🥇 BANNER 1600s Narragansett Indian brass kettle indian point*coppers*reale*eagle buttons

[HEAVYMETALNUT]

1600's Narragansett Indian brass kettle indian point*coppers*reale*eagle buttons

Issac was up from Va and we decided to take him to a couple sites we did well at last visit there.
we found a new site and started there.was hit pretty good by someone before us but I was really stoked when this 1600's Narragansett Indian tribe brass kettle arrow point popped out.i got a large colonial coat button from this site as well.
off to the button site next.this site gave up nice early artillery buttons last visit and today was no exception.Dan got a nice copper signal and i walked over to check with my XLT.nothing! couldn't hear it at 5 inches which is crazy.something wrong with my machine.Issac checked it with his AT PRO bam nice n clear.i quickly broke down the XLT and assembled the MXT ALL-PRO I carried in my back pack.
Now I started finding stuff.a few one piece convex eagle artillery buttons which are toasted,next i got a nice coin spill in the road.2 matron head LC's and a 178? spanish 1 reale.a few more buttons.we worked this site for awhile then headed to one last site to end the day.there I got a rare Machins Mills 1772 KGIII. a great day was had by all.everyone came out with nice keepers.Issac teared it up.killer buttons and a complete shoe buckle.16 years old and he looked like a veteran cellar hole hunter out there.

I didn't post last saturdays finds but got a beautiful 1805 draped bust half cent and a 1776 1/2 reale. I was told this may be a Rev War shoulder strap sling buckle? any feed back would be appreciated and a broken eagle wing from a shako hat plate.bummer

 

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[jewelerguy]

super cool digs!

 

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[parsonwalker]

here's the pics cleaned up.obverse is not in that great of shape.details there but pitted up

Wow. But I'm a button guy, and those three are SWEET!

 

[Charl]

My research is telling me they made them right up to The French and Indian War..Why would they just stop after the King Phillip war??

Sure they started using guns but most preferred to shoot a bow and arrow from horseback..
It could have been a bounty that a Colonial kept from The French and Indian war??

But to say it IS from the 1600's is speculation.....
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/north-american-indian-artifacts/407867-metal-arrowhead.html
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/my-best-finds/323304-1700-s-metallic-arrowheads.html


~Blaze

Yes, copper and brass points were native manufactured from kettles, etc. right through the French and Indian war. I am not at all familiar with the site where this point was found. If found in RI or adjacent far eastern Ct., then yes, it's from the 1600's. No free roaming natives here after King Philip's War. If found closer to the central area of southern New England it could be later if lost by native raids during the French and Indian Wars. So, may depend on where found. The Narragansett lived in RI. If found there, it's 1600's. You mentioned it could have been made by settlers or colonists even into the 1800's. No, that was not the case at all. These were native made projectile points. Settlers wern't cutting up their brass utensils to make arrowheads. Their wives would not appreciate it at all actually, I've sometimes wondered if native women complained( "you know, that's a great kettle. You ain't got enough arrowheads already?) If I found this on the Mohawk Trail in Ma., I would not know if 17th or 18th century made. But, if found in Narragansett Country, it is 1600's, not 1700's, and not made by a colonist.

Here are 17th century trade points from the Burrell Creek site in upstate NY. In that region, Iroquois villages existed well into the 18th century, and those 18th century sites will yield the same style triangular brass/copper points. But that will not be the case in far eastern Ct. or anywhere in RI. In that region, these brass triangles DO date to the 1600's, not the 1700's. Also, an illustration of 17th century trade points from southern New England.

 

[Charl]

It would help at this point if I knew where it was found, but it sounds like it has to be either RI itself, where the Narragansett lived, or far eastern Ct., which, in the 17th century, included Pequot, Mohegan, and Western Niantic in the New London-Groton area. None of those tribal bands were free roaming after King Philip's War(1675-76, continued till 1678 in Maine). So, if found in southeastern New England, including southeast Ma., it's most certainly from the 1600's.
Wampanoag were an eastern RI, southeastern Ma. Band. Nipmucks ranged into NW RI and NE Ct. But the French and Indians were not raiding this area during those wars, so little likelihood it would be 18th century Iroquois. Unless you tell me it was found in NW Ct, if found in Narragansett or Pequot or Mohegan territory, most likely 1600's. Now, the Mohegans did side with the English in King Philip's War, maybe they were free to roam and hunt after 1676 and into the 1700's. I'm not certain on that score.

 

[HEAVYMETALNUT]

It would help at this point if I knew where it was found, but it sounds like it has to be either RI itself, where the Narragansett lived, or far eastern Ct., which, in the 17th century, included Pequot, Mohegan, and Western Niantic in the New London-Groton area. None of those tribal bands were free roaming after King Philip's War(1675-76, continued till 1678 in Maine). So, if found in southeastern New England, including southeast Ma., it's most certainly from the 1600's.
Wampanoag were an eastern RI, southeastern Ma. Band. Nipmucks ranged into NW RI and NE Ct. But the French and Indians were not raiding this area during those wars, so little likelihood it would be 18th century Iroquois. Unless you tell me it was found in NW Ct, if found in Narragansett or Pequot or Mohegan territory, most likely 1600's. Now, the Mohegans did side with the English in King Philip's War, maybe they were free to roam and hunt after 1676 and into the 1700's. I'm not certain on that score.

Charl,Thanks so much for your imput.it was found in south east Ct near the RI border

 

[Charl]

BTW, this is an absolutely SUPERB example of a 17th century native made trade point. I'd be walking on air if I found such a super example. Look at the illustration I left for the common styles. The one you found is in great shape and has great character, IMHO. I've been collecting/hunting Native American artifacts in RI since the 50's. If I found that, it would be one of my best finds, for sure it would be a favorite. I've never metal detected, but if you ever need help hunting the site that gave you that killer point, let me know I'd join you in a heartbeat if I could see stuff like that popping out of the ground!

 

[Charl]

Charl,Thanks so much for your imput.it was found in south east Ct near the RI border

Tribal border lands. Cool. Could be Pequot or Narragansett. The two tribes fought over "boundaries" and fishing rights on the Pawcatuck River. But, for certain there were no French and Indian raids that far from the frontier. So you can be certain your point dates 17th century. I've only found two metal points in decades of just surface hunting for native artifacts in RI, and one has a broken tip. I envy you, man. I really cannot expect to find such things surface hunting to begin with; you are lucky to have dug such a killer example. That's a banner find in my book every day of the week!

I nominated for the banner. Exceptional style and exceptional condition. It deserves banner designation, IMHO....

 

[HEAVYMETALNUT]

Tribal border lands. Cool. Could be Pequot or Narragansett. The two tribes fought over "boundaries" and fishing rights on the Pawcatuck River. But, for certain there were no French and Indian raids that far from the frontier. So you can be certain your point dates 17th century. I've only found two metal points in decades of just surface hunting for native artifacts in RI, and one has a broken tip. I envy you, man. I really cannot expect to find such things surface hunting to begin with; you are lucky to have dug such a killer example. That's a banner find in my book every day of the week!

wow thanks so much! really appreciate you taking the time to confirm Dan's ID which I believed from the beginning.and there ya have it Johnny Blaze.We all learn something everyday.that's what is so great about this hobby and these forums.would love to see this up on the banner as it is a piece of history from the birth of the USA.

 

[Charl]

Very happy to help, HEAVYMETALNUT. Here's a map showing tribal territories in the 17th century. The Pequots moved into the area in late prehistoric times, and split the Niantic between an Eastern and a Western tribe. The Mohegans were formed as a breakaway band in the 1600's. It was not unknown for bands to separate in such fashion. Sachems did not have absolute power, and if disputes were rancorous enough, the break could result in a new band altogether. The Eastern Niantic lived in what is now Westerly and Charlestown, RI. Since your point was found in far SE Ct., could be any of those bands, really. Sometime in the late 1500's-early 1600's, the Narragansett and Pequot fought a big battle in Hopkington, RI, at the falls of the Pawcatuck River, for control of the salmon run. The Narragansett prevailed. in 1642, the Narragansett invaded Mohegan lands, and in the ensuing battle the Mohegans captured Miantonomi, Narragansett sachem, and beheaded him. Once their leader was captured, the Narragansett fled the scene. As you know, the Pawcatuck forms part of the boundary between RI and Ct. The two colonies disputed their borders, and the natives fought for similar reasons in our border regions.

Mystic denotes the massacre at the Pequot Fort of hundreds of Pequot women and children burned alive by colonial forces in 1637 during the Pequot War. The Great Swamp Fight denotes the massacre of the Narragansett women and children in Dec., 1675. Bloody Brook was a major engagement in King Philip's War as well. Mt. Hope, RI, part of Plymouth Colony, was the home of King Philip and where he was killed by a native traitor in 1676.

 

[Davers]

Awesome find's , any of witch would have made my Year.

Great Thread / History Lesson
Many things I never knew of ( more than hearing the Names).
Very Educational Thanks Guy's.

Davers

 

[Steve in PA]

Wow Dave, you had a killer hunt at those sites!! Great coins and relics! The copper kettle point is awesome. By the way, I dug one of those Machin's Mills halfpennies - ID by Don in SJ as a 5-72A.

 

[HEAVYMETALNUT]

Very happy to help, HEAVYMETALNUT. Here's a map showing tribal territories in the 17th century. The Pequots moved into the area in late prehistoric times, and split the Niantic between an Eastern and a Western tribe. The Mohegans were formed as a breakaway band in the 1600's. It was not unknown for bands to separate in such fashion. Sachems did not have absolute power, and if disputes were rancorous enough, the break could result in a new band altogether. The Eastern Niantic lived in what is now Westerly and Charlestown, RI. Since your point was found in far SE Ct., could be any of those bands, really. Sometime in the late 1500's-early 1600's, the Narragansett and Pequot fought a big battle in Hopkington, RI, at the falls of the Pawcatuck River, for control of the salmon run. The Narragansett prevailed. in 1642, the Narragansett invaded Mohegan lands, and in the ensuing battle the Mohegans captured Miantonomi, Narragansett sachem, and beheaded him. Once their leader was captured, the Narragansett fled the scene. As you know, the Pawcatuck forms part of the boundary between RI and Ct. The two colonies disputed their borders, and the natives fought for similar reasons in our border regions.

Mystic denotes the massacre at the Pequot Fort of hundreds of Pequot women and children burned alive by colonial forces in 1637 during the Pequot War. The Great Swamp Fight denotes the massacre of the Narragansett women and children in Dec., 1675. Bloody Brook was a major engagement in King Philip's War as well. Mt. Hope, RI, part of Plymouth Colony, was the home of King Philip and where he was killed by a native traitor in 1676.

this is awesome! thanks so much for a very educating history of these tribes! wow i was engrossed in reading this.thanks again!

 

[leddel]

this is awesome! thanks so much for a very educating history of these tribes! wow i was engrossed in reading this.thanks again!

Dave if you thought this was good info you should visit the museum and see the stuff they are working on in the conservator's lab and research offices .

 

[johnnyblaze]

You got me but i love the controversy......

At least we heard it from a REAL expert and not a poseur.....Like the poster above this one..

It gets my banner vote now its confirmed.....Which is what i said i would do...Remember..

~Blaze

 

[HEAVYMETALNUT]

You got me but i love the controversy......

At least we heard it from a REAL expert and not a poseur.....Like the poster above this one..

It gets my banner vote now its confirmed.....Which is what i said i would do...Remember..

~Blaze

Dan is far from a poseur.he's been doing this for years and have learned a ton from him.I knew what it was when I dug it,Dan confirmed it and a 3rd person in Charl confirmed as well. It's an important piece of early New England that I am honored to have had the chance to dig and save from the elements

 

[leddel]

You got me but i love the controversy......

At least we heard it from a REAL expert and not a poseur.....Like the poster above this one..

It gets my banner vote now its confirmed.....Which is what i said i would do...Remember..

~Blaze

dude , don't you have newbies to brow beat or other finds to discredit somewhere , this one proved you wrong .
time to lick your wounds "move along nothing more to see here" . your negativity is required elsewhere thank you . the only posing is in your avatar .

 

[johnnyblaze]

When you dress like this to an Archaeological dig representing the metal detecting community you most certainly are not a professional..

You are a Poseur..

With Dan on the right..

Dont try to use the excuse you were in a pinch..You knew for months you was going to detect "The Great Swamp Fight"..Do i need to say it again..GREAT SWAMP FIGHT!!!You went unprepared and the Archies knew it..Waders are like 20 bucks..Hey detectorists next time the Archies refuse you remember this is why..
Also notice how a real professional had to come on this thread and shed some light..It did not make banner until he revealed all the details..So this proves you really are a poseur..

So next time you guys get together give it other a nice Belly Bop in my favor...Dave you got the wrong brand..This is more like it!!
I guess the only question for Charl is this the image you want people to have in their head of a Native American Archie??

You embarrass the Metal detecting community..

~Blaze

 

[HEAVYMETALNUT]

When you dress like this to an Archaeological dig representing the metal detecting community you most certainly are not a professional..

You are a Poseur..

With Dan on the right..


You embarrass the Metal detecting community..

~Blaze

I find the complete opposite.willing to get wrapped up in garbage bags to go into a knee deep swamp to help locate musketballs.to me that's admiral and represents us very well

 

[Ahab8]

I just voted banner on this and hope it makes it up top where it belongs, but regardless it is an amazing find and a fantastic piece of history. I very much appreciate the people that took the time to explain more about this piece. What I love most about this site is how many people there are that have a vast amount of knowledge in certain areas and share it with those of us that are eager to learn.

 

[leddel]

When you dress like this to an Archaeological dig representing the metal detecting community you most certainly are not a professional..

You are a Poseur..

With Dan on the right..


You embarrass the Metal detecting community..

~Blaze

Yes , i wore taped garbage bags on my legs to climb into a waste high deep swamp of muck
and water . I'm sorry Phil it was short notice and I didn't have my waders . Gee I thought we
already went through this whole story before , whats a matter did you miss your meds today??

As I said before it was to help with archaeologists , something i'm very proud of and the plastic saved my
clothes from getting all nasty .

if helping find and preserve history embarrasses the detecting community then I guess I'm guilty .

on a side note , this is the second time you have used that picture . I'm starting to think you keep it under your pillow at night .