1868 copper something!

[MTHershey]

Looks like a coin, but much thinner. Nothing on the back. I can see a profile of a woman and 1868 at the bottom, but no other writing. Found in a park in Helena, MT. Any help?

 

[kuger]

reminds me of the tokens that were of a a leather like material...cant recall what the material is called.I have some pictures of a couple that were recovered in arid climates that are very well preserved

here is one variety,there are several.They are layered
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...-sf-license-plate-intact-plus-two-tokens.html

 

[MTHershey]

That's exactly it! I only have the front side. Thanks a ton!

 

[CC Hunter]

MtHershey,

Your find is the stamped brass "shell" portion of an advertising token from the later half of the 19th Century, known as a shellcard token. These tokens carry an image that copies gold coins of the period, in this case $20 "Double Eagle" coin design dated 1868. The brass shells of these tokens were produced to accept a printed cardboard insert, as noted in various examples.

Brass TOKEN of Brokaw Brothers, United States, New York City.. 0000.999.56705: American Numismatic Society Collection Database

CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

That's exactly it! I only have the front side. Thanks a ton!

...CC may be correct,did you detect this?If you did,what I posted is not what you have....

 

[CC Hunter]

There are also some varieties that had a thin brass back shell as well, with raised letter imprinting for the business. Cardboard filler was sandwiched in the center, between the two outer stamped brass shells.

mcsearch.info - The medieval & modern coin search engine

CC Hunter

 

[MTHershey]

I did detect it. It looks exactly like the front of the Schnapps token. It is quite obviously copper.

 

[kuger]

CC,did you see the ones in the link I posted?You told me what that material is before?Its like leather?I succeed to your superior knowledge but could you refresh my memory as to what those are?

 

[CC Hunter]

...CC may be correct,did you detect this?If you did,what I posted is not what you have....

The one you posted a link to Kuger, is also a brass shellcard token, and the variety where both sides are thin stamped brass. Any and all of these brass outer shells with give a reading on a metal detector. The only thing that will NOT give a signal, is the cardboard inserts.

CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

not the ones that I posted in that link,they are like a leather material...I took those pictures...Paul said they didnt give a signal,he eyeballed em?I will check em again,I took his word for it,and they sure didnt look like metal to me

 

[MTHershey]

As I said, mine is copper, but identical to the one on the link. It has a hole as if worn as a pendant. The outer edge on the back side is neatly rolled over, so it doesn't look like it covered a center piece.

 

[CC Hunter]

These shellcard tokens come in a variety styles and designs, so possibly there are some with celluloid, or similar inserts. The whole concept was to turn out something big, flashy, and cheap, so whatever material they used, the cost should be minimal (otherwise the companies could simply have solid brass tokens struck, just like coins and other tokens).

CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

As I said, mine is copper, but identical to the one on the link. It has a hole as if worn as a pendant. The outer edge on the back side is neatly rolled over, so it doesn't look like it covered a center piece.

...%99 possible I am completly wrong.CC is always right.As I said,in my hand they didnt seem like metal to me,my friend told me he eyeballed them and that they didnt give a signal.I swear CC told me the name of them at one time but I guess I dreamed it

 

[MTHershey]

I'm sure that is what it is. I appreciate your help. I think it's a pretty cool find.

 

[CC Hunter]

Basically these shellcard tokens were made like the chocolate "gold coins" we can buy now. Two thin shells, sandwiched over a center, but in this case it is cardboard type material, rather than chocolate.

MtHershey,

Your item is very likely the face of the shellcard token, that was made into a pendant, and the edge was flattened. Quite possibly an Indian adornment, as they greatly admired and utilized such items.

CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

when I said layered...thats what I meant,over a cardboard like material so again.....I was mistaken...you win CC

 

[CC Hunter]

Kuger,

There was a fellow that posted online one of these $20. shellcard tokens a few years ago, that was found metal detecting a Central Pacific RR camp in Northern Utah or SW Wyoming. His was perfectly intact, and I forget now the business that was advertised, yet I do recall there was a very sizable offer for the token, due to the rarity.

Ironman can no doubt provide better information regarding tokens, as he is much more versed in this field than I am.

I have dug and handled a few of the brass outer shells of these tokens over the years, and they are very thin, almost like aluminum foil. A complete example with the cardboard center intact, would still blow out of a fellow's hand with a stiff breeze.

CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

....yep,sounds like the ones I posted....I need to see my old friend anyway....I am throwin the detector in,when I go!!Maybe it was Ironman that told me the name....or I did dream it

 

[CC Hunter]

Kuger,

The one you posted in the link, is also correct and the same style as what I was describing. That is what I was attempting to say.

When I first began my original reply here on this thread, there was only the one very first inquiry at the top by MTHershey. Unfortunately, in the middle of my online search for a comparable example to link in my post, the phone rang here, consequently my post was delayed by nearly a half hour. Since I did not see your earlier reply, my first post did not allude to the fact that you had supplied the correct match as well.

The point that was clarified though, was that all of these "1868 Liberty $20 Gold" outer shells should give some sort of a signal on a metal detector.

Per the description of the finder in the post you have linked (the original photo is also attached):

"The reverse of the token shows that it is made of two pieces of metal affixed to a blank, possibly a piece of wood."

CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

Kuger,

After scrolling down in your link to the earlier posts, I noted the examples you also posted earlier of the Udolpho Wolfe tokens. Oddly enough, the top photo examples you posted appears as though the back portion of the thin brass shell was removed, then the center filler was taken out, and the back was then placed back inside "backwards" or inside out. That is an oddity and likely the result of someone with some extra free time or boredom.

CC Hunter