1789 Half Reale Update: Third Known Specimen?

[West Jersey Detecting]

Last summer I found a 1789 half reale with a scarce Guatemala City mintmark. It turns out it was a "transitional" coin due to the passing of the crown from Carolvs III to Carolvs IV. As luck would have it, my coin is has a counterpunched IV over III. Here is the coin:



I was able to find out little about the coin other than what was posted in the original thread (http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=336317.0) showing Krause's price guide.



Other than knowing it was somewhat scarce or rare there was very little further info available. From time to time I have searched online, and even went to the coin show in Philly with no further info and apparently little interest from dealers or auction houses in researching it.

Last night I finally came across info online showing mintage quantities, and here is what I discovered.



I am amazed at how little interest there is for a coin of this rarity, mine being the third known specimen to exist? Especially when you look at a 1916D Mercury Dime, which there were more than 200,000 minted!

 

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[West Jersey Detecting]

Could it be that British Hallmarks had different rules and regulations than the American silversmiths?

Are initial hallmarks different than the symbol hallmarks? Here is an example of the hallmarks of Philadelphia silversmith James Watts who operated from the 1830's to the 1850's. As you can see, over the years he had many different hallmarks.

 

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[Don in SJ]

If you notice in my quote from the collector, he was referring to English marks for the most part, but now you showed there can be alternate,(at least American made that is) that is informative, however, it looks like your friend's mark is neither of the Robert Fairchild marks from what I see The shape of the cartouche appears different (wear?) but the letters punched are also different. Not sure it is the same person now, but perhaps all this will help Neil down the line in eventually finding his cartouche's maker.

Don

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

FYI, I have been searching through thousands of counterstamps and came across this coin with the RF counterstamp and the following description:

RF in small cartouche on Liberty's neck. Host coin VF or so. .... Possibly issued by Rufus Farnham, a Massachusetts silversmith.



Here is the most similar counterstamp I have found yet, but the cartouche is somewhat different.

Primitive countermark J.W. in crenelated obverse cartouche. Host coin VF



And another which Mike Ringo attributed the mark to Sheldon Brown of Buffalo, active ca. 1827 as listed in Ensko

 

[timbobwey]

I'd have to think that coin is worth some serious money. Great find. No matter what anyone says, that thing is rare. Even if it didn't have the counterstamp, the IV over III is a rare find. I'm kinda surprised it didn't make the banner. I guess a lot of people don't understand just how rare it is.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

I'd have to think that coin is worth some serious money. Great find. No matter what anyone says, that thing is rare. Even if it didn't have the counterstamp, the IV over III is a rare find. I'm kinda surprised it didn't make the banner. I guess a lot of people don't understand just how rare it is.

Or they just don't care. One time I found a very scarce 18th century copper colonial coin along with a silver Rosie, and most of the comments were "congrats on the silver!"

 

[timbobwey]

yeah could be, some people don't care to do research on things either before they comment. I've seen some pretty rare pieces wind up on here to get meager results.

 

[johnnyblaze]

Killer find man

You made me wanna go check mine now


Blaze

 

[leddel]

FYI, I have been searching through thousands of counterstamps and came across this coin with the RF counterstamp and the following description:

RF in small cartouche on Liberty's neck. Host coin VF or so. .... Possibly issued by Rufus Farnham, a Massachusetts silversmith.



Here is the most similar counterstamp I have found yet, but the cartouche is somewhat different.

Primitive countermark J.W. in crenelated obverse cartouche. Host coin VF



And another which Mike Ringo attributed the mark to Sheldon Brown of Buffalo, active ca. 1827 as listed in Ensko

that is the same stamp Neil , but the word "possibly" used in that sentence is very open to interpretation as all of the other marks of Rufus Farnham are very different and all use his full last name and from his bio page
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~silversmiths/makers/silversmiths/52276.htm

it would put him alot farther away when this coin is suppose to be marked . so i'm not 100% convinced yet. we may never pin it down but i very much hope you find your stamped coin man soon and please post an update .

Dan

 

[Driftwoood]

I know this thread is somewhat dated, but I wanted to share my coin as a comparison... it has the same or similar counterstamp and it might shed some light on whether or not there is more to the stamp on your coin. The stamp on mine appears to be 'JHS', which I am guessing is a Christogram: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christogram It seems that 'JHS' and 'IHS' are/were used interchangeably in that context. Here's mine:



I figure it was a kind of good luck charm or secret handshake kind of thing, maybe. Yours is the only other I have seen with this particular stamp... I'd like to see another few for comparison.

 

[A2coins]

That's a great find I would put it in a case have it graded amzing find glad for you That's what this hobby is about part of it anyway Thanks for sharing!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Eastcoasthunter21]

Don ,great research on the coin. !! Its great we have such informed people to turn to for into and advice thanks from all of us. !!

 

[Carolina Tom]

Very well done Neil.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Can we see a photo of the reverse? Curious of the mintmark! FYI, I'm fairly certain mine is "unique" in that there's no other specimen of the date from the NG mint with the IV over III.

I know this thread is somewhat dated, but I wanted to share my coin as a comparison... it has the same or similar counterstamp and it might shed some light on whether or not there is more to the stamp on your coin. The stamp on mine appears to be 'JHS', which I am guessing is a Christogram: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christogram It seems that 'JHS' and 'IHS' are/were used interchangeably in that context. Here's mine:

 

[Cal_Cobra]

Great find, no doubt about it.

Unfortunately rarity doesn't always equal demand, and that's what dictates the value.

Apparently a lot more people are interested in collecting 1916D mercs then 1789 transitional Half Reales.... I don't know why

HH,
Cal

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Fantastic rare coin find, congratulations!

 

[Cole55]

Awww man that looks like the coin I dropped could you send it to me....lololol great find

 

[Wildcat1750]

Congratulations on an awesome Spanish Silver that is now even more awesome!