What is it ???

[old man]

Hey Ed, when I was partners with Tim Swieckowski our main project was to find the 1589 fleet. We sent a researcher to Spain and he got over 10,000 pages of documents on this fleet. There was a total of 14 ships that sank in this fleet including the four big galleons Jesus Maria commanded by Capt. Francisco Salvago, the La Trinidad commanded by Capt. Martin Monte, the Capitana of Honduras owned by Toribio Descalante and the flagship of the fleet, the Santa Catalina commanded by Admiral Alvaro Flores. Each one of the galleons are said to be worth over $1.3 BILLION! The Jesus Maria broke apart on the high seas and sank with all hands, no survivors. I have a chart where I plotted the daily course from one of he surviving ships logbook and I think they sank off the FL/GA border in 700' of water. Let me know if I can be of any help.

Pete,
Do you have a copy of the Manifest for that ship? I'd also be interested in knowing which Country it left port with filled with cargo? If by chance this is the ship that you mentioned, I want to get some experts involved in documenting the wreck and I want to return the artifacts to the Country of Origin to donate the artifacts for a museum or return them to the descendents of the passengers on board. It's too early to tell what wreck this is, but you never know. Hope to see you at the picnic. If you have the manifest could you post it

 

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[tarpon192]

What is the depth?

 

[Southern_Digger]

. . . the only thing that I could get an archeologist to ID and give me a time window on. I was told that it is a Spanish Olive Jar dated between 1550 and 1650. I'm only going by what I was told. Any ideas

I'm impressed with your discovery. However, I have some concerns being that a new Big Brother is overseeing the ocean blue. So, I have to open the can . . .. How can you possibly be permitted for that with the Big Guns competition out there (i,e.: Odyssey, ect.). Will Unesco respect the first permit application, that being yours, without granting it to others instead?; or, requesting a representative and of course, an approved U/W Arch. on the deck, counting every artifact and checking the list twice and still distrusting anyone who touches the wreck? Just curious how this will play out without costing major dollars up front--only to return the artifacts to their origin. Is it really worth the effort because now, you will be playing in someone else's sandbox and not getting reimbursed? Or, do you think Big Brother will give the salvors a cut of the action? And last, I'm somewhat ignorant to commercial fishing... Do they put out so much net where it can snag at 700-ft depth?

 

[find1000]

I live in the area and would be interested in helping.

 

[old man]

I'm impressed with your discovery. However, I have some concerns being that a new Big Brother is overseeing the ocean blue. So, I have to open the can . . .. How can you possibly be permitted for that with the Big Guns competition out there (i,e.: Odyssey, ect.). Will Unesco respect the first permit application, that being yours, without granting it to others instead?; or, requesting a representative and of course, an approved U/W Arch. on the deck, counting every artifact and checking the list twice and still distrusting anyone who touches the wreck? Just curious how this will play out without costing major dollars up front--only to return the artifacts to their origin. Is it really worth the effort because now, you will be playing in someone else's sandbox and not getting reimbursed? Or, do you think Big Brother will give the salvors a cut of the action? And last, I'm somewhat ignorant to commercial fishing... Do they put out so much net where it can snag at 700-ft depth?

Southerndigger, I respect Odyssey and think they are a great company. When an Admiralty Claim is filed on the site? If Odyssey or anyone else found the wreck first they can challenge the claim. I am not worried about Spain. If Spain's Attorney's want to challenge the claim on an unknown sailing vessel, so be it. Personally, I would rather work with all parties, ( Even Spain ) but if Spain wants to come after any artifacts recovered ( and no treasure has been recovered yet ) then I think Spain will have to go after the Country where the artifacts were originally taken. As that is were they will end up. Right now, no one including me knows anything about it being a Spanish wreck or a treasure wreck. ( It's nice to assume on my part, but you know where assume gets me).

All I originally wanted to know is if anyone could ID some of the pictures. Sorry, if I gave the impression that it was anything other then that. Also, I never said, that the depth was 700 feet. I didn't say and I won't.

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Ed, you want me to scan 100 pages then post it here? No, I can't do that. Instead I will make copies and give them to you at the cookout. Here is a sample:

 

[Trembull]

( It's nice to assume on my part, but you know where assume gets me).

Benny Hill says it perfectly

 

[tarpon192]

Thanks Dell, I always thought there was the possibility of wreckage from 2 different wrecks in the site. I just have one more question for you. Do you see any Green Stones in your dowsing The drop camera was attached to a down rigger ball and on one of the drops it hit an olive jar and what looked like about half a dozen little green stones were seen when the silt cleared.

As a hard core hoo fisherman (wahoo) could someone tell me how a camera was dropped to the site 700' deep with a downrigger ball to capture these images? The current alone would make it difficult. Also - it was stated no lights were on the camera! At that depth with no working lights It's dark - real dark.
Maybe with a real thin braided line to compensate for the current with a 20 pound torpedo on the other end. Damn - I hope it's an electric downrigger. I would not be able to pay a mate enough to crank it back up - lol!!!!

 

[old man]

As a hard core hoo fisherman (wahoo) could someone tell me how a camera was dropped to the site 700' deep with a downrigger ball to capture these images? The current alone would make it difficult. Also - it was stated no lights were on the camera! At that depth with no working lights It's dark - real dark.
Maybe with a real thin braided line to compensate for the current with a 20 pound torpedo on the other end. Damn - I hope it's an electric downrigger. I would not be able to pay a mate enough to crank it back up - lol!!!!

Tarpon, Nice post. However, I think you better go through all my posts and tell me where "I SAID", the water depth was 700 ft. ? Actually, I would like you to read my posts and tell everyone what depth. "I SAID", the wreck was in?
If you do that? I think it will answer your post. I say that with respect.

 

[stevemc]

I have several of these drop cameras, and they will be color if it is light enough, black and white if too fuzzy or dark. They have IR emitters, not visible light. Very small apeture so not great dark pictures. Old Man, looks like an olive jar, hard to say, but looks like it. As do some of the other things. See you at the get-together. Steve

 

[Southern_Digger]

Southerndigger, I respect Odyssey and think they are a great company. When an Admiralty Claim is filed on the site? If Odyssey or anyone else found the wreck first they can challenge the claim. I am not worried about Spain. If Spain's Attorney's want to challenge the claim on an unknown sailing vessel, so be it. Personally, I would rather work with all parties, ( Even Spain ) but if Spain wants to come after any artifacts recovered ( and no treasure has been recovered yet ) then I think Spain will have to go after the Country where the artifacts were originally taken. As that is were they will end up. Right now, no one including me knows anything about it being a Spanish wreck or a treasure wreck. ( It's nice to assume on my part, but you know where assume gets me).

All I originally wanted to know is if anyone could ID some of the pictures. Sorry, if I gave the impression that it was anything other then that. Also, I never said, that the depth was 700 feet. I didn't say and I won't.

Old Man... I agree with you regarding Odyssey. I drove over 500 miles round trip to see their gold steamship exhibit when it was at the museum in Tampa. I researched their business plan to see if there was a possibility that I could go to work for them. Soon after, I attempted to gather Th'er's and their clubs across Florida for a weekend event and I had preliminary arrangements with Odyssey to attend and provide a program. I was focusing on Clearwater Beach area for the gathering. Unfortunately, since planning that, I suffered two deaths in the family (both parents) and am still attempting to mop up their unfinished business left behind. I have had little time since then to arrange anything. Neither, did I imply that Odyssey would take the project from you. I was actually suggesting that Unesco decision-makers might prefer to have Odyssey on the project due to their track record. If. Admiralty Law is honored by all, then you should not have a problem. Also, in reading this thread, I had the impression that Salvor6 was working with you on this project. Guess I mixed his comments with yours by mistake. However, for your sake, I hope the wreck is not in international waters. I think it would make it easier for you in the long run. Furthermore, it would be nice for you if it is one of those missing fleet ships from Spain. I'm rooting for you. Last, I am hoping to make the picnic and see everyone again but don't know if possible due to conflicts with my work schedule. Time will tell. Also, got your PM and I am uncertain if that is the individual who went to salvage a wreck off south America. I was referring to a salvage effort that occured over 35 years ago. Good luck and thanks for the PM.

 

[old man]

Old Man... I agree with you regarding Odyssey. I drove over 500 miles round trip to see their gold steamship exhibit when it was at the museum in Tampa. I researched their business plan to see if there was a possibility that I could go to work for them. Soon after, I attempted to gather Th'er's and their clubs across Florida for a weekend event and I had preliminary arrangements with Odyssey to attend and provide a program. I was focusing on Clearwater Beach area for the gathering. Unfortunately, since planning that, I suffered two deaths in the family (both parents) and am still attempting to mop up their unfinished business left behind. I have had little time since then to arrange anything. Neither, did I imply that Odyssey would take the project from you. I was actually suggesting that Unesco decision-makers might prefer to have Odyssey on the project due to their track record. If. Admiralty Law is honored by all, then you should not have a problem. Also, in reading this thread, I had the impression that Salvor6 was working with you on this project. Guess I mixed his comments with yours by mistake. However, for your sake, I hope the wreck is not in international waters. I think it would make it easier for you in the long run. Furthermore, it would be nice for you if it is one of those missing fleet ships from Spain. I'm rooting for you. Last, I am hoping to make the picnic and see everyone again but don't know if possible due to conflicts with my work schedule. Time will tell. Also, got your PM and I am uncertain if that is the individual who went to salvage a wreck off south America. I was referring to a salvage effort that occured over 35 years ago. Good luck and thanks for the PM.

Southerndigger, First of all my condolences on the loss of your parents. I do know how you feel. I lost both of my parents when I was 23 yrs old and had to raise 3 younger sisters. The youngest was 12. My prayers are with you.
Secondly, I'm getting old and don't remember sending you a PM. Could you copy it and send it back to refresh my memory.
Pete, is a friend and while we haven't spoken in person about this wreck. I am sure that Pete and anyone that wants to, is welcome to work on the project.

 

[tarpon192]

Tarpon, Nice post. However, I think you better go through all my posts and tell me where "I SAID", the water depth was 700 ft. ? Actually, I would like you to read my posts and tell everyone what depth. "I SAID", the wreck was in?
If you do that? I think it will answer your post. I say that with respect.

You stated no depth - only international waters. State, federal, then international waters. International is pretty far. Others stated 700' for that fleet. I was just asking. SOOOOOOOO EVERYONE - OLD MAN DID NOT DISCLOSE THE DEPTH - SORRY!!! MY MISTAKE.
Like Darren said " sometimes you just gotta dive"..
Good luck.