Why Some People Find Few Old DEEP Coins

[Michigan Badger]

Here's something I just posted at another site in answer to a Tesoro Cortes owners problem with so many pops and crackles while hunting in discrimination. Maybe this will help somebody here because the basic principle holds true with all brands (Fisher, Whites, Minelab, Nautilus, Garrett, etc.).

Please add your suggestions also 8)

Here's my post:

Nearly all metal detectors crackle and pop while hunting in discrimination mode (some more than others). The discrimination doesn't always eliminate all signals; it will sometimes just deteriorate the unwanted signals more so they're easier to identify as unwanted targets.

Discrimination can be good or bad. It can be great for shallower targets (down to about 4 or 5 inches) but bad for the really deep stuff.

The deeper the target gets, the more its signal deteriorates simply because of ground mineralization. Therefore one could think a deep corroded Indian cent is really a discriminated item (follow me?).

This is one reason why some people find very few old coins and relics.

The answer is to use the machine a lot and study it. It's best to start with low discrimination and dig almost all targets at first. Then as you learn the TID readings (patterns) and sounds you can turn the discrimination up.

Hope this helps.

 

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[stoney56]

my fisher has a silent mode its a 1236x2 takes out the pops and clicks also has a frequency switch
that can zone out about 60% of interferance from powerlines also other detectors close by.


its been invaluable in trashy areas.

The 1236X2 does have the silencer switch, which is great for comp. hunts as well to keep down the crosstalk along with the freq. shift knob.
However, I think you'll get a bit more depth if you turn off the silencer and run the sens. down just a bit to take out some of the pops and clicks. If you want to try an experiment, run your normal settings, then run the area again with the silencer off, sens. at 8-9, and switch to null-iron mode. See if that makes any difference.

Sorry MB, didn't mean to get off track.

 

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[Michigan Badger]

No problem stoney. Great posts everyone!

Thanks,

Badger

 

[makahaman]

Hi guys I just read some of your post and really enjoyed them!! I live in Hawaii and have found some old house sites most of them were built in the 1800's to early 1900's. I have hunted them in a low discrimination mode digging nails once in a while but mostly going over looking for the good stuff. I have found some good coins on the surface but nothing deep, is it because I have been using too much discrimination? I found a site that was once an old cowboy ranch and found some cool buckles and stuff but no coins!! I found where the house once stood and found some cool pipes but no coins, lots and lots of nails. I hear alot of chatter from the discrimination mode when my coil goes over the iron, should I use my whites classic id in all metal mode? This old cowboy ranch was from 1919 and since I haven't found any coins there yet do you guys think they might have lost some or is it a waste of my time looking there? I think these guys might be kind of poor and spent most of their money on liquor!! I found alot of nails and haven't been digging all of them up because I use discrimination when searching these places. Should I dig up everything because the nails may be masking out the coins? Any suggestions would help me out alot!! Don't your knees and lower back take a beating from digging all those nails out of the ground at every beep?? Well, I would like to hear your replies!!!! Aloha!!

 

[Postalrevnant]

Makahaman,

I don't have a particular answer to your question. I will leave that to the more experienced detectors.

But I would like to say that the 3 years I lived in Hawaii were perhaps the best years of my life. I did not Metal Detect back then. Too bad. But I did go diving all the time. I collected alot of shells. Mostly night dives.

Do you Scuba any? If so do you know of the "Checkered Cowry Shell"?

Anyways good luck from a howlie ,

Postalrevnant

 

[makahaman]

Hi Postalrevnant yep, I have found the checkered cowrie shell! I found a few rare shells in Hawaii! I do alot of diving for gold rings and jewelry because there is alot that is lost in the waters over here from swimmers. I also love looking for the old stuff but it is very hard to find takes alot of patience and hard work but it is worth it when you find some really old coins. I hope to find a gold coin one day but I have only found silver coins over here like a seated half dime, v nickels, mercury dimes and a few others. I hope some here can steer me in the right direction because I know there are alot of old coins to be found over here in Hawaii! Hope to hear from all of you! Aloha!!!

 

[randall61]

i have a fisher 1236x2 it has a silent switch....no poping or clicking..joy to the ears

 

[Iskuli]

Great post! I have a white's classic id. It works great for what I like to hunt, jewlry....I like to hunt my local lake parks. I especially like to hunt older parks because the older jewlry is so beautiful. The method that seems to work for me is: I research the age of the area. I verify the age of the site through using my detecotor in the "all metal" mode and by looking at what trash I am pulling. For example: I don't mind pulling pop tops if they are the old type. It verifies how old the area is. Then, I grid the area. I have found that no matter how many times I go over an area, if I free form (did not grid the area) my hunt, I miss stuff. This has checked out several times lately. Just yesterday, I went back to an area I first started hunting when I was a newbie and free form hunted. Yesterday, I grid the area and I found a silver ring I had missed in the same beach area. I agree with the rest of the posts when it comes to discrimination. How I choose to use it is based on how much time I have to hunt. If I have a few hours, I will dig just about everything out of the grid. I have missed many coins and jewlry because trash has masked the good sound. If I don't have a lot of time, I use discrimination to get the easy stuff. I also have found slowing down to be the best way to find the good stuff. My "white whale" is gold! I have over 36 silver rings and one gold ring. It just doesn't make sense to me. In this one area of the lake I have found over 10 of the 36 rings and not ONE gold ring. Any thoughts on why that may be? Common sense says there has to be gold, right?

 

[Michigan Badger]

Hi guys I just read some of your post and really enjoyed them!! I live in Hawaii and have found some old house sites most of them were built in the 1800's to early 1900's. I have hunted them in a low discrimination mode digging nails once in a while but mostly going over looking for the good stuff. I have found some good coins on the surface but nothing deep, is it because I have been using too much discrimination? I found a site that was once an old cowboy ranch and found some cool buckles and stuff but no coins!! I found where the house once stood and found some cool pipes but no coins, lots and lots of nails. I hear alot of chatter from the discrimination mode when my coil goes over the iron, should I use my whites classic id in all metal mode? This old cowboy ranch was from 1919 and since I haven't found any coins there yet do you guys think they might have lost some or is it a waste of my time looking there? I think these guys might be kind of poor and spent most of their money on liquor!! I found alot of nails and haven't been digging all of them up because I use discrimination when searching these places. Should I dig up everything because the nails may be masking out the coins? Any suggestions would help me out alot!! Don't your knees and lower back take a beating from digging all those nails out of the ground at every beep?? Well, I would like to hear your replies!!!! Aloha!!

Thanks for your posting makahaman. I'm sorry I just noticed it today.

You bring up some very good thoughts and comments.

You're probably correct in thinking the cowboy site will have few coins due to poverty. I've hunted ghost towns, 18th and 19th century home sites, etc., and in 40 years of experience in this hobby I've rarely found coins at these sites. That's why I'm always shocked at these reports on TreasureNet of finding dozens of large denomination coins (even gold) at some of these sites. Now, I don't deny the reports--I just say they're very surprising to me in light of my own experience.

I've found sites with lots of 19th century coinage but there were strong reasons for the finds being at these sites. Most of these were old parks and carnival type grounds. Some were coummuting paths through towns (alleys, etc.) Never have I dug lots of old coins at any mere house/ranch/farm or stagecoach type of sites. The big finds at these are harness buckles, horseshoes, and a few odds and ends like pocket knives and tools.

So, I'm saying what you're saying about your finds is consistent with most real life hunting.

I've often wished I were a cartoonist. I'd draw pictures of early settlers scampering about the wagon train seeding the ground with coins for future detectorists to find. In the real world the early settlers guarded their money like they guarded their lives.

Probably most of our very old coins (1700's to late 1800's) were lost via accidents, tragedies (war, fires, etc.) , or children playing with them in the backyard. The year 1900 was a very prosperous year for most (not all) Americans and coinage was plentiful in the lower denonmimations. My guess is, most of the pre-1909 coins we're digging today dating back to the founding years of America were lost in the early to mid 20th century. In those days everybody and his brother did the parks and house yards were heavily used as recreational areas. Nearly every small town had numerious store token slot machines and travel by foot was the most common transpertation mode. Not so anymore. Since the invention of the automobile, tevevision, computers, the backyard and park thing is pretty much a thing of the past.

The 21st century hot spots for newer lost items are beaches, kiddy playground wood chips, and the various sports parks. Today most people drive home from the office to sit on their butts all night watching TV and/or surfing the net. Lots of folks buy detectors (and tons of other toys) that never get more than 10 hours usage. Right in my small neighborhood I'd say there are at least 100 metal detectors. These owners stop when they see me working the area and they say "I'll have to get mine out again some day" (most never will).

For you, you must do your research and ask lots of questions. Find out were the more affluent people lived and played during those early 20th century years and you'll find the goodies. I suspect your biggest obstacle will be getting permission to hunt.

Badger

 

[Blackjack77]

Hi all- this is just an interesting tidbit.
My wifes mother said because of Superstition,
People use to bury a silver coin in the yard.
This might be a tradition only in certain
areas or backgounds.Maybe even for good
luck?
Anyone ever heard of this

 

[bakergeol]

Hi guys I just read some of your post and really enjoyed them!! I live in Hawaii and have found some old house sites most of them were built in the 1800's to early 1900's. I have hunted them in a low discrimination mode digging nails once in a while but mostly going over looking for the good stuff. I have found some good coins on the surface but nothing deep, is it because I have been using too much discrimination? I found a site that was once an old cowboy ranch and found some cool buckles and stuff but no coins!! I found where the house once stood and found some cool pipes but no coins, lots and lots of nails. I hear alot of chatter from the discrimination mode when my coil goes over the iron, should I use my whites classic id in all metal mode? This old cowboy ranch was from 1919 and since I haven't found any coins there yet do you guys think they might have lost some or is it a waste of my time looking there? I think these guys might be kind of poor and spent most of their money on liquor!! I found alot of nails and haven't been digging all of them up because I use discrimination when searching these places. Should I dig up everything because the nails may be masking out the coins? Any suggestions would help me out alot!! Don't your knees and lower back take a beating from digging all those nails out of the ground at every beep?? Well, I would like to hear your replies!!!! Aloha!!

Thanks for your posting makahaman. I'm sorry I just noticed it today.

You bring up some very good thoughts and comments.

You're probably correct in thinking the cowboy site will have few coins due to poverty. I've hunted ghost towns, 18th and 19th century home sites, etc., and in 40 years of experience in this hobby I've rarely found coins at these sites. That's why I'm always shocked at these reports on TreasureNet of finding dozens of large denomination coins (even gold) at some of these sites. Now, I don't deny the reports--I just say they're very surprising to me in light of my own experience.

I've found sites with lots of 19th century coinage but there were strong reasons for the finds being at these sites. Most of these were old parks and carnival type grounds. Some were coummuting paths through towns (alleys, etc.) Never have I dug lots of old coins at any mere house/ranch/farm or stagecoach type of sites. The big finds at these are harness buckles, horseshoes, and a few odds and ends like pocket knives and tools.

So, I'm saying what you're saying about your finds is consistent with most real life hunting.

I've often wished I were a cartoonist. I'd draw pictures of early settlers scampering about the wagon train seeding the ground with coins for future detectorists to find. In the real world the early settlers guarded their money like they guarded their lives.

Probably most of our very old coins (1700's to late 1800's) were lost via accidents, tragedies (war, fires, etc.) , or children playing with them in the backyard. The year 1900 was a very prosperous year for most (not all) Americans and coinage was plentiful in the lower denonmimations. My guess is, most of the pre-1909 coins we're digging today dating back to the founding years of America were lost in the early to mid 20th century. In those days everybody and his brother did the parks and house yards were heavily used as recreational areas. Nearly every small town had numerous store token slot machines and travel by foot was the most common transpertation mode. Not so anymore. Since the invention of the automobile, tevevision, computers, the backyard and park thing is pretty much a thing of the past.

The 21st century hot spots for newer lost items are beaches, kiddy playground wood chips, and the various sports parks. Today most people drive home from the office to sit on their butts all night watching TV and/or surfing the net. Lots of folks buy detectors (and tons of other toys) that never get more than 10 hours usage. Right in my small neighborhood I'd say there are at least 100 metal detectors. These owners stop when they see me working the area and they say "I'll have to get mine out again some day" (most never will).

For you, you must do your research and ask lots of questions. Find out were the more affluent people lived and played during those early 20th century years and you'll find the goodies. I suspect your biggest obstacle will be getting permission to hunt.

Badger

I remember almost 40 years ago I had gotten permission to hunt an old tavern site. It was in an old area dotted with old foundation stones that dated back to the early 1800's. Well I worked my buns off and got some coins (mainly LCs). Well I took these to show the old landowner who I guess was in his late 70's. I was going to give him one of my coins in appreciation for his permission to hunt these sites. Well the old man refused the coin and said that any coins I found on his property were all mine. Besides he said "Let me show you what I have found around here" He went back to his bedroom and returned with a small box. It was full of hundreds of old coins that he had found by eyeballing as a kid around the area. All were dated prior to 1900. Large cents, 1/2 cents, bust, seated silver etc- It was a HELL of a collection. He as a kid around the turn of the century would see an old coin among the foundation stones and take it home to put in his shoe box. So in this case a lot of old coins were indeed lost around these old sites. However earlier treasure hunters using the best detector ever made(the human eyeball) were there a long time ago.

He started finding these coins starting around 1900? He found a coin collection any detectorist would envy and could only dream about. They were lost in abundance at least in that area of old home sites. Why didn't I do as well as he did with the lastest electronic wizbang? I have to admit it was his lifetime collection. But still after that experience I kind of wonder "Why aren't MORE old coins found"? - What is the answer? Found by earlier eyeballers? too deep?

George

 

[bk]

George, I think you got it!
When I started detecting in the early 70's, you would find wheat cents all over the place. Most were only 3 to 4" deep. Now I go to these same sites and find post 1970's coins at 3 inches or more. Does this mean that those wheat cents that were 3" deep are now 7" deep?

 

[stoney56]

I hazard a guess that it depends on how much traffic a piece of property has. The more traffic, the better the chance someone will see and pick it up. I've found an early SLQ and Walker just laying on the surface that had been there for over 70-80 years and other areas where 1940's merc. dimes & 50's Rosies were 3-4" or better.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I've found that the depth of the finds can be explained (in most cases).

High traffic sites that tend to get very muddy with frequent rians tend toward very deep finds. Sites that were once plowed or had livestock tend to have deep finds.

One 120 year old lumber camp I hunt has axe heads, horseshoes, buckles, etc., still cought in the sod less than 3 inches deep (in some cases). Another lumber camp has these relics at 8 to 15 inches deep.

Depth mostly depends on what happens to the surface once the item is placed in that spot. Blowing dust, run-off from rains, thick field grass, etc., many factors come into play.

This last summer I found a 200+ year old iron knife blade laying on the surface. No animal happened to step on it during the rainy season. It was on high ground and therefore free of rain run-off. My dad found a V nickle laying on the surface.

Badger

 

[bill dilly]

I really appreciate reading posts like these. I started metal detecting last January. I received a White's Prizm IV as a gift. After reading many posts of great coins and other items being found, I'm convinced that the Prizm IV is an ok entry level machine but it doesn't seem to find any coins below about 4". My point is that I think you can use the techniques that are posted here, but unless you have a machine that can get to the deeper targets, techniques don't matter. Any suggestions for a relatively new person on which units are the deepest seeking machines? I have found lots of clad and now I need to get a DEEP seeking machine.

 

[Michigan Badger]

My point is that I think you can use the techniques that are posted here, but unless you have a machine that can get to the deeper targets, techniques don't matter.

Your 100% correct. We say "depth isn't the only thing" so much its like depth is nothing.

Without a reasonable amount of depth one might as well use a broomstick.

Depth is actually far more important than most think. With in-ground depth comes area coverage and a bunch of other very important things.

I think when we write that "depth isn't everything" we really mean poor quality depth, or in other words, air test only.

Great in-ground depth is only possible if a machine is able to cope with ground and trash conditions well enough to report back on good targets.

Many cheap detectors get awesome air tests. But one that air tests at 14 inches on a quarter may only get 6 inches in the ground (I've see this myself). Another that air tests 14 inches may get 12 inches in depth in the same soil. This is where quality stands out bold and strong.

Badger

 

[MEinWV]

Great post here! this is a classroom course, and all of us are learning new and different things and picking up good ideas that will make us all better. My old metal/mineral machine wouldn't pick up a nail to save its soul on zero discrimination, even though it could read coins directly under the nails. That machine was truly a one of a kind! We even tested it against other identical units, as well as more expensive models. But, that was in '76! Much has changed, and some things haven't, really. My 5000D was good on silver. It just had a very sweet, pure tone on silver.

As for finding older coins close to the surface at newer homes and schools, some of this may be due to the fact that topsoil is brought in from other locations. As older places are demolished, the topsoil is often removed and stockpiled. It is then used later on many new places. A guy I used to work with moved into a new apartment complex that was still under developement. He decided to dig worms out of a loam pile nearby. He found several older coins in the dirt, as well as 2 Walkers. He then found out that the complex had been built over an old ballfield. Food for thought!!

Thanks for a fantastic post!..........HH to All!!

 

[U.K. Brian]

What has been ignored so far is the detector designers brief.
At the maximum detection depth of any machine you have a very iffy signal. Use a machine like a Fisher CZ, which many refer to as a nail magnet, and you will have many good sounding signals at depth that turn out to be iron when recovered.
Try a Whites XLT and you would detect the same site and dig hardly any rubbish.
Which is the better machine ?
In fact the Fisher though it might drive you mad is the better machine for deep hunting. It finds an iffy edge of maximum detection signal and can't really tell what it is. So the designer says we will give a good I.D. on these deep targets and then it can be investigated further because it might be good.
The Whites design however will either display a minus figure or bar or smear on the display and you are almost guaranteed to accept whats its telling you and not bother to dig though taking off a few inches of soil and re sweeping would prove it to be a worthwhile target.

So the Whites provides an easy life and as you don't know what your missing you go home happy and the Fisher can be hard work

Re a couple of previous posts as with everything in metal detecting nothing is set in stone. A machine might give is best response on a small deep signal if the coil is as near a possible to the ground....or the ground effect might mean raising the coil would in fact give more in ground depth at that spot.
Sweep speed. The usual suggestion is slow is best, which it is with the majority of machines. Go to a four (or more) filter design and an increase in speed will improve depth and discrimination reliability.
One other thing. How many have studied the target response as the coil passes over the target in both directions. Many machines, especially if they tend to bounce between target I.D.'s, have a direction of travel over the target that gives a more accurate idea of what is down there. You could find that left to right is more accurate than right to left. Or vise versa. All depends on the machine and the way the coil is wound.