1787 counterfeit NJ copper

[jangrok]

went out to my field of dreams where I pulled the Constellatio, 18 buttons and large cents. well I pulled another coin. snow on the ground doesn't stop the deus. upon cleaning, I realized I had found a New Jersey copper. I've never found one before, but my buddy has found 2. mine looked odd to say the least. the "A" In NOVA was spaced to the right a decent amount, and the horse head looked odd. I know there were many variations of the NJ copper in the couple years it was minted, but with more research, I've come to the conclusion that it is the "serpent head" counterfeit. this makes the find even more interesting to me than if it was a legit nj coin. any NJ copper aficionado/experts here that would like to weigh in? also out of that 5 hour hunt, I pulled a 1798 large cent. attached in the pictures.

 

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[E-Trac-Ohio]

If the Nova is counterfeit or not you had one fantastic hunt - congrats !

 

[ModernMiner]

A hunt I can only dream of. 😭
Great job on the recoveries.
MM

 

[Randy Combs]

I am so jealous

 

[The Rebel]

Don in SJ will know.

@Don in SJ

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

went out to my field of dreams where I pulled the Constellatio, 18 buttons and large cents. well I pulled another coin. snow on the ground doesn't stop the deus. upon cleaning, I realized I had found a New Jersey copper. I've never found one before, but my buddy has found 2. mine looked odd to say the least. the "A" In NOVA was spaced to the right a decent amount, and the horse head looked odd. I know there were many variations of the NJ copper in the couple years it was minted, but with more research, I've come to the conclusion that it is the "serpent head" counterfeit. this makes the find even more interesting to me than if it was a legit nj coin. any NJ copper aficionado/experts here that would like to weigh in? also out of that 5 hour hunt, I pulled a 1798 large cent. attached in the pictures.

What makes you think the serpent is counterfit? There is a legit one that looks like yours listed in the red book. And you have value. My copy is from 1995.

 

[jangrok]

What makes you think the serpent is counterfit? There is a legit one that looks like yours listed in the red book. And you have value. My copy is from 1995.

while reading up on the history of jersey coppers from the university of Notre Dame it states as follows

"along with a more common counterfeit copper called the "Serpent Head" variety, Maris 54-k (an R3, with 151-250 examples surviving). The "Serpent Head," which was the only mass produced counterfeit, was attributed by generations of numismatists to a man named Hatfield. The attribution derives from a letter written by Charles Bushnell in ca. 1875 to Sylvester Crosby. During the 1850s Bushnell had interviewed or written to individuals who had knowledge of the early mints and asked for their recollections."

attached are the articles from Notre dame. the first link goes into depth about the serpent head, the second link talks about the counterfeiting as well

New Jersey Coppers: page 3

From Coins of Colonial and Early America, an exhibit of over 250 items from Massachusetts silver to the provisional half disme of 1792. Features high-resolution images and detailed descriptions.

coins.nd.edu

New Jersey Coppers - Introduction

From Coins of Colonial and Early America, an exhibit of over 250 items from Massachusetts silver to the provisional half disme of 1792. Features high-resolution images and detailed descriptions.

coins.nd.edu

 

[scruggs]

You still had a great hunt!

 

[smokeythecat]

Contemporary counterfeits can be worth more than the originals.

 

[Fugio]

Amazing find, that no doubt holds many secrets. Real nice large cent as well.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

while reading up on the history of jersey coppers from the university of Notre Dame it states as follows

"along with a more common counterfeit copper called the "Serpent Head" variety, Maris 54-k (an R3, with 151-250 examples surviving). The "Serpent Head," which was the only mass produced counterfeit, was attributed by generations of numismatists to a man named Hatfield. The attribution derives from a letter written by Charles Bushnell in ca. 1875 to Sylvester Crosby. During the 1850s Bushnell had interviewed or written to individuals who had knowledge of the early mints and asked for their recollections."

attached are the articles from Notre dame. the first link goes into depth about the serpent head, the second link talks about the counterfeiting as well

New Jersey Coppers: page 3

From Coins of Colonial and Early America, an exhibit of over 250 items from Massachusetts silver to the provisional half disme of 1792. Features high-resolution images and detailed descriptions.

coins.nd.edu

New Jersey Coppers - Introduction

From Coins of Colonial and Early America, an exhibit of over 250 items from Massachusetts silver to the provisional half disme of 1792. Features high-resolution images and detailed descriptions.

coins.nd.edu

Nice read in your links.

My copy of A guide book of United States coins (red book)
by Yeoman, R. S; Bressett, Kenneth
IS 48TH EDITION, THE NEWER ONES STILL SHOW THE SAME INFORMATION AND NEVER DO THEY CLAIM IT TO BE A COUNTERFEIT. You can see a newer version here: 2014, 67th ed p70
by Yeoman, R. S; Bressett, Kenneth

A guide book of United States coins : Yeoman, R. S. (Richard S.) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

463 pages : 20 cm

archive.org

Your link uses 'counterfeit' but without proof. Who minted it is speculation according to them: 'Clearly, based on the above recollection, specifically linking Hatfield to the "Serpent Head" variety is merely a hypothesis. .... Ray Williams suggested that Mr. Hatfield did not operate an illegal mint but was an employee at the Rahway mint.'

Unless their basis is weight being light making it not to spec. But it would also have to be known that the tithe to NJ authorizing production was not paid. That latter part makes it unofficial, the weight just makes it off spec. They also call serpent a 'variety' as does the red book. Since NJ is no longer authorized to print money and dissolved their regulation authority long ago they are all now just collectables no matter their origin, officially commissioned or not. Serpent might be more desirable than a standard issue if it were not standard itself. ( as mentioned by smokeythecat) But does that change with weight? if yours is ~150 grains it is official wt and likely not counterfeit since who actually minted it is not known with certainty. If it was minted by one of those who paid their tithe for the privileged it is official regardless of weight. Records of examples were not kept well it seems. We do know: much is unknown. If anyone tries to tell you it is counterfit ask them to prove it. Opinions from Notre Dame are not proof. It is probably impossible to know nor does it matter much. IMHO

I think you have a great coin. Do you know how to clean that up without making it worse? What does it weigh and what is the exact diameter?

 

[Digger RJ]

went out to my field of dreams where I pulled the Constellatio, 18 buttons and large cents. well I pulled another coin. snow on the ground doesn't stop the deus. upon cleaning, I realized I had found a New Jersey copper. I've never found one before, but my buddy has found 2. mine looked odd to say the least. the "A" In NOVA was spaced to the right a decent amount, and the horse head looked odd. I know there were many variations of the NJ copper in the couple years it was minted, but with more research, I've come to the conclusion that it is the "serpent head" counterfeit. this makes the find even more interesting to me than if it was a legit nj coin. any NJ copper aficionado/experts here that would like to weigh in? also out of that 5 hour hunt, I pulled a 1798 large cent. attached in the pictures.

Very Cool!!!! Congrats!!!!

 

[oldmxrat]

Great finds, congrats!

 

[Trezurehunter]

Looks like a great day pulling coins.