Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[Hal Croves]

Just for the record here, before we start attaching nefarious motives and darken the character of Tom Kollenborn and Bob Corbin, anyone can look up their public biographies:

Tom Kollenborn Chronicles: Bio

Robert Corbin | The NRA Foundation Inc | ZoomInfo.com

It would not be incorrect to call either man professor, and both have held positions of public trust. Both are very friendly men, you have a good chance to meet either or both of them in person if you should attend the annual Dutch hunters rendezvous, as they have both made the effort to join the people who do get together for these outings. Anyone could then ask either or both of them directly and get answers right from them. I have as have many others I know of. I am proud to consider both men as friends, only wish that I had tried to meet them sooner. It is true that they have been partners and close friends for decades.

Helen Corbin passed away so we cannot address questions to her directly. However her first book is widely available and the relevant chapter or a portion of it has been posted.

I fail to see the devious motives being hinted at for these two men. As they had been contacted by many other Dutch hunters before Walter, and after as well, and as anyone can see here on T-net, it is quite common to hear someone state they have found the LDM. Hundreds of people make that claim, usually they are quite mistaken. Why should either Bob or Tom decide to surreptitiously obtain Walter's notes (he had given them after all) or have any belief that Walter had indeed found the LDM is not apparent to me. As Joe pointed out, memory is never perfect for anyone, and the way one remembers events at one point in time may be slightly different from the way the same events are remembered over 30 years later. In some cases greater detail may be recalled, in other cases details may be lost or fuddled.

I have no issue with Roland seeking answers to his questions, hope they can all be answered to his satisfaction.

"Hinted at"?.
You are way too kind.

 

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[deducer]

For once, I agree with Joe.

Roland, you would be best served by approaching Tom K. and Bob, and asking them directly, and respectfully of course. Chances are, there is something else to this tale that exonerates all involved except the imposter.

 

[cactusjumper]

For once, I agree with Joe.

Roland, you would be best served by approaching Tom K. and Bob, and asking them directly, and respectfully of course. Chances are, there is something else to this tale that exonerates all involved except the imposter.

deducer,

I have no illusions about my degrees of rightness, or wrongness at any given time. I am guilty of both charges.......on a regular basis. On the other hand, I do like to post in a positive manner.

Take care,

Joe

 

[nobodie]

Walter believed that J. Waltz found his gold in cowhide bags, that was left in the stone house at the bottom of the canyon by the Peraltas and not the mine.
W.G. Manuscript part 1, pgs. 8 &9,
" Just below the beginning of the wash he must have discovered a patch of trees or a grove of trees where he could hide and make camp while he scouted around soon he discovered a partially finished stone house down where the wash was wide and turning south; opposite on an easterly low slope he noticed several charcoal pits two of them had still grinding stones on the top side U shaped which told him he was on a mining side, investigating further down by the walls of the house he certainly must have found his gold, cowhide bags full in the walls,"
"Dick Holmes told Tex Barkeley he left 6-7 bags back there buried and hidden."

 

[Azquester]

Welcome back Hal!
Sorry you had to find all these people naked and afraid!

I don't think Roland has any intention of contacting TK. He's talked with him before and never got a clear answer why should he bother with it now?
He'll probably end up with a different version of events causing even more confusion that further muddies the water. There's been so many versions told by Tom over the years which one would you believe to be accurate? What I would tell Roland is use Occam's Razor. But that would require all things being equal which they are not because all these different versions of events have come from only one person. He's the equalizer.

Since there's no one else that can answer his questions he's at an impasse. Unless TK agreed to a lie detector test at the FBI I don't see anything being solved. The big question is why would someone make up so many accounts of the same story?
"Writers Privilege" is the only answer. For book sales. It was all made up and it never really happened. The fake Roland story that is. Whether he did ride out and meet with Walter that fateful day is probably his own fictional account. He only wishes he would have rode out there and been the one at his side while he lay dying in his arms. Writer's folly. Sensationalize the story line and re-write it including yourself into close proximity to the tragic event. It makes one look as important as the actual main character. Sells books.

"Hinted at"?.
You are way too kind.

 

[Hal Croves]

Welcome back Hal!
Sorry you had to find all these people naked and afraid!

I don't think Roland has any intention of contacting TK. He's talked with him before and never got a clear answer why should he bother with it now?
He'll probably end up with a different version of events causing even more confusion that further muddies the water. There's been so many versions told by Tom over the years which one would you believe to be accurate? What I would tell Roland is use Occam's Razor. But that would require all things being equal which they are not because all these different versions of events have come from only one person. He's the equalizer.

Since there's no one else that can answer his questions he's at an impasse. Unless TK agreed to a lie detector test at the FBI I don't see anything being solved. The big question is why would someone make up so many accounts of the same story?
"Writers Privilege" is the only answer. For book sales. It was all made up and it never really happened. The fake Roland story that is. Whether he did ride out and meet with Walter that fateful day is probably his own fictional account. He only wishes he would have rode out there and been the one at his side while he lay dying in his arms. Writer's folly. Sensationalize the story line and re-write it including yourself into close proximity to the tragic event. It makes one look as important as the actual main character. Sells books.

Bill,
"Tom Kollenborn is a noted author and historian of the Superstition Wilderness."

Creative license is the authors privilege.
Historians avoid it.
It really is that simple.

He certainly has the platform to explain it.
But I am not sure why he would.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Treasure-Hunter,

I posted this back on Nov. 20th.

I look forward to seeing Matthew Roberts taken off the banned list. I believe many others feel the same way. If so, perhaps they will also speak up.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

He earned his timeout....

 

[cactusjumper]

He earned his timeout....

TH,

Thank you for your reply. I don't know all the details, but I trust he has also earned his return.

Thanks again,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cw0909]

nobodie, please take no offense are you paraphrasing, or is this a quotation from the W.G. Manuscript

" Just below the beginning of the wash he must have discovered a patch of trees or a grove of trees where he could hide and make camp while he scouted around soon he discovered a partially finished stone house down where the wash was wide and turning south; opposite on an easterly low slope he noticed several charcoal pits two of them had still grinding stones on the top side U shaped which told him he was on a mining side, investigating further down by the walls of the house he certainly must have found his gold, cowhide bags full in the walls,"
"Dick Holmes told Tex Barkeley he left 6-7 bags back there buried and hidden."

Walter believed that J. Waltz found his gold in cowhide bags, that was left in the stone house at the bottom of the canyon by the Peraltas and not the mine.
W.G. Manuscript part 1, pgs. 8 &9,
" Just below the beginning of the wash he must have discovered a patch of trees or a grove of trees where he could hide and make camp while he scouted around soon he discovered a partially finished stone house down where the wash was wide and turning south; opposite on an easterly low slope he noticed several charcoal pits two of them had still grinding stones on the top side U shaped which told him he was on a mining side, investigating further down by the walls of the house he certainly must have found his gold, cowhide bags full in the walls,"
"Dick Holmes told Tex Barkeley he left 6-7 bags back there buried and hidden."

 

[nobodie]

can0909,
I hope that I'm not in trouble for posting from the manuscript?
Everything that I put in quotation marks are word for word from the manuscript, before I quoted the manuscript I wrote down part and pages. If there is anything wrong I'll stop.

 

[cw0909]

i didnt get to call the museum (480) 983-4888 today, i had a death in the family
and had to help out the fam members seeing to the details, but from reading
nobodie excerpts from the manuscript, i can see why folks thought maybe there
was something important in it, that might get them closer to waltz treasure

so who had advance reading to the manuscript b4 walters last trek into the S mts
i cant wait until tommorow to see if i can order Walter G. manuscript
and has anyone ever heard any thing/about/sounds like, the excerpts from the W.G
manuscript b4, that nobodie has posted. i cant remember ever reading any thing like
those excerpts, even though i havent hunted 50 yrs as a dutch lore hunter, you would
think i would have read something close to the excerpts in the last 5-7 yrs

 

[cw0909]

no its all good, just making sure you were/are posting direct quotes from
the manuscript, is there a copyright on the manuscript anywhere

can0909,
I hope that I'm not in trouble for posting from the manuscript?
Everything that I put in quotation marks are word for word from the manuscript, before I quoted the manuscript I wrote down part and pages. If there is anything wrong I'll stop.

 

[nobodie]

I don't see a copy right anywhere on the manuscript. Here's what it says,
cover page:
THE LOST PERALTA - DUTCHMAN MINE
BY
WALTER GASSLER
1983
Inside first page top left hand :
Rare Book Reprint
Superstition Mountain Museum
p.o. box address
1990 Copy of. Original
Superstition Mountain
Historical Society
It says nothing else. I believe that Mathew Roberts said he had a written copy and R.W.Gassler said he bought a copy to for $5.00. Those are the only copies that I know of that anyone admits to having. I use to buy anything on the selves. Now it's mostly repeated stuff. That's why I can't wait for Ryan's stuff to come out.

 

[nobodie]

cw0909,
I am sorry for your loss, a friend of mine just passed away. If I may ask what's the name of the family member?

 

[nobodie]

Bob Corban might have because it's like he is writing to a Bob, In a previous post is a quote from the manuscript with Bob's name in it. Here's another one with Bob's name.
Walters manuscript part 2,p.g. 5.
" The challenge and the promise I made Tex to find and share it was and still is foremost in my mind and my ambition. I just don't think I need all that gold that bad. I also would like to be incognito and a silent partner as I am of any age now that kind of likes peace and quiet, I am sure you understand Bob."

 

[cw0909]

cw0909,
I am sorry for your loss, a friend of mine just passed away. If I may ask what's the name of the family member?

his name is Paul in a midwest state, im going to check about the copyright on the manuscript prob will take some time though

sorry nobodie i cut off some of the cut paste

I am sorry for your loss too

 

[cw0909]

nobodie,here is a copy, are you close, maybe see if it looks like yours
Phoenix Public Library

 

[nobodie]

Sounds just like it, even the cost of $5.00. It might be the only copy out there. You may want to read it at the library. Good night everyone.

 

[RWGassler]

nobodie,
cw0909,
This still makes my blood boil to see SMHS taking credit for my fathers manuscript one which mysteriously shows up there for sale especially since no one in the family gave it to them, were notified or asked if it would be alright. If they are willing to make a copy, I would suggest that it just be given to whoever made the request. Even better, treat it like a library and you make your own copy.
Also, If I indicated that I purchased a copy, which I don't recall, that was not correct. I found that it was being sold there and asked how they had received it and who indicated it could be sold but did not purchase a copy. I'm sure there will be some "legal beagles" that will indicate that there was no copyright but this was not a document that was meant to be sold, it was a work of an individual that had a lifelong dream about finding the Lost Dutchman.
I hope you find the information you're looking for, good luck.
RWGassler

 

[Azquester]

Nobodie, cw909, Sorry for both your loses I've lost many family members around Xmas. Maybe the cold weather back east has something to do with it. But it makes for a emotional Christmas remembering to light all those candles and put them out.

Nobodie does Ryan have something about Gassler he's working on?

I don't see a copy right anywhere on the manuscript. Here's what it says,
cover page:
THE LOST PERALTA - DUTCHMAN MINE
BY
WALTER GASSLER
1983
Inside first page top left hand :
Rare Book Reprint
Superstition Mountain Museum
p.o. box address
1990 Copy of. Original
Superstition Mountain
Historical Society
It says nothing else. I believe that Mathew Roberts said he had a written copy and R.W.Gassler said he bought a copy to for $5.00. Those are the only copies that I know of that anyone admits to having. I use to buy anything on the selves. Now it's mostly repeated stuff. That's why I can't wait for Ryan's stuff to come out.