1652 Massachusetts Pine Tree Shilling- Post Grading/ Conservation

[Silvermonkey]

As promised , here is a follow up post regarding the Pine Tree Shilling I found back on 5/5/26. I sent the coin off to NGC back on 5/18 for grading and conservation. I also requested their "Variety-Plus" service in hopes of getting an expert opinion about the specific Noe/ Crosby/Salmon designation. I got the coin back this afternoon, along with the submission form.

This is my first time using any grading service, so I wasn't exactly sure what to expect. I am surprised that the coin did not receive a numeric grade, but rather "V F Details, Cleaned". I'm assuming that the label "cleaned" sharply decreases the coin's value. Is that correct? If so, that's pretty frustrating given that the only cleaning I did was to rinse it off in distilled water. Does "cleaned" refer to the NGC conservation process? Does anyone know what that actually entails? I was also disappointed that they could not offer a more specific variety designation other than "1652 Small Pine Tree 1S Massachusetts". Was I asking too much for more detailed variety information? Please let me know what you think.

I'm very happy to have the coin back in my possession, and I think it looks great. I completely appreciate what a rare and remarkable detecting find this Pine Tree shilling represents. I'm just not sure if I would choose to go through such a grading process again. If you think I was asking too much from NGC, I would love to hear your opinion, and your own past grading experiences. I'll give them a call on Monday to ask them directly for some feedback on the questions I mentioned above. Thanks to everyone for your many positive comments. Cheers!

 

[Silvermonkey]

Wonderful coin!!!

Now, tell me how much it cost you to go thru all that? 😏

It wasn't cheap... I gave the coin a " declared value" of $5,000. Total cost to have it graded and conserved was $330. In all liklihood, this is the one/ only Pine Tree shilling I will ever come across in my lifetime. Given its rarity, I think that's a reasonable price to pay to preserve an outstanding piece of Massachusetts history.

 

[CRUSADER]

Slapping coins in the UK is not typical, personally I would never do it to any of my great coins, even the 1 of 1 known. I have lots that are less than 10 Recorded & don't feel any need to stick them away in a plastic tomb. Just my opinion.

 

[Digger RJ]

As promised , here is a follow up post regarding the Pine Tree Shilling I found back on 5/5/26. I sent the coin off to NGC back on 5/18 for grading and conservation. I also requested their "Variety-Plus" service in hopes of getting an expert opinion about the specific Noe/ Crosby/Salmon designation. I got the coin back this afternoon, along with the submission form.

View attachment 2256056
View attachment 2256057

This is my first time using any grading service, so I wasn't exactly sure what to expect. I am surprised that the coin did not receive a numeric grade, but rather "V F Details, Cleaned". I'm assuming that the label "cleaned" sharply decreases the coin's value. Is that correct? If so, that's pretty frustrating given that the only cleaning I did was to rinse it off in distilled water. Does "cleaned" refer to the NGC conservation process? Does anyone know what that actually entails? I was also disappointed that they could not offer a more specific variety designation other than "1652 Small Pine Tree 1S Massachusetts". Was I asking too much for more detailed variety information? Please let me know what you think.

I'm very happy to have the coin back in my possession, and I think it looks great. I completely appreciate what a rare and remarkable detecting find this Pine Tree shilling represents. I'm just not sure if I would choose to go through such a grading process again. If you think I was asking too much from NGC, I would love to hear your opinion, and your own past grading experiences. I'll give them a call on Monday to ask them directly for some feedback on the questions I mentioned above. Thanks to everyone for your many positive comments. Cheers!

Outstanding!!! Congratulations!!!

 

[ToddsPoint]

Slapping coins in the UK is not typical, personally I would never do it to any of my great coins, even the 1 of 1 known. I have lots that are less than 10 Recorded & don't feel any need to stick them away in a plastic tomb. Just my opinion.

You obviously don’t plan on selling any of your finds. Buying and selling can be dangerous due to all the fakes. Especially with high dollar collector coins. I wouldn’t touch one unless it’s in a slab from PCGS and has a CAC sticker. In the US graded slabbed coins bring the highest prices.

 

[ARC]

Slapping coins in the UK is not typical, personally I would never do it to any of my great coins, even the 1 of 1 known. I have lots that are less than 10 Recorded & don't feel any need to stick them away in a plastic tomb. Just my opinion.

Cruz... it is not done to "tomb" it... It is done to preserve and to authenticate.
IF and when it is to transfer hands... (which one day it will regardless of your thought) ... be it yours or your siblings... to pass it on or to sell... it verifies that is in fact what it is.
This process is not for you... it is for the potential next person who may own it.. heh

 

[Tpmetal]

Slapping coins in the UK is not typical, personally I would never do it to any of my great coins, even the 1 of 1 known. I have lots that are less than 10 Recorded & don't feel any need to stick them away in a plastic tomb. Just my opinion.

Sorry I can't resist.... but I don't slap my coins either, I too frown upon tasteless violence against inanimate objects. I did however have one slabbed that was more valuable than the rest so my daughter knows its value if I suddenly pass.

 

[l.cutler]

I guess it depends on the collector and the area of numismatics. I collect US colonials, and most colonial collectors, myself included seem to prefer raw coins. I've cracked a bunch out but never had one slabbed. Honestly a dedicated collector that really knows his niche area of collecting usually knows the coins better than the third party graders. There are aspects of examining coins that just can't be done through a slab, weighing and inspecting the edge can be important in attributing the coin. With the flood of fakes on the market a slab can certainly be a plus and with key date coins almost mandatory but even then you have to be careful, the Chinese counterfeiters are faking the slabs now!

 

[ARC]

I guess it depends on the collector and the area of numismatics. I collect US colonials, and most colonial collectors, myself included seem to prefer raw coins. I've cracked a bunch out but never had one slabbed. Honestly a dedicated collector that really knows his niche area of collecting usually knows the coins better than the third party graders. There are aspects of examining coins that just can't be done through a slab, weighing and inspecting the edge can be important in attributing the coin. With the flood of fakes on the market a slab can certainly be a plus and with key date coins almost mandatory but even then you have to be careful, the Chinese counterfeiters are faking the slabs now!

JFYI... Attributes and weights can and many times already are added to the coin from the service.
Handmade coins are the largest target by the fakers... this is one major reason why slabbing is / has become paramount.
Coins that have become graded are "logged" in the services databases... so fake graded coins are easily determined.

PS... Graded coins carry a MUCH higher resale value as well... and also MUCH easier to sell.

- * Remember folks... Authentication / documentation is THE KEY to a coin of a handmade OR valuable nature.

 

[ARC]

JFYI... Attributes and weights can and many times already are added to the coin from the service.
Handmade coins are the largest target by the fakers... this is one major reason why slabbing is / has become paramount.
Coins that have become graded are "logged" in the services databases... so fake graded coins are easily determined.

PS... Graded coins carry a MUCH higher resale value as well... and also MUCH easier to sell.

- * Remember folks... Authentication / documentation is THE KEY to a coin of a handmade OR valuable nature.

I must add...
That I too... also like and prefer raw coins.
But when it comes to certain kinds... particularly when scrutiny OR major values are concerned...
it is almost always a must to have them authenticated.

 

[l.cutler]

JFYI... Attributes and weights can and many times already are added to the coin from the service.
Handmade coins are the largest target by the fakers... this is one major reason why slabbing is / has become paramount.
Coins that have become graded are "logged" in the services databases... so fake graded coins are easily determined.

PS... Graded coins carry a MUCH higher resale value as well... and also MUCH easier to sell.

- * Remember folks... Authentication / documentation is THE KEY to a coin of a handmade OR valuable nature.

Oh, no doubt about it, most times for more valuable coins slabbing is the way to go. I am confident enough in my little niche that I feel no need, in fact I'm pretty sure I know more about Connecticut coppers than most if not all of the graders at the slabbing services. If I was to venture outside my comfort zone and purchase more costly coins that I'm not so familiar with then slabbing would most likely be the route I'd take.

 

[Jose The Goon]

I have to chime in here and put in my 2 cents. It's kind of long so bear with me.
Everyone has different reasons as to slab or not slab. I never slabbed anything until a friend of mine, who I got into metal detecting, finally talked me into slabbing a coin. He joined PCGS for I think it was $200, because he started to buy nice gold & silver coins for his children & grand children & he wanted them graded & authenticated. That $200 per year membership gave him 5 free gradings per year. So the coin you see in my avatar was sent in.
I found that coin in 1982 or 1983 at an old park that was being re-sodded near the Charles River & Harvard University. The subsoil was now exposed and the topsoil was scraped up & put in 3 huge piles to be re-spread so the sod could be laid down. I found many Indians, Barbers, & Mercs etc.
I didn't have a pouch, just some good solid pants with deep pockets. One pocket for the coins & one for the junk. When I found this coin & took a quick glance, I thought it might be from the 1930's or 40's because I had already found a few of those & this one looked good, so I just put in in my pocket with the rest of the coins & kept on moving before the Sun went down. When I got home, I put all the coins in a plastic jar with tap water, shook it 2 or 3 times & spread them on a towel to dry. Well, I was surprised to see one dime was a 1916-D that I estimated was in Very Good to Fine condition.
I kept it in my desk draw in one of those small, brown manila envelopes where it sat for many years before my friend sent it out to be graded by PCGS. It came back Genuine VF20, no mention of
cleaning or environmental damage. I was happy that my friend finally talked me into getting it slabbed.
Later in life I bought at a flea market an 1899 Morgan that the guy had in one of those cardboard holders with the cellophane windows so you could see the front & back of the coin. He wrote on the top 1899-330,000 minted BU. I grabbed it for 40 or 50 bucks. That sat in a Manila envelope with the '16-D. It looked great but after 10 or so years, I noticed a tiny blue spot in the upper right corner on the obverse of the coin. My friend sent that out to PCGS & it came back Genuine, cleaning AU. Since it has been slabbed, the tarnish has spread to the edges on both sides of the coin. So maybe it was cleaned by the guy years before or maybe PCGS thought I had cleaned it and missed a spot. I'll never know. Even though it is a low mintage Morgan, it is not worth that much in AU or BU condition anyway.
Now for the final part of this epic saga. This goes back to the 1950s. As a kid people in Boston were talking about the 1955 Lincoln DD. Everybody was checking their pennies. So, when my grandmother took me with her to the bank, I asked her if she would buy me a roll of pennies.
She bought me 3 rolls. I still have them as I type this. All 3 rolls were mint 1956. 150 mint, in the roll 1956s. I opened the rolls to see if there were any 1955s mixed in. No luck, but I re-rolled them and saved them anyway.
So what I have are 150 mint 1956 pennies, and I have a dilemma. I'd like to know what you folks would do. I'm going to bed now. I'll check in later.
This month's Coin World lists the 1956 as follows: MS60B=.25, MS63RB=.50, MS65R=$15,
MS67R=$1,150
If I joined PCGS for $200 skins & had them all slabbed @$20+ a whack, just in hopes that a few would be graded @ MS67R, that's not feasible.
They all could be graded @ MS65R or less & I would still lose money. ( If I could sell them at that price @ all, because it is such a common date).
Any responses will be appreciated.
Thanks for looking and putting up with this long post J.T.G.

 

[Jose The Goon]

I have to chime in here and put in my 2 cents. It's kind of long so bear with me.
Everyone has different reasons as to slab or not slab.

 

[l.cutler]

I have to chime in here and put in my 2 cents. It's kind of long so bear with me.
Everyone has different reasons as to slab or not slab.

1956 is an extremely common date in mint state, of course every coin would have to be carefully examined to be sure, but there is almost no chance of finding one in a roll worth grading. Common coins in those kind of grades are generally going to come from mint sets, not in rolls where the slightest rub from another coin will drop the grade drastically.

 

[Silvermonkey]

I have to chime in here and put in my 2 cents. It's kind of long so bear with me.
Everyone has different reasons as to slab or not slab. I never slabbed anything until a friend of mine, who I got into metal detecting, finally talked me into slabbing a coin. He joined PCGS for I think it was $200, because he started to buy nice gold & silver coins for his children & grand children & he wanted them graded & authenticated. That $200 per year membership gave him 5 free gradings per year. So the coin you see in my avatar was sent in.
I found that coin in 1982 or 1983 at an old park that was being re-sodded near the Charles River & Harvard University. The subsoil was now exposed and the topsoil was scraped up & put in 3 huge piles to be re-spread so the sod could be laid down. I found many Indians, Barbers, & Mercs etc.
I didn't have a pouch, just some good solid pants with deep pockets. One pocket for the coins & one for the junk. When I found this coin & took a quick glance, I thought it might be from the 1930's or 40's because I had already found a few of those & this one looked good, so I just put in in my pocket with the rest of the coins & kept on moving before the Sun went down. When I got home, I put all the coins in a plastic jar with tap water, shook it 2 or 3 times & spread them on a towel to dry. Well, I was surprised to see one dime was a 1916-D that I estimated was in Very Good to Fine condition.
I kept it in my desk draw in one of those small, brown manila envelopes where it sat for many years before my friend sent it out to be graded by PCGS. It came back Genuine VF20, no mention of
cleaning or environmental damage. I was happy that my friend finally talked me into getting it slabbed.
Later in life I bought at a flea market an 1899 Morgan that the guy had in one of those cardboard holders with the cellophane windows so you could see the front & back of the coin. He wrote on the top 1899-330,000 minted BU. I grabbed it for 40 or 50 bucks. That sat in a Manila envelope with the '16-D. It looked great but after 10 or so years, I noticed a tiny blue spot in the upper right corner on the obverse of the coin. My friend sent that out to PCGS & it came back Genuine, cleaning AU. Since it has been slabbed, the tarnish has spread to the edges on both sides of the coin. So maybe it was cleaned by the guy years before or maybe PCGS thought I had cleaned it and missed a spot. I'll never know. Even though it is a low mintage Morgan, it is not worth that much in AU or BU condition anyway.
Now for the final part of this epic saga. This goes back to the 1950s. As a kid people in Boston were talking about the 1955 Lincoln DD. Everybody was checking their pennies. So, when my grandmother took me with her to the bank, I asked her if she would buy me a roll of pennies.
She bought me 3 rolls. I still have them as I type this. All 3 rolls were mint 1956. 150 mint, in the roll 1956s. I opened the rolls to see if there were any 1955s mixed in. No luck, but I re-rolled them and saved them anyway.
So what I have are 150 mint 1956 pennies, and I have a dilemma. I'd like to know what you folks would do. I'm going to bed now. I'll check in later.
This month's Coin World lists the 1956 as follows: MS60B=.25, MS63RB=.50, MS65R=$15,
MS67R=$1,150
If I joined PCGS for $200 skins & had them all slabbed @$20+ a whack, just in hopes that a few would be graded @ MS67R, that's not feasible.
They all could be graded @ MS65R or less & I would still lose money. ( If I could sell them at that price @ all, because it is such a common date).
Any responses will be appreciated.
Thanks for looking and putting up with this long post J.T.G.

Great post. Not sure what I would do in that situation...

 

[ARC]

Thread is taking good form.