Why did Travis Tumlinson Fake the Stone Maps as a Hoax?

[cactusjumper]

 

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[somehiker]

Marius:

The trail is dangerous IMO, but will never be seen by anyone from any point higher than about your belt buckle.

PELIGROZA .... as carved on the P stone.

Think of the beginning as A
And the end as P

 

[cactusjumper]

Marius:

The trail is dangerous IMO, but will never be seen by anyone from any point higher than about your belt buckle.

PELIGROZA .... as carved on the P stone.

Think of the beginning as A
And the end as P

Wayne,

You saying Eli had something to do with the Stone Maps Must be something else.

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Wayne,

You saying Eli had something to do with the Stone Maps Must be something else.

Joe

Nah, but maybe one of the guys who put gold bars in Harry's cave did.
Or at least a cave similar in nature to the ones that Harry and Bob Brady described.
Starts out with a low ceiling and ends with plenty of room to stand.
Doesn't sound all that dangerous, but then again both men got sick and died.
So did the one that fell through a hole, but managed to crawl out somehow with a broken leg.
That one was high enough inside for a life sized statue, by his description.
He might have found another way to crawl out.
Won't even get into the Perrine and Williams caves.
What I'm "suggesting" is that the map trail is actually under the topography.....IMHO.
Of course, I could be wrong.

Take care:Wayne

 

[EarnieP]

Which is;

Heavier? Gold or Guilt.
More valuable? Gold or Time.
Shinier? Gold or New Love.
Once tarnished, easier to re-shine? Gold or Trust?
Softer? Gold or The Head of a Dutchman Hunter.
Deeper shaft? Dutchman's Mine or Federal Tax System.
More difficult to decipher? Peralta Stone Trails or Bill and Markmar's Picture Trails.

 

[somehiker]

Which is;

Heavier? Gold or Guilt.
More valuable? Gold or Time.
Shinier? Gold or New Love.
Once tarnished, easier to re-shine? Gold or Trust?
Softer? Gold or The Head of a Dutchman Hunter.
Deeper shaft? Dutchman's Mine or Federal Tax System.
More difficult to decipher? Peralta Stone Trails or Bill and Markmar's Picture Trails.

a: ask Dick Holmes
b: with enough gold, you can cover both arms in Rolex's
c: gold....but when they're younger than me, they all smell like a new car
d: gold...warm water and dish soap Trust....same thing works for getting that new car smell off, before the wife gets a sniff
e: gold is always softer than rocks
f: FTS...cause you would probably be able to climb back out of the LDM.
e: I don't get headaches lookin at the stones

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

uh Earnie, Gold doesn't tarnidh, Silver yes, but your message is clear

 

[EarnieP]

No tarnish? Darn I think I did hear that somewhere.

But what's with those 'black' balls of gold hiding out there somewhere in the California desert?
What's the 'black'?

Thanks for keeping me straight, Real. I have a tendency to swerve off the road when I don't focus.

 

[somehiker]

Pure gold does not tarnish, but of course can get dusty, dirty, or stained by other means.
Anything less than 24 karat can and will tarnish over time. Jewelry, coins, bullion and statues etc.
This would also apply to raw gold as found in less than 24 carat form.

 

[markmar]

Marius:

The trail is dangerous IMO, but will never be seen by anyone from any point higher than about your belt buckle.

PELIGROZA .... as carved on the P stone.

Think of the beginning as A
And the end as P

Wayne

To climb up is always easier than to climb downward . In the most cases you can climb up without ropes and special climbing gear .
The stone trail was made to climb up . A difficult path but not impossible to climb it .
Also , I would like to see the trail diagram on your picture or in your interested area .

 

[EarnieP]

"To climb up is always easier than to climb downward."

True words, markmar, I've gotten myself in trouble more than once because of that fact.
If you have to climb down the same pathway, it's harder to find footholds because your toes don't have eyes.

 

[Old]

You may actually be close to the bone here, hiker. This whole Travis/Clyde relationship is intriguing to say the least. Since we don't know what it actually was, we can speculate. No law against speculation. Until we do know all the details - if that is even feasible - many possibilities remain on the table. I know Ryan says, "No, no, no," but ... hmmm.

Fact: we know that Travis and Clyde had some sort of relationship beginning when both criminals served time together in a Texas prison in the early 1930s and apparently continuing after their releases. This later contact - whatever it was - happened during the Barrow Gang crime spree that included 12-15 bank robberies, possibly dozens of other commercial robberies, and at least 13 murders.

Fact: the bank robberies alone averaged about $2,500/pop. That's about $35,000 cash, total, early 30s dollars. That's about 1700 ounces of gold @$20.67/tr oz. To put it in perspective, in today's money, for the bank robberies alone, the gang walked off with maybe $2,250,000 cash ($160,000/bank).

Speculation: assume half or three-quarters of the bank loot can be accounted for - recovered; divvied up among the gang; the cost of doing business; and the daily expense of living like bank robbers (ha ha). That potentially leaves a quarter of the loot, $500,000 (three or four robberies worth), that remained unrecovered and unaccounted for following the end of the fun for Bonnie and Clyde in 1934. We can further speculate that the gang might have cached some or all of this along the crime trail.

Speculation: let's put our tinfoil hats on and wonder if Clyde might have asked his old con pal Travis about a good place in Texas to hide some cash until they needed it later. Let's say they hid a couple hundred thousand or more (today's value) and died in Louisiana before they could come back for it. What would keep Travis from harvesting a couple bags of cash that Bonnie and Clyde would never have a use for? He may have provided the hidey-hole.

Speculation: Q: "Where'd you get the money for that new car, Travis?" A: "Arizona. Yeah, Arizona - it's a secret".

Only thing wrong with this speculation is…………it never happened.

Real Fact: Travis Tumlinson and Clyde Barrow did serve time simultaneously in Texas’ infamous Eastham Prison Farm. They were both 19 -20 years old at the time. Oddly both had a history of poultry thief. Travis for chickens, Clyde for turkeys. Travis served 20 months of a 2 year sentence for his poultry heist. Clyde served 22 months of a 14 year term for an assortment of petty thief offenses.

Let’s examine the possible dates of interaction between Travis and Clyde Barrow.

Travis was convicted and entered Huntsville Prison on May 19, 1929, transferred to Eastham on June 3, 1929.

Clyde entered Huntsville on April 21, 1930 and was transferred to Eastham May 1, 1930. Clyde was released to sheriff’s custody to answer a bench warrant in a different county from Sept. 15, 1930 and returned to Huntsville Sept. 24, 1930. Again, transferred to Eastham, October 3, 1930.

Travis was discharged January 20, 1931.

Clyde was paroled and discharged February 2, 1932.

Travis was convicted on his second offense (auto thief) on February 1, 1932, this time served in Huntsville and released October 1, 1935.

Clyde Barrow, along with Bonnie Parker, had their reign of terror from Clyde’s release date of Feb. 2, 1932 to their death in Louisiana on May 23, 1934.

The ONLY time for interaction between Travis Tumlinson and Clyde Barrow would have been either:
1. between May 1, 1930 and Sept 15, 1930;
2. between Oct. 3, 1930 and Jan 20, 1931.

Fact: There was opportunity for Travis to have known and spent time with Clyde Barrow.

Fact: Clyde Barrow was a 2 bit, low level criminal during the time period Travis could have interacted with him. No bank robberies, no (known) murders, no opportunity for a vast stashed loot. A young hoodlum burglarizing roadside stores and gas stations for chump change which he gambled away.

Fact: Travis was incarcerated during the entire time of Bonnie & Clyde’s reign of terror from Feb 2, 1932 until their death in May, 1934. No opportunity to collaborate, assist or advise as to possible stash locations.

Be careful of the tales you spin. In the wrong hands, they become false legends.

 

[markmar]

A different look of the heart .



A short time ago , Wayne ( Somehiker ) was wondered how would looks like the " FAUCES " from the Latin heart . The time came to see it .

 

[somehiker]

True words, markmar, I've gotten myself in trouble more than once because of that fact.
If you have to climb down the same pathway, it's harder to find footholds because your toes don't have eyes.

Not that difficult if you have steps and use a flashlight.
Problem is, knowing which steps NOT to put your full weight on.

 

[somehiker]

A different look of the heart .

View attachment 1281711 View attachment 1281712

A short time ago , Wayne ( Somehiker ) was wondered how would looks like the " FAUCES " from the Latin heart . The time came to see it .

Being a big fan of sat photos, you should like this ....

View attachment heart with cross FAUCES.bmp

This heart is about 70' x 50' and about 10' high.
The "FAUCES" is about 5' wide.....so indeed " a narrow chasm or passage ".
And that's a well worn and narrow trail that goes right to left across the heart and through the passage.

 

[sdcfia]

Fact: Travis was incarcerated during the entire time of Bonnie & Clyde’s reign of terror from Feb 2, 1932 until their death in May, 1934. No opportunity to collaborate, assist or advise as to possible stash locations.

Except by mail, or some third party contact. Depends upon the strength of their friendship, and any past agreements they may have had. Hell, entire crime rings are operated from behind bars. This isn't a crime ring of course - Travis is just a street-level con - but what would prevent Clyde from contacting Travis and letting him know there was a bag of coins in the old barn? Better check all of Travis's mail and visitor logs to get closer to 100% certain. Until then, you're at about 90%. Speaking of false legends - have you heard the doozies surrounding the Peralta Stones?

 

[markmar]

Being a big fan of sat photos, you should like this ....

View attachment 1281756

This heart is about 70' x 50' and about 10' high.
The "FAUCES" is about 5' wide.....so indeed " a narrow chasm or passage ".
And that's a well worn and narrow trail that goes right to left across the heart and through the passage.

Are you talking about a Luna Park " stone trail " model ? Looks very dangerous for kids .
The most words on the Latin heart follow the direction of their meanings on the ground . Look at the rocks clues from the map ( in red ) which are almost accurate .
Also , the " NOTO TRIANGULUM " must to be read together with " INTER SEPTENTRIONES ET OCCASUM SOLIS " , which means " Observe the triangle at NW " . The triangle is a ground shape beside the hill and is an important clue to recognize the region . The triangle is most visible in the # 512 post .

 

[Old]

[QUOTE=sdcfia;......... Better check all of Travis's mail and visitor logs to get closer to 100% certain. Until then, you're at about 90%.

If you can say that with a straight face I'm afraid I can't be of any help to you.

Clyde lost little time getting back into robbing rural stores. Bonnie was picked up by police from a hardware store robbery in Kaufman, TX on April 19, 1932 and later freed for lack of evidence. From that point forward the chase was on for Clyde. When exactly is the TX State police, and later the FBI, going to let Clyde visit, call, write to Travis unmonitored

There is some talk of Travis having escaped during one of his bouts with the CJS. Don't know which time, and haven't seen any notations of "escape" on the prison records. Could have been a local jail issue rather than a felony prison issue prompting those memories. The prison noted all transfers or "sign outs". If it happened, it would be noted. Don't see it.

Leaving aside there being NO viable reason to want to give Travis the keys to the stash, there was no time and no opportunity. But; if you want to believe there was, I'll just set here and watch you work that out. Carry on.

 

[sdcfia]

If you can say that with a straight face I'm afraid I can't be of any help to you.

Clyde lost little time getting back into robbing rural stores. Bonnie was picked up by police from a hardware store robbery in Kaufman, TX on April 19, 1932 and later freed for lack of evidence. From that point forward the chase was on for Clyde. When exactly is the TX State police, and later the FBI, going to let Clyde visit, call, write to Travis unmonitored

There is some talk of Travis having escaped during one of his bouts with the CJS. Don't know which time, and haven't seen any notations of "escape" on the prison records. Could have been a local jail issue rather than a felony prison issue prompting those memories. The prison noted all transfers or "sign outs". If it happened, it would be noted. Don't see it.

Leaving aside there being NO viable reason to want to give Travis the keys to the stash, there was no time and no opportunity. But; if you want to believe there was, I'll just set here and watch you work that out. Carry on.

I have no idea what all the myriad events were that occurred in Clyde and Travis's lives during the '32-'34 time span. Neither do you nor anyone else. When Clyde was on the run, what would have prevented him from dropping a letter in the mail with a phony return name? All he needed was a stamp.

You're doing a nice job as Public Information Officer for the Ryan Project, but, really, with all the hints and promises meted out during the past several months, the peanut gallery is bound to chatter. You would have been better served to keep completely silent until the big unveiling, but the genie's out of the bottle. When you first mentioned that Travis and Clyde were buddies, didn't you think folks would wonder about it? Carry on? With what - your damage control?

 

[somehiker]

Are you talking about a Luna Park " stone trail " model ? Looks very dangerous for kids .
The most words on the Latin heart follow the direction of their meanings on the ground . Look at the rocks clues from the map ( in red ) which are almost accurate .
Also , the " NOTO TRIANGULUM " must to be read together with " INTER SEPTENTRIONES ET OCCASUM SOLIS " , which means " Observe the triangle at NW " . The triangle is a ground shape beside the hill and is an important clue to recognize the region . The triangle is most visible in the # 512 post .

View attachment 1281861 View attachment 1281862

Looks like a fun place Marius.....with plenty of attractive distractions
But if you ever make the effort to see it all firsthand, rather than asking others to go look for you, you will find these mountains are no Luna Park playground for kids.
While that heart can easily be accessed by four legged transport, fully loaded, or just as easily on foot, it still remains hidden from direct view by surrounding terrain.....mostly.....it's what lies in storage beneath it which remains within my area of interest. It also answered my questions pertaining to the Latin Heart, as in "what do the names and corresponding numbers represent ? ".... namely a "ledger" like that which the King's soldiers found indecipherable when they raided the Jesuit Colllegio in Mexico City during the expulsion.

Triangulums are out there for sure, and you might be surprised by what a few of them are.
And this just happens to be a NW view of a couple of them.

View attachment 100_0487 black triangles.bmp

Doubt you will realize their significance .

Maybe you will with this though, since it's another GE view of something interesting on a large flat area overlooking the junction of two deep canyons.

View attachment adobe walls.bmp

There's some fascinating places out there in the Sups, and I didn't find them or "explore" them by "hiking" Google Earth.
But this one does show up on the sat views, unlike many other important clues to what went on in the past.
And it's also on the Fish Map.