Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[cw0909]

Roland, ive been thinking about that, my thinking is all the stuff wrote about the
notes/TK&BC were fabricated for who knows, or maybe it was and was added to
what did TK and BC say to you about it

cw0909,
Bill,
I have been accused of not being respectful of Tom K. in some of my previous posts but can no one see that the original story Tom told is inconsistent with what he tells today. Originally he could not get off work on such short notice so he couldn't make the trip with Walter Gassler now in 2015 in one of his chronicles he states he went to see him on the trail. How odd is that!! Remember, I was also originally told by Tom and Bob that they could not make it since it was such short notice.
With respect to getting notes when he went out to meet him it is unlikely my father would have given him anything if this actually happened which I doubt.
RWGassler

 

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[gollum]

As I stated on a post that was removed; The only thing any of you will get done with this is to beat the dead horse even deader. You will never get anything but more questions. Do ANY of you REALLY believe that either Tom Kollenborn or Bob Corbin will come on here and answer a bunch of pointed questions for a bunch of people they owe no allegiance (or anything else for that matter) to? Some of you act like this is a congressional panel with some kind of power to subpoena people.

The questions are absolutely legitimate, and ROLAND (and his family) deserves to have answers. I have tried from the start to help him with what information I have had, and be a sort of buffer between the parties concerned. Neither Tom K nor Bob C are likely to jump into any conversation where they feel uncomfortable. I think that Roland would benefit from a face to face with either or both men. It should be a private conversation between the persons with the answers, and the man that needs them. It is none of our business. The answers (no matter what they are) will get none of you to the DLM any quicker. All they will hopefully do is give Roland and his family some peace.

Y'all can go back to playing the blame game. I am certain that it will get you a long way down this trail.

Mike

 

[Old]

Hey guys, you all are doing a pretty good job but lets be sure to stay on topic and be respectful of one another. Doesn't mean we have to agree. Doubtful that will happen.

We are on the edge of being censored for bickering and that's never good <g>. Bring up your questions, give us your thoughts and ideas. Debate vigorously. That's all good. Cat fights and hair pulling, not so good.

On a different note...........Does any one have a full copy of the police incident report? There is a snippet of it on the Unsolved Mystery site but I've not seen a full copy. I'd really like to read it.

 

[nobodie]

I didn't notice it before but it seems like he is writing manuscript to someone like a letter. I don't know how anyone is going to take this.
Pgs.49 & 50,
" but as I have told you on the phone and letter I need help, and since you told me about people being up there even more so, legal help, searching help, and for sure a very good blasting man "
" but since I read your articles in your book especially the deathbed story of Jake you put the final piece to the puzzle "

 

[cw0909]

a manuscript of walts went to California and some notes maybe? went missing
to a fake Roland Gassler, a little voice in the back of my mind, keeps saying
its all bs just to keep the LDM alive, then the other little voice says there is
some truth in there somewhere besides, the real existing manuscript/booklet
at the museum. im going to call and see if i can still get a copy
does the guy Gregory E. Davis work at the museum

 

[nobodie]

Walter was thinking of taking on partners even crazy Jake.
Pgs. 39,
"For some time I was thinking of going in with Jake Jacobson, Crazy Jake, and let him blast the hell out of a few places up there it will come to that I am sure"
Walter backed out of the idea because" Jake is in so much trouble with the forest service. "

 

[gollum]

a manuscript of walts went to California and some notes maybe? went missing
to a fake Roland Gassler, a little voice in the back of my mind, keeps saying
its all bs just to keep the LDM alive, then the other little voice says there is
some truth in there somewhere besides, the real existing manuscript/booklet
at the museum. im going to call and see if i can still get a copy
does the guy Gregory E. Davis work at the museum

CW0909,

Greg is the President of the Superstition Mountain Historical Society and Museum. Easier just to call the museum and ask if they still have any copies for sale.

SUPERSTITION MUSEUM

Mike

 

[nobodie]

look up the Superstition Mountain Museum on the internet, might be something that could help.

 

[nobodie]

Having trouble receiving the message, not very good at this. Will keep trying.

 

[Old]

on the dead horse issue.

Love ya, mean it <g>

I hear ya. I understand where you are coming from. I appreciate, and I’m sure Roland appreciates, your efforts.

However; <g>

Do not under estimate the power of a well informed and motivated public and its strongly held opinions. It can move mountains and bring corrective action faster than any other persuasive power on earth.

 

[cactusjumper]

cw0909,
Bill,
I have been accused of not being respectful of Tom K. in some of my previous posts but can no one see that the original story Tom told is inconsistent with what he tells today. Originally he could not get off work on such short notice so he couldn't make the trip with Walter Gassler now in 2015 in one of his chronicles he states he went to see him on the trail. How odd is that!! Remember, I was also originally told by Tom and Bob that they could not make it since it was such short notice.
With respect to getting notes when he went out to meet him it is unlikely my father would have given him anything if this actually happened which I doubt.
RWGassler

Roland,

2015 is around 31-years since the events surrounding your father's death took place. You might cut the man a little slack for not writing the exact same words today, that he did 31-years ago. Congratulations if your memory is that good. Those of us that have led a hard life, tend to not be as sharp as we once were. Still, I'm constantly amazed at just how sharp the man still is.

Tom has been building a reputation in the Superstitions and Arizona since the late 40s. In those years, he has seen a lot of country and heard many, many stories. He is a living legend in that area and a very well respected historian. Your own reputation is centered, for most of us, around the time you started posting here. That being said, most Dutch Hunters are aware of your name and your part in the story of your dad's tragic end.

I don't know where, exactly, I insulted you, but I was one of the first people here to accept your identity. If you feel I have slighted you in any way, you have my sincere apologies.

A number of years ago, I mixed up two storied of caves of gold bars. That was around 2002. My Uncle Chuck was involved in the searches for both caves. He is the one who told me both stories. I, of course, never wrote any of it down. Kind of the story of my life. His story of Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars set me on a search that lasted 40 or 50 years.

If your interested in just getting the straight story, you should talk to Tom. If you're interested in some kind of revenge or the tearing down of someone many of us consider an honorable man and an icon, you probably won't find a lot of support here.



Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[nobodie]

Walters manuscript,
part 2, pg.4,
"I don't know if you Bob, know Peters canyon, its pretty to start with, nice and green, water and like Peralta claimed, full of small pot holes."

 

[nobodie]

W.G. manuscript,
Part 2, pg.4,
"As to the different stories about several mines in different places, could very well have originated from different caches."
"The way it turned out, all I ever found was that they had only 2 mines, first, the Sombrero, then close by and even richer."

 

[nobodie]

The last paragraph of W.G. manuscript,
Part 2,pg.7,
"Now I am sure you can see the Weavers Needle from that cave on or near the top of Malapais Mt. and the old water hole is just a short way down the canyon or wash, so is the old store house. I don't think anybody has ever bothered to separate the two mines since the Waltz mine erupted there is just that one glorious mine to all hunters the Lost Dutchman. Yet there is that other tangling mystery Indian legend of the rich burried mine, Barkley`s lost mine, ha-ha, shall we try?"

 

[RWGassler]

Joe,
I think I've said before that the events surrounding my fathers death does not diminish the knowledge Tom has regarding the Superstitions. I see your point about getting a story mixed up but this is not a story he heard it is one he was personally involved in and the differences are quite striking. No one wants to get "revenge" as you put and if an attempt to get the story accurate is "revenge" then I would say nearly everyone that posts something different about a post falls into this category. You are also correct that the only knowledge people have of me is from this forum but also someone who was involved in the events of my fathers death so it's not like I am repeating what someone told me years ago. No matter, not everyone is going to agree all the time and that's ok. I think what matters is that information presented is looked at with an open mind not cluttered with preconceived ideas. Good results come from good research.
RWGassler

 

[sdcfia]

As I stated on a post that was removed; The only thing any of you will get done with this is to beat the dead horse even deader. You will never get anything but more questions. Do ANY of you REALLY believe that either Tom Kollenborn or Bob Corbin will come on here and answer a bunch of pointed questions for a bunch of people they owe no allegiance (or anything else for that matter) to? Some of you act like this is a congressional panel with some kind of power to subpoena people.

The questions are absolutely legitimate, and ROLAND (and his family) deserves to have answers. I have tried from the start to help him with what information I have had, and be a sort of buffer between the parties concerned. Neither Tom K nor Bob C are likely to jump into any conversation where they feel uncomfortable. I think that Roland would benefit from a face to face with either or both men. It should be a private conversation between the persons with the answers, and the man that needs them. It is none of our business. The answers (no matter what they are) will get none of you to the DLM any quicker. All they will hopefully do is give Roland and his family some peace.

Y'all can go back to playing the blame game. I am certain that it will get you a long way down this trail.

Mike

Odd, conflicted post on a public forum where the questions at hand relate to previous public statements, even from protagonists. I understand personal loyalties just fine, and I'm hearing, "Just forget about it, move on", which is understandable. However, this venue is not a blog, and a wider audience presumably wishes to let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Azquester]

Mr Gassler,


I respond to you at the risk of being accused of sucking up.

Sometimes when you see a fiction story like TK wrote in that article it stings a bit, it seems as though the person has used your fathers story as his way of inserting himself into every aspect of all the legends of the Superstitions. Kind of reminds me of that newscaster that recently did the same. I guess you could call that action as being a legend in his own mind. That is, unless of course, if he actually told the real story this time and he was with Walter when he died. Which would really make him closer to the story and the real truth, but if he was that close during his final hours it sure puts a spin on all of the above issues about telling so many different scenarios. Sort of reminds me of laying out a smoke screen so no one can see the true target. If it was a fictional account he should have written it as such.
And it may be just that. Fictional. Writers have a way of taking others stories and inserting themselves into the plot. Whether or not this is the case I can't tell you, but, on the surface it sure looks damning. I reserve my judgment for actually meeting and talking with or verifying the real participants in this fictional story. The truth is out there so trust no one. If I were you at this point I would show that story to a fictional investigator and have this looked into in another fictional book.

(This above account is a fictional rendition of a possible fiction writer's true intentions of his fictional characters including himself with unverified, unsubstantiated gobble-de-goop slap your knees gibberish.)

cw0909,
Bill,
I have been accused of not being respectful of Tom K. in some of my previous posts but can no one see that the original story Tom told is inconsistent with what he tells today. Originally he could not get off work on such short notice so he couldn't make the trip with Walter Gassler now in 2015 in one of his chronicles he states he went to see him on the trail. How odd is that!! Remember, I was also originally told by Tom and Bob that they could not make it since it was such short notice.
With respect to getting notes when he went out to meet him it is unlikely my father would have given him anything if this actually happened which I doubt.
RWGassler

 

[Old]

Joe, I can easily relate to episodes of foggy memory. I hope that’s forgivable because sometimes I can’t remember what I had for breakfast.

What we are discussing here is far different than slight deviations or lapse memory of insignificant details. It’s the difference of a completely different story and outcome.

Whether or not TK did ride out and speak with Mr. Gassler along the trail is only of passing interest. It adds flavor and color to the story but doesn’t advance the mystery of what happened to Mr. Gassler’s personal effects. I do not attach any ulterior motives to the inclusion of this bit of color to the story.

Where the difference in stories becomes substantive is in the account of actions and results occurring post discovery of Mr. Gassler’s death. We have to reconcile the major differences between Ms. Corbin’s account and TK’s account. There are other reference but for sake of brevity I will focus on this two.

Garry and Roy have provided us with Ms. Corbin’s written accounts. Mr. K’s writings are easily assessable with a simple browser search. Ms. Corbin’s account is substantially the same over two different books written several years apart. Ms. Corbin advises us “fake” Roland never received ANYTHING from either TK or Mr. C. TK advises us he turned over the material to “fake” Roland. That’s not a simple lapse of memory. That’s a completely different rendition of the events and results of the events.

You know better than I, but I’m lead to believe TK and BC were (and are) close friends. Certainly Ms. Corbin was in a position to know and be well acquainted with both men and their remembrance of the events. If Ms. Corbin got the story wrong in her first book there was ample time and opportunity to set the record straight in her second book. Didn’t happen.

Then we find Mr. Gassler’s personal records, supposedly by TK’s account taken by fraudulent methods, on file in the private collection of a long time historian and official of a research organization. It is unknown if they are one in the same or a facsimile of the original “misdirected” material. Fair question and easily answerable, one would think.

Fast forward to day. I think it not at all unusual that Roland would have many unanswered questions and would harbor doubt on issues of important details that are tied to the historic record of his father’s life and devotion to his search. I also do not find it unusual or inappropriate that we, as a source of information and research, have many questions. Tough and uncomfortable questions.

Roland’s quest for answers has been met with resistance. Not only resistance, early in this discussion he was the subject of much suspicion, ridicule and made the butt of jokes by some. Most unfortunate.

 

[Oroblanco]

Just for the record here, before we start attaching nefarious motives and darken the character of Tom Kollenborn and Bob Corbin, anyone can look up their public biographies:

Tom Kollenborn Chronicles: Bio

Robert Corbin | The NRA Foundation Inc | ZoomInfo.com

It would not be incorrect to call either man professor, and both have held positions of public trust. Both are very friendly men, you have a good chance to meet either or both of them in person if you should attend the annual Dutch hunters rendezvous, as they have both made the effort to join the people who do get together for these outings. Anyone could then ask either or both of them directly and get answers right from them. I have as have many others I know of. I am proud to consider both men as friends, only wish that I had tried to meet them sooner. It is true that they have been partners and close friends for decades.

Helen Corbin passed away so we cannot address questions to her directly. However her first book is widely available and the relevant chapter or a portion of it has been posted.

I fail to see the devious motives being hinted at for these two men. As they had been contacted by many other Dutch hunters before Walter, and after as well, and as anyone can see here on T-net, it is quite common to hear someone state they have found the LDM. Hundreds of people make that claim, usually they are quite mistaken. Why should either Bob or Tom decide to surreptitiously obtain Walter's notes (he had given them after all) or have any belief that Walter had indeed found the LDM is not apparent to me. As Joe pointed out, memory is never perfect for anyone, and the way one remembers events at one point in time may be slightly different from the way the same events are remembered over 30 years later. In some cases greater detail may be recalled, in other cases details may be lost or fuddled.

I have no issue with Roland seeking answers to his questions, hope they can all be answered to his satisfaction.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roland,

Here is the issue, as I see it.......You have questions about the accounts, by Tom, concerning the true facts of what occurred after your father's death. Personally, I would probably have the same concerns if it had been my father. The problem, once again, as I see it, is that you have come to a public forum seeking questions that can only be answered by Tom himself. Everything you get from the members here is strictly hearsay. No one knows the absolute truth, other than the one man alive who lived the events you are interested in.

Many have joined into the conversation with opinions, obviously colored by there own agenda's and pre-conceived conclusions. It seems an exercise in futility for you to expect any real answers to your questions. Some, fueled by their own visions of their importance in.......everything, will jump on the bandwagon to denigrate the reputation of Tom Kollenborn and hoping to elevate their own reputations by their unqualified opinions and attacks.

Bottom line is you will find no answers here, unless Tom decides to post a reply. That seems highly unlikely to me. If you truly seek the answers to the truth of the matter, your best bet, IMHO, would be to contact Tom directly. He has mentioned to me that he would have no problem talking with you. Actually, it seems like a no brainer to me. Face to face would seem to be the best path for you.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo