What REALLY happened to the wealth of Knights Templar

[Rebel - KGC]

TYPICAL lamar! In a TIZZY! Stuck in yer "box" TAINTED by the UNHOLY Church of ROME... SELECTIVE readings; SELECTIVE history; SCRIPTED "reality". YOU are STUCK! OTHERS have FREE WILL, to do their own RESEARCH & INVESTIGATION.

 

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[lamar]

TYPICAL lamar! In a TIZZY! Stuck in yer "box" TAINTED by the UNHOLY Church of ROME... SELECTIVE readings; SELECTIVE history; SCRIPTED "reality". YOU are STUCK! OTHERS have FREE WILL, to do their own RESEARCH & INVESTIGATION.

Dear Rebel-KGC;
I am having a secular discussion about the HISTORICAL Knights Templars. Because the Knights Templars were a Roman Catholic military monastic Order, the archives of the Roman Catholic Church are excellent sources of information regarding these unique monks. Please note that my discussion is centered around historical facts which can be verified. Please note that I do not wish to entertain any notions of the collective fate of the Templars after they were disbanded by the Papacy, because they no longer existed as a religious Order.

There is NO HISTORICAL PROOF that the Templars existed as a secret Order after they were disbanded. That particular fantasy makes for good fireside reading, however it is nothing more than a fanciful myth. You keep trying to associate the Templars with the Masons, however you may rest assured that the Templars had no hand in the masonic organization. The masons simply made up a history of the Templars in order to add a bit of credence to their fraternity. Even masons who are also historians state that the masonic tale of the Templar Order is nothing more than a fanciful yarn. As always, you are free to do whatever it is that you wish, however your *research* cannot and will not re-write history.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL... NOT "re-writing" history; Just adding "up-dates", if you will. I know you want FACTS; HOWEVER! Once upon a time... it was a FACT, that the Earth was FLAT! Once upon a time, if you sailed the oceans... you would fall off the EDGE! Once upon a time, the EARTH was the CENTER of the Universe! Once upon at time, MAN could NOT fly... and THAT was a FACT! NOW! FREEMASONIC KNIGHTS TEMPLAR just may have the "knowledge" I "posted" about; I am sure the RCC/UN-
HOLY CHURCH OF ROME would have been THREATENED by such "knowledge" and was RUTHLESS in the "destruction" of various Esoteric Orders, Secret Societies, Heretical "cults" (as seen by RCC), etc. SO!
FREE-WILL Research & Investigation MAY well open some eyes! DO IT!

 

[lamar]

LOL... NOT "re-writing" history; Just adding "up-dates", if you will. I know you want FACTS; HOWEVER! Once upon a time... it was a FACT, that the Earth was FLAT! Once upon a time, if you sailed the oceans... you would fall off the EDGE! Once upon a time, the EARTH was the CENTER of the Universe! Once upon at time, MAN could NOT fly... and THAT was a FACT! NOW! FREEMASONIC KNIGHTS TEMPLAR just may have the "knowledge" I "posted" about; I am sure the RCC/UN-
HOLY CHURCH OF ROME would have been THREATENED by such "knowledge" and was RUTHLESS in the "destruction" of various Esoteric Orders, Secret Societies, Heretical "cults" (as seen by RCC), etc. SO!
FREE-WILL Research & Investigation MAY well open some eyes! DO IT!

Dear Rebel-KGC;
The Roman Catholic Church only dissolved one Order throughout Her illustrious and proud history, and that was the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and the Temple of Solomon. A large part of the reason WHY the Order was dissolved was because of it's secret initiation ceremonies. In light of this, as far as I am aware, the ONLY Roman Catholic organization currently in existence with a secret initiation ceremony are the Knights of Columbus and, to the very best of my knowledge a priest is present to ensure that nothing is said or done which is contrary to the teachings of the Holy Mother Church.

And no, people did not always believe the world was flat. Since you are such a big fan of Google search, Google *Ptolemy*. He was the first known mathematician to have proved mathematically that the world was round. It has been surmised that there may have been others before Ptolemy who thought the world was a sphere, yet there does not exist enough surviving proof to prove this conclusively.
Your friend;
LAMAR
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You do have your selective history of the original KT; I am MORE "focused" on FREEMASONIC KT; which I am NOT one, although I am RAM and can be, if I choose. YOU, however... know NOTHING about FREEMASONIC KT, nor of SCOTTISH RITE FREEMASONRY, of which I am 32nd degree. I was ALSO 12th degree ROSICRUCIAN in my younger days, and have done LOTS of R & I
on R+C; still do, in connection with my interest areas.

 

[lamar]

You do have your selective history of the original KT; I am MORE "focused" on FREEMASONIC KT; which I am NOT one, although I am RAM and can be, if I choose. YOU, however... know NOTHING about FREEMASONIC KT, nor of SCOTTISH RITE FREEMASONRY, of which I am 32nd degree. I was ALSO 12th degree ROSICRUCIAN in my younger days, and have done LOTS of R & I
on R+C; still do, in connection with my interest areas.

Dear Rebel-KGC;
I know nothing of the history of the masons nor do I have a particular desire to learn. I am not permitted to join the masons as membership in that fraternity is strictly forbidden to Roman Catholics, due to their esoteric teachings. The so-called Templars of freemasonry are pure fantasy, my friend. It's like an early re-enactment of sorts and nothing more than this. By all rights, they should not even title themselves as *Templars* as that name was the name of a Roman Catholic military Order and as such, it belongs exclusively to the Roman Catholic Church.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

I know you want FACTS; HOWEVER! Once upon a time... it was a FACT, that the Earth was FLAT! Once upon a time, if you sailed the oceans... you would fall off the EDGE!

You may wish to check your resources if you believe the myth that people thought the world was flat

Dear SWR;
Yes, this is true, my friend. I do not know why people today persist in proclaiming that everyone during the Medieval period assumed that the world was flat when history tells us this simply was not the case. Ptolemy is the earliest recorded mathematician who proved mathematically that the world was spherical and this was in the 1st century AD! Even St. Augustine theorized a spherical Earth in the 3rd century AD and he was one of the Early Church Fathers!

Even in the 8th century AD we can plainly see that the *orb* which was depicted in paintings of kings throughout Europe and the Holy Roman Empire was a depiction of the Earth and it was spherical. Even Dante's Divine Comedy of the 14th Century depicts the Earth as a sphere. The Roman Catholic priest Nicolaus Copernicus finally put the issue to rest once and for in AD 1542 by proving mathematically that the Earth and the other planets orbited the Sun and he published his work immediately prior to expiring.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos,

Without addressing the "flat earth" idea, which is so commonly claimed as never having been common belief (better check with St Augustine amigo, and the "four corners" argument again) our amigo Lamar made this statement;

Dear Rebel-KGC;
The Roman Catholic Church only dissolved one Order throughout Her illustrious and proud history

Hmm are you absolutely certain about this point amigo?
Oroblanco

 

[lamar]

Hola amigos,

Without addressing the "flat earth" idea, which is so commonly claimed as never having been common belief (better check with St Augustine amigo, and the "four corners" argument again) our amigo Lamar made this statement;

Dear Rebel-KGC;
The Roman Catholic Church only dissolved one Order throughout Her illustrious and proud history

Hmm are you absolutely certain about this point amigo?
Oroblanco

Dear Oroblanco;
I am fairly certain of it, yes. The Jesuits were suppressed for 40 years and even the Templars have managed to rise like the phoenix with the blessings of the Apostolic See after a short absence of only 667 odd years.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Oroblanco]

What about the Order of the Brothers of the Sword? (Disbanded by papal order, 1237)

 

[lamar]

What about the Order of the Brothers of the Sword? (Disbanded by papal order, 1237)

Dear Oroblanco;
The Livonian Brothers of the Sword were not disbanded by the Papacy my friend. After they received a royal behind whupping in AD 1236 at the Battle of Saule, the remnants asked to be incorporated into the Teutonic Knights. The Papacy made the incorporation official in AD 1237 by disbanding the Order and permitting the remaining members to become Teutonic Knights. The Pope had to dissolve the Order as a purely prefunctionary measure in order to relieve the surviving knights of their vows to the Brotherhood of Sword, thus permitting them to swear new vows in order to become Teutonic Knights. The sad truth of the matter is that after the Battle of Saule, the surviving membership were not enough to continue keeping the Order functional.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Oroblanco]

Then you are making a misleading statement, for "dissolve" to most people equates with "disband". I certainly do.
Oroblanco

 

[lamar]

Then you are making a misleading statement, for "dissolve" to most people equates with "disband". I certainly do.
Oroblanco

Dear Oroblanco;
No, my friend, I do not feel that I made a misleading statement, when the context of the entire statement is taken into consideration. In truth, there is no Papal Bull which was written in AD 1237 or any other time, regarding the Livonian Brotherhood of the Sword, according to official Church records. The list of Papal Bulls for the year AD 1237 is as follows:

09 Feb 1237- Licet velut ignisThe Letter of Pope Gregory IX to all the Poor Clares establishing the practice of perpetual abstinence from meat in all their monasteries

09 Apr 1237 Cum sicut propositum The Letter of Pope Gregory IX to the Poor Clares of the Monastery of St. Francis, Prague, conceding the power of dispensation for the sake of the cold climate to their Abbess

14 Apr 1237 Prudentibus virginibus The Letter of William, the vice-chancellor of the Roman Church, receiving the Monastery of St. Francis, Prague, into the patronage of the Apostolic See and establishing it as a Monastery of Poor Clares

And that is the bulk of the Bulls for the year AD 1237 inclusively as they pertain to Roman Catholic Monastic Orders.

Further research has determined that the Livonian Brotherhood of the Sword asked for, and were received into the Teutonic Knights as an autonomous Order. After joining the Teutonic Knights, an old and honorable Germanic Crusading Order,the Livonian Brotherhood of the Sword became known simply as the Livonian Order which they remained a part of until AD 1561 when they became secularized as a Lutheran titular organization.

According to Church records of AD 1237, there was no Papal Bull officially disbanding the Brotherhood of the Sword to the very best of my knowledge, however the Brotherhood of the Sword would have needed some type of Papal approval in order to join forces with the Teutonic Knights in order to have remained a valid and licit monastic Order within the Roman Catholic Church.

Please note that even though the Brotherhood joined with the Teutonic Knights, they remained completely autonomous in all aspects, including following their own previous Rule, the wearing their former habits and appointing their own Grand Master.

To sum up, the Brotherhood of the Sword did not disband, they allied themselves with the stronger and more powerful Teutonic Knights to everyone's mutual benefit. In short, my previous statement was NOT misleading as no dissolution occurred. It was a nice try though.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

I know you want FACTS; HOWEVER! Once upon a time... it was a FACT, that the Earth was FLAT! Once upon a time, if you sailed the oceans... you would fall off the EDGE!

You may wish to check your resources if you believe the myth that people thought the world was flat

Dear SWR;
Yes, this is true, my friend. I do not know why people today persist in proclaiming that everyone during the Medieval period assumed that the world was flat when history tells us this simply was not the case. Ptolemy is the earliest recorded mathematician who proved mathematically that the world was spherical and this was in the 1st century AD! Even St. Augustine theorized a spherical Earth in the 3rd century AD and he was one of the Early Church Fathers!

Even in the 8th century AD we can plainly see that the *orb* which was depicted in paintings of kings throughout Europe and the Holy Roman Empire was a depiction of the Earth and it was spherical. Even Dante's Divine Comedy of the 14th Century depicts the Earth as a sphere. The Roman Catholic priest Nicolaus Copernicus finally put the issue to rest once and for in AD 1542 by proving mathematically that the Earth and the other planets orbited the Sun and he published his work immediately prior to expiring.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Greetings Lamar...nice seeing you again

Throwing myths around as if they are facts is so overrated. Do these people actually think it advances their agenda in a discussion?

Thank you for all of your educational posts

Dear SWR;
Thank you, my friend. I always try to present the historical facts of the matter because fiction simply will not make a treasure cache magically appear.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Rebel - KGC]

FLAT EARTH SOCIETY to "upping" the TEMPLAR Treasure... INDEED!

 

[Oroblanco]

Not to get real picky here, but does it even require the issuance of a Papal Bull to dissolve, disband or otherwise do away with an Order? I don't think it is a requirement. There are a number of former Orders which no longer exist, ala le Order of the Garter for example - with no need of a Bull to establish the dis-establishment. (Order of the Garter exists today, but as a Protestant Order not Catholic.)

Lamar wrote

<snip>....make a treasure cache magically appear.

Hmm, now where have I seen an incantation to find hidden treasures, magically?
Oh yes, NOW I remember;
http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/jesuit.htm#chap11

There never were any treasures, there never were any treasures, there never were any treasures, just keep repeating it maybe some will believe.
Oroblanco

 

[lamar]

Not to get real picky here, but does it even require the issuance of a Papal Bull to dissolve, disband or otherwise do away with an Order? I don't think it is a requirement. There are a number of former Orders which no longer exist, ala le Order of the Garter for example - with no need of a Bull to establish the dis-establishment. (Order of the Garter exists today, but as a Protestant Order not Catholic.)

Lamar wrote

<snip>....make a treasure cache magically appear.

Hmm, now where have I seen an incantation to find hidden treasures, magically?
Oh yes, NOW I remember;
http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/jesuit.htm#chap11

There never were any treasures, there never were any treasures, there never were any treasures, just keep repeating it maybe some will believe.
Oroblanco

Dear Oroblanco;
The latest Code of Canon Law as it pertains to monastic Orders:
CHAPTER I.

RELIGIOUS HOUSES AND THEIR ERECTION AND SUPPRESSION

Can. 608 A religious community must live in a legitimately established house under the authority of a superior designated according to the norm of law. Each house is to have at least an oratory in which the Eucharist is to be celebrated and reserved so that it is truly the center of the community.

Can. 609 §1. Houses of a religious institute are erected by the authority competent according to the constitutions, with the previous written consent of the diocesan bishop.

§2. In addition, the permission of the Apostolic See is required to erect a monastery of nuns.

Can. 610 §1. The erection of houses takes place with consideration for their advantage to the Church and the institute and with suitable safeguards for those things which are required to carry out properly the religious life of the members according to the proper purposes and spirit of the institute.

§2. No house is to be erected unless it can be judged prudently that the needs of the members will be provided for suitably.

Can. 611 The consent of the diocesan bishop to erect a religious house of any institute entails the right:

1/ to lead a life according to the character and proper purposes of the institute;

2/ to exercise the works proper to the institute according to the norm of law and without prejudice to the conditions attached to the consent;

3/ for clerical institutes to have a church, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 1215, §3 and to perform sacred ministries, after the requirements of the law have been observed.

Can. 612 For a religious house to be converted to apostolic works different from those for which it was established, the consent of the diocesan bishop is required, but not if it concerns a change which refers only to internal governance and discipline, without prejudice to the laws of the foundation.

Can. 613 §1. A religious house of canons regular or of monks under the governance and care of its own moderator is autonomous unless the constitutions state otherwise.

§2. The moderator of an autonomous house is a major superior by law.

Can. 614 Monasteries of nuns associated to an institute of men maintain their own way of life and governance according to the constitutions. Mutual rights and obligations are to be defined in such a way that spiritual good can come from the association.

Can. 615 An autonomous monastery which does not have another major superior besides its own moderator and is not associated to another institute of religious in such a way that the superior of the latter possesses true power over such a monastery as determined by the constitutions is entrusted to the special vigilance of the diocesan bishop according to the norm of law.

Can. 616 §1. The supreme moderator can suppress a legitimately erected religious house according to the norm of the constitutions, after the diocesan bishop has been consulted. The proper law of the institute is to make provision for the goods of the suppressed house, without prejudice to the intentions of the founders or donors or to legitimately acquired rights.

§2. The suppression of the only house of an institute belongs to the Holy See, to which the decision regarding the goods in that case is also reserved.

§3. To suppress the autonomous house mentioned in ⇒ can. 613 belongs to the general chapter, unless the constitutions state otherwise.

§4. To suppress an autonomous monastery of nuns belongs to the Apostolic See, with due regard to the prescripts of the constitutions concerning its goods.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Furness]

Hello Lamar,

Sorry for the delay in replying, yes i agree about the clothing when i mentioned the colour blue for French Knights and yellow for the Italian Knights i was referring to the cross not the surcoat,
one of the problems is we can read a great deal in history books and statements written in them, but rarely have a reference as to where the original letter is that the writer quotes,

in this i refer to the mention that most people thought the earth was flat, at that time yes many did, even during Columbus's voyage in his report to his sponsors after returning he mentions that he had to quell rebelion among his crew because many were fearfull of sailing off the edge and believed the earth was flat, this is quoted in many history books even today, and even after the American astronauts had shown pictures of the earth the flat earth society, (that still existed) believed the pictures were doctored and it was a conspiracy, it ws;nt until quite a few trips had been made that they finally admitted the truth to themselves and disbanded, and we are talking about citizens hundreds of years ago who had no education, other than gossip

I'm still not convinced that the shields were not painted until i see something other than that which you mention, as it is extremely ambiguous, i have read an order that knights were requested not to paint there shields with their own emblems and not part of the code of dress,
this could be construed that shields were painted,

also sorry, whilst the paint you mention was not as colour fast as modern synthetics, it changed very little in it's ingredients since it's invention and is recorded as being used by both the Egyptian and Chinese 2,000 yrs ago, paint was basically the same when the KT were formed up until the 1960's, I'm talking now of the stuff you would buy for painting windows and doors or any wooden object, linseed oil as a binder, and white lead,
the only changes were to the coloured pigments used, apart from the new colours we have today, some of which did not appear until after about 1600, but even in the period we are talking about most colours were available as earth or vegetable pigments,
white lead is also quite weather proof, but not totally, prolonged rain or sunshine, dry or wet conditions affected the timber,

a wooden shield without paint would not last very long, in any climate, and wood will and does move with the moisture content changing,
shields were made from narrow pieces of timber and probably glued together with hide and hoof glue, a layer of linen then being glued to the face, exactly the same glue as we still use today,

even using oil to protect the wood if it is not painted does not work as the glue will take up the oil and soften and fail,

regarding the belief about the position of the cross being in the centre whereas it is as you stated on the left, that is probably down to Richard the Lion heart,
as king of England he used the English cross (yes i do know what my national flag looks like) on the centre of his surcoat, and confusion has reigned ever since, despite the papal bul saying where it should go, he was the king and not subject to that order, or if he was as king and equal to the pope he ignored it,
as King his status was considered at least as high as the pope, the archbishop who was the popes representative was his councillor regarding ecclesiastical matters, but still subject to the king,

regards

furness

 

[lamar]

Hello Lamar,

Sorry for the delay in replying, yes i agree about the clothing when i mentioned the colour blue for French Knights and yellow for the Italian Knights i was referring to the cross not the surcoat,
one of the problems is we can read a great deal in history books and statements written in them, but rarely have a reference as to where the original letter is that the writer quotes,

in this i refer to the mention that most people thought the earth was flat, at that time yes many did, even during Columbus's voyage in his report to his sponsors after returning he mentions that he had to quell rebelion among his crew because many were fearfull of sailing off the edge and believed the earth was flat, this is quoted in many history books even today, and even after the American astronauts had shown pictures of the earth the flat earth society, (that still existed) believed the pictures were doctored and it was a conspiracy, it ws;nt until quite a few trips had been made that they finally admitted the truth to themselves and disbanded, and we are talking about citizens hundreds of years ago who had no education, other than gossip

I'm still not convinced that the shields were not painted until i see something other than that which you mention, as it is extremely ambiguous, i have read an order that knights were requested not to paint there shields with their own emblems and not part of the code of dress,
this could be construed that shields were painted,

also sorry, whilst the paint you mention was not as colour fast as modern synthetics, it changed very little in it's ingredients since it's invention and is recorded as being used by both the Egyptian and Chinese 2,000 yrs ago, paint was basically the same when the KT were formed up until the 1960's, I'm talking now of the stuff you would buy for painting windows and doors or any wooden object, linseed oil as a binder, and white lead,
the only changes were to the coloured pigments used, apart from the new colours we have today, some of which did not appear until after about 1600, but even in the period we are talking about most colours were available as earth or vegetable pigments,
white lead is also quite weather proof, but not totally, prolonged rain or sunshine, dry or wet conditions affected the timber,

a wooden shield without paint would not last very long, in any climate, and wood will and does move with the moisture content changing,
shields were made from narrow pieces of timber and probably glued together with hide and hoof glue, a layer of linen then being glued to the face, exactly the same glue as we still use today,

even using oil to protect the wood if it is not painted does not work as the glue will take up the oil and soften and fail,

regarding the belief about the position of the cross being in the centre whereas it is as you stated on the left, that is probably down to Richard the Lion heart,
as king of England he used the English cross (yes i do know what my national flag looks like) on the centre of his surcoat, and confusion has reigned ever since, despite the papal bul saying where it should go, he was the king and not subject to that order, or if he was as king and equal to the pope he ignored it,
as King his status was considered at least as high as the pope, the archbishop who was the popes representative was his councillor regarding ecclesiastical matters, but still subject to the king,

regards

furness

Dear furness;
despite the papal bul saying where it should go, he was the king and not subject to that order, or if he was as king and equal to the pope he ignored it,
And that is what started the Anglican Church, my friend. As Roman Catholics, we are all subject to the authority of the Pope in all things spiritual. Even the monarchy is subject to the same authority, because even though a person may have been an emperor, that person was still a Roman Catholic and therefore still subjected to the higher ecclesiastical authority of the Papacy.

Continuing forward, the Primitive Rule forbade devices on shields and lances. We must always bear in mind that the Roman Catholic Military Orders of the day were stripped-down, leaned out forces. The individual Templar or Hospitaller was often extremely poverty stricken and as such, none could afford any finery of any type. The Rule also forbade any adornments on saddles or bits. It even went as far as forbidding shoes with pointed toes or laces.

We also also keep in mind that virtually all renditions of the Templars depict them dressed head to toe in white. This simply was not how it was. The habits were generally brown or black in color, and always the same color, with a white cloak. Also, only those Templars which had professed a perpetual vow of chastity were permitted to have cowls on their capes. All other Templar knights wore the cloak sans cowl. Also, something else which is rarely depicted in modern artwork regarding the Templars is the fact that the white cloak was only removed when bathing. It was worn about the knight at all other times. It was a raincoat, a sunshield, a tent, a sleeping bag and a shroud, all rolled into one item of clothing.

Templars were not permitted to wear surcoats, therefore the white cloak became their one item of clothing which identified them as being Templars. Again, please note that the red cross was never worn on the back of the cloak. It was only displayed on the left side of the cloak at the the breast. It was also anywhere for 4" to 8" in height and width, most likely depending on the availability of red cloth.

The Templars, along with the rest of the Roman Catholic Military Orders of the day, were deadly serious men with a deadly serious purpose. They spent their existence as Military monks either praying training or fighting the infidel. As such, they had no time for the pomp and splendor of the courtly ways of the day. Virtually every aspect of their lives was strictly regulated and because of this, knights of the Monastic Military Orders shunned contact with secular knights and their secular ways.

And of course, this led to another sore point between the Roman Catholic Military Orders and the secular nobility in the Holy Lands. Almost from the outset, the Roman Catholic Military Orders in the Holy Lands embarked on one long, extended recruitment drive for new members, equipment and financial support. Virtually all the Orders were desparately short of trained knights with their armor and equipment and therefore they were intent on recruiting as many secular knights as they possibly could. The situation deteriorated to such a point that before long secular noblemen were forbidding the knights and squires under their charge from having any contact with any member of any Military Order. When a European noblemen arrived in the Holy Lands with 40 highly trained, armed, armored, equipped and financially supported knights, only to see half of them joining a Military Order, the situation required immediate attention.

If you still reside in the UK, I would highly suggest visiting as many Templar and Hospitaller churches as possible, my friend. From the construction of these structures you will soon gain an understanding of the severe austerity of the Roman Catholic Military Orders. Functionality was key and everything else was scorned. They did not believe in stained glass, intricately carved facades, elaborate designs or anything else that was not puritan in purpose. All of the artwork to the existing structures of the Roman Catholic Military Orders was added at later dates.

The fact remains that there exists VERY little written accounts of the Military Orders during the Crusades, my friend. If I cannot attribute a quote back to a reliable source, I then consider it to be unfounded as factual. Even reliable source documents can be subjected to intentional misinterpretations. A good example of this would be a recently discovered document, the Chinon Parhment. Once discovered, the media immediately cried "Templars were INNOCENT of all charges!" This cannot be further from the truth than it already is. In the document, the accused knights admitted their heresies and blasphemies to a Papal Commission and they were then forgiven their sins by the same Commission. They admitted their guilt and they also refuted certain charges, thus the Papal Commission took the accused upon their word of honor and only forgave the sins which the knights admitted to having committed. The Commission did NOT pass judgement on those heresies and blasphemies that the knights did not admit to, as the Commission was not charged to try the accused knights. And that is the gist of it, my friend. What no one remembers is that Papal Commissions did NOT have ANY secular authority whatsoever, and the sins which the knights had committed were ALSO CRIMES against the secular governments of the day. And so, they still had to pay for their crimes, even though the sins which attached to those crimes were forgiven.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Oroblanco]

Lamar wrote

Dear Oroblanco;
The latest Code of Canon Law as it pertains to monastic Orders:

Thank you Lamar, are you taking the position that this current code of Canon Law as it pertains to monastic Orders, is the same as it was in 1237? Thank you in advance;

SWR wrote

Not to get picky here :::rolls eyes::: but, there seems to be quite the difference in A conjuration for the spirit who has hidden treasure and make a treasure cache magically appear

Hopefully, you were just tryin' to be funny

Actually yes it was an attempt at humor, however if you read that conjuration, it is "magically making a treasure cache appear". I didn't write it either, but Lamar's comment sounded funny when there were such magic spells, whether they actually worked or not who can say.

Oroblanco