist, isn't it a bit odd that he waited around a decade before perpetuating another fraud? He revealed that he had in his possession, the stone crosses, when he was 32. His prosecution for selling a quack-cure occurred when he was 44.

 

[KXMember]

Joe

The stone crosses and the Latin heart are very accurate , and are a different set of stone maps which lead at the same area with the stone trail map
The cross with the symbols ( landscapes ) on it , recognized a general area which starts from the canyon bottom and ends on the mountain top . The cross have to be applied , from the marking , looking to the mountain side .
On the mountain top , have to recognize the Latin heart .

Not the case at all. You are reaching big time. The aerial shots are not anything of significance.

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

Do you have any proof that shows that Bilbrey knowingly sold a quack cure, rather than being a middleman (for example) who got suckered in by a scam artist? Furthermore do you have proof that he was specifically targeting the elderly?

If he were a scam artist, isn't it a bit odd that he waited around a decade before perpetuating another fraud? He revealed that he had in his possession, the stone crosses, when he was 32. His prosecution for selling a quack-cure occurred when he was 44.

deducer,

I don't feel the need to explain my thoughts to someone who uses a fictitious name to make anonymous attacks on me or others.

If people want to follow someone like Bilbrey, it's their choice.

I believe I have given a lot to the Dutch Hunting Community. Got nothing left.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Thanks Deducer,

I can't find anything about it on either Ancestry or Newspapers.com.

Let's also keep in mind that I found another Michael Kent Bilbrey (born in 1971):



This would 99% have been Michael K Bilbrey's Son. But because the article in the NCAF says that "Michael Bilbrey, 44 of Chandler, Az". THAT would have definately been our Michael Bilbrey, because he was born in 1950 (so in 1995, he would have been 44).

Joe,

Funny thing you mentioned Bob, as I just got an email from him about something else. It never occurred to me that he might have been the one that prosecuted Bilbrey (couldn't have been Bob as he retired in 1991). Too bad we can't go to the horse's mouth as Bilbrey died in 2012. I guess that Jim was one of the last people that he spoke to on the subject. Later on, he got pissed at Jim, because he (Bilbrey) didn't want his name to publicly come out, and rehash all that old stuff, then clammed up on Jim. I left him a few voicemails in about 2009-2010 after Jim gave me his info, but he never returned the call. I figured he just wanted to fade into anonymity.


My problem is that I just did a complete background search on Michael Kent Bilbrey. Born in 1950. Other than traffic offenses, it doesn't show him as having been arrested for anything The article cited by Deducer was October 1995, and said he was sentenced in June (of that year probably).

The first section are the 100% positives are him:



These are the "not quite so positives":



These are the "maybes"