2 Unmarked Bayonets, German and US

[bigcaddy64]

These 2 were part of a much larger haul of knives I purchased last Saturday but just got around to looking them over and photographing.

The longer one is obviously a European (German/Swiss) bayonet but it lacks any and all markings! Not a single one is present which makes it hard to determine its origin

The shorter one is US made and probably for an 03 Springfield rifle but all it has for markings is a US stamp and serial number. Not a single manufacturer cartouche!

I really like the US bayonet because it has been cut down, reshaped and the handle has been embellished with some beautiful cord wrapping that was possibly done during battle. This is a WWI weapon and there was lots of close up trench fighting done. A 16" blade would be quite unwieldy so a shortened version would make sense.

Does anybody have input on either blade? Most info online is based heavily on identifying marks/serial numbers, both of which these are somewhat lacking.

 

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[bigcaddy64]

Forgot to add, not pictured is a Buck 119 fixed blade in the exposed style scabbard. All from the same box at a garage sale. 15.00 for the entire haul of knives

 

[Paleo_joe]

Length is key to ID: http://worldbayonets.com/Misc__Pages/bayonets_by_length/index_by_oal.html

 

[bigcaddy64]

Length is key to ID: Bayonets Listed by Overall Length

so it seems. Ill take a precise measurement when i get home and see what i really have. This is gonna be fun!

 

[bigcaddy64]

Well it measures 11.75 inches and not one listed has all of the exact details as mine does. This is going to be harder then I thought

 

[mick56]

The US bayonet could have been cut down, and then re-issued in WWII, as I believe it would also fit the M1 Garand.

 

[diggummup]

The one looks like an old German Mauser Bayonet.

 

[Paleo_joe]

Yeah Mauser

 

[FormerTeller]

Length is key to ID: Bayonets Listed by Overall Length

Awesome site! Many thanks!

 

[diggummup]

It is possible there are some numbers under the scales on the German one.

 

[bigcaddy64]

It is possible there are some numbers under the scales on the German one.

I'll check it out tomorrow morning when I have some free time. As for the US bayonet, it doesn't fit onto an M1 garand. I tried it on one and it doesn't fit.

 

[augoldminer]

I'll check it out tomorrow morning when I have some free time. As for the US bayonet, it doesn't fit onto an M1 garand. I tried it on one and it doesn't fit.

interesting as my 16 inch 03 Springfield rifle bayonet fits my M1 garand.

i believe your US bayonet at one time fit a garand but has been worked over and may have at least a non military guard

 

[uglymailman]

Could you give a pic. of the butt end so we can see the bayonet lugs? Thanks.

 

[diggummup]

Could you give a pic. of the butt end so we can see the bayonet lugs? Thanks.

Speaking of lugs, that precarious angle on that guard could be the reason this one doesn't fit right. Sure looks like a cut down 1905 to me.

 

[bigcaddy64]

I should of clarified my message. The reason it didn't fit was due to the custom wrapping on the handle. I'm sure the knife was cut down but not exactly sure when.

 

[bigcaddy64]

Well, I did some more looking last night and here is what I found out.

The one marked 1910 is heavily modified for carrying as a trench knife. I compared it to the bayonet the my grandfather brought home from his time in the pacific.

So far i can see the following mods:

Bobbed the pommel

Bayonet lug filled with lead

Barrel loop has been cut off

Blade has been cut/reprofiled

Detachment lug/spring assembly has been removed

Handle has been wrapped in a natural fiber twine to give extra grip if the person doing some stabbing happens to get their hands “wet”

I was going to sell this, along with the supposed German one, but now I might have to just keep this one due to the morbid curiosity factor.

 

[bigcaddy64]

My grandfathers bayonet was also shortened but done so by the govt as a post WWII, pre Korean War issue item. The blade is ground but has been parkerized so the grinding was done prior to the finish being applied.

His is the one on top the very first photograph. The older version has the longer blade and appears to be a bit dirtier