2008 EXPEDITION: YAMASH-I-T-A ( Japanese) TREASURE

[renantagum30]

the problem is you were not there and have seen it. that is why all you do is say, it does not exist and there could be other explanations why there was a mini earthquake and why there were soudns of falling bars. but hey, it could be true, it could just be septic tanks sliding down the drain or the tunnel. it could be anything. i guess we found nothing, nothing of value.

i am not here to argue with you anymore because i see your point. it could be nothing. can we let this case lay to rest? where are these arguments heading to? i already concede we have nothing to show and it could be nothing and not a cement vault if that is what you want to point to us...

but deep inside my heart, and i was there (and you were not), i still believe that it exist. can we just agree to disagree? that i believe it exist and you believe it does not exist?

yamasues could open up another topic .

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

ok.

 

[billwarren]

from Bill Warren- were the 3 gold ships found at Saipan and Guam?

The picture of the Old Jap that I have attached to my alias here is a most interesting man. Below I have written can you guess who I am and to date no one has been able to identify him.

Who is he?? Well the name he used from 1945 to his death in 2000 is Julio Valensuela. That is the name he purchased from the Catholic Church at the end of the war. Who was he?? He was one who got away from MacArthur, while MacArthur and his friends were busy torturing Tomoyuki Y a m a s h i t a 's DRIVER , they over looked his personal COOK and FOOD TASTER. That being Julio. He spent many years running in the islands and finally was able to stop running. I first met him in 1987 via some of Marcos leg men, from a man who was one of the original 16 guerrilla fighters under Marcos in the retreat across Battan. After Marcos was hijacked from Luzon, a lot of things fell apart. In 1987 some of the ones "left behind" whom my father had known from the 70's brought Julio to us.

There is large quantities as of last checked 1988 still in Saipan and Guam. That is why the **** used so much Korean slave labor digging the massive tunnels in Saipan. When the USG invaded Saipan, a jap convoy of gold metal was in rout there but was forced to scuttle the ships (3 treasure transport ships) that were in rout. Julio and friends dove on it in 1988 and it was untouched then and no foreign nation patrol boats hanging around the area as spotters. The cost of such a deep water recovery were totally out of our league. Y a m a s h i t a had little to nothing to do in the gathering of bullion. His military career was short at the beginning of the war and was only called out to be sent to the Philippine theatre as a throw away, to fight to the death and cause damage to help the Emperor negotiate a better deal with the USG. The extensive tunneling and cement fortifications for burial were all engineered and built before he actually arrived in the Philippines. The pic. I show was taken in 1988 and signatured by Julio at the time he gave it to me along with a copy of his Catholic Church birth certificate and some other things.

He was a very interesting guy. To set and drink tea with him was a throwback in time and almost eire.

ZOBEX

So, were the 3 gold ships found at Guam and Saipan and salvaged? I have a letter.

 

[billwarren]

does anyone know if the 3 japanese freighters with 100 tons of gold each have been found at Guam? I have a letter about this

 

[billwarren]

lets talk about the 3 ships of yamashita's gold in guam. my email is: [email protected]

 

[renantagum30]

zobex and tony wells are the most knowledgeable guys with regards to this matter.

 

[South Sea mariner]

Hola Amigos

Sorry to burst ones bubble...

There is a well known Diver in Guam called Webber who has been diving there for over 40 years and very well acquainted with shipwrecks around the Islands. While 3 Japanese Ships are n fact true none of them was ever carrying gold on them. Sorry but those are the facts.

In Guam’s Apra Harbor, there are three Japanese ships on the ocean floor: Takai Maru, a 8359-ton passenger-cargo; Kitsugawa Maru, a 1,915-ton transport; and Nichiyu Maru, a 6,871-ton converted mine layer.still full of mines.

“While the condition of the vessels is quite good considering their age and the fact that they have been submerged for more than 60 years, they are beginning to deteriorate from a combination of rust, years in the sea and storms in the region,” Webber said.Tokai Maru is a popular diving target because she leans against the German Cargo ship SMS Cormoran II, which was scuttled during World War I. In 1988, a mooring buoy was installed over the Tokai Maru and the Cormoran II for scuba divers to use.

“The Tokai Maru was sunk by the U.S. submarine SS Swordfish,” Webber said. “The Swordfish fired three torpedoes from outside the harbor and one of them hit the Tokai and she sunk directly on top of SMS Cormoran II.

“This particular dive on two naturally sunken vessels from two separate world wars is a signature dive on Guam,” Webber said. “It is also the only location in the world that I am aware of in which you can make one dive and literally touch two separate sunken vessels from two separate world wars.”

Webber cautioned that diving around Tokai Maru, which is part of the National Register of Historic Places on Guam, can be dangerous and only experienced divers should attempt to penetrate them.“All sunken vessels are pieces of history to be preserved and protected,” Webber said. “Divers must also consider that many of these vessels are actually gravesites for mariners and as such, must be respected.”

Anyone calming that they had gold on them is definitely having a leg pull.....

Here is clip below exploring the wreck of the Tokai Maru ......



Below is the Kitsugawa Maru,



The Nichiyu Maru the third vessel was being used as mine layer full of sea mines. Nichiyu maru (Nissan Kisen, 6936grt) IJN Aux. Mine layer
Completed in Dec 1938. Sunk at Guam Island on 13 July 44 by US Aircraft.



Diving on decaying ship wreck with tons of rusting Sea mines is not good idea unless your intending to exit the gene pool. :-)

Mal

 

[sea.thunter7]

Anyone calming that they had gold on them is definitely having a leg pull.....

Just curious, why are you so sure none of these ships have any gold on them?

 

[South Sea mariner]

Just curious, why are you so sure none of these ships have any gold on them?

Hola Amigo

2 things. Research and Common sense.

1st:RESEARCH As you can see yourself there has been long history 70 years of divers since WW2 exploring the wrecks below.

The TOKAI MARU is a 8,359 gross ton steel hull Japanese passenger-cargo ship with two 2 cycle, 6 cylinder diesel engines. The TOKAI MARU was built for the Osaka Shosen Co. by the Mitsubishi Heavy Industry Shipyard in Nagasaki, Japan. The TOKAI
MARU provided passenger and cargo service to New York City from Japan prior to World War II. During the war, the ship served as a transport for the Imperial Japanese Navy. The TOKAI MARU presently lies at the bottom of Apra Harbor, Guam.
The ship has a net tonage of 5,047 tons, a displacement of 15,801 tons, a deadweight of 10,108 tons and a cargo volumn of 17,455m r Her water!ine length is 135.94m with a width of 18.44m, a depth of 12.42m and a draught of 8.53m. Her engines developed a horsepower of 8,138 with a cruising speed of 14.19 knots and anda maximum speed of 18.323 knots. Her serial number is 36099 and call sign of JJJC.

She was built as a modern motorship with a superstructure midship of four decks. On top is a squat funnel. The deck is flush except for a raised bow deck. Her bow is a plumb with a crusier-spoon stern. She has four masts. Her foremast and aftermast have crosstrees. Her mainmast and mizzen are goal posts. Numerous derricks are attached to the masts.

She lies in 120 feet of water on her port side at an 85° angle. A torpedo has blown a hole in the #2 port cargo hold. There is some damage to the starboard bow around the railing. The cargo holds contain scrap steel, car and truck frames, bed
springs, and a complete truck. Some parts of the ship have been removed by divers. Except for the war damage and the removed parts, the vessels is intact. The united states navy divers dived on the wreck just after she was sunk to search for anything of value. People have dived on the wreck for 70 years or more. All the ships cargo holds was open to inspection. No gold amigo!

The Tokai Maru is a large ship, over 440 feet long. She rests in 120 feet with an 85 degree list to port (left). The shallowest part of the ship is the upper forward bridge area at a depth of 40 feet. A torpedo has blown a hole in the port #3 cargo hold, and this is undoubtedly the torpedo that sunk her. There is damage on the starboard bow, but this is believed to have been inflicted on the first attack in January 1943. The cargo holds contains remains of truck frames, beds, scrap steel, and miscellaneous objects. The engine room is huge, and both of her engines, catwalks, and panels are intact. The after-deck house in the stern of the vessel contains at least four unexploded depth charges, which are plainly visible from the top of the structure. DO NOT attempt to touch or move these depth charges.



Nichiyu Maru after the capture Guam a United navy team dived on the ship and found nothing of value The ship was being used as mine layer full of sea mines. Nichiyu maru (Nissan Kisen, 6936grt) IJN Aux. Mine layer
Completed in Dec 1938. Sunk at Guam Island on 13 July 44 by US Aircraft. and destroyed the wreck with demolition charges to avoid the ship being a hazard to other shipping using the harbor. Sadly no Gold Amigo?


The Japanese freighter Kitsugawa Maru - another casualty of the days prior to the US invasion of Guam in 1944. Torpedoed by the submarine USS Seahorse, she was towed into the harbor for repairs and, while at anchor, was attacked by bombs and rocket fire from raiding US aircraft, finally sinking when her engine room exploded, tearing the ship in two and sending her into the depths where she sits upright on her keel at an average depth of 140 feet. Here is the ship sinking in 1944 with her crew going over the side. He cargo was food and supplies for 20000 strong Japanese army garrison on the island. Sadly no Gold!




All 3 shipwrecks have repeatedly been dived on for 70 years by thousands of people. And guess what no gold?


Secondly: Common sense says.... Why would the Japanese send 100 tons of gold to what was in effect the front line that needed tanks, guns and ammo. not burden of gold? By 1944 America rules the waves. No Japanese commander worth their salt would send a ship unsupported by aircraft carriers battle ships and air cover carrying 100 hundred tons of gold. To hide on Guam on an island that originally belonged to the United states who was in the process recapturing the island. Guam was never going to be given to Japan in any peace deal. So in effect the very notion that any of those ships having gold in the final days of WW2 was just wishful thinking.

If I was going to search for a ship that might of had gold on it was the Japanese Hospital ship that was sunk in the Sulu sea Philippines. But once again that needs extensive research, time and very deep pockets.

Mal

 

[yamazues]

There was gold cargo on that ship guaranteed. First, all WW2 ships had gold to buy fuel. Second, that ship was involved in gold loot smuggling. Third..., noone ever gets the gold...

 

[yamazues]

Hola Amigos

Sorry to burst ones bubble...

There is a well known Diver in Guam called Webber who has been diving there for over 40 years and very well acquainted with shipwrecks around the Islands. While 3 Japanese Ships are n fact true none of them was ever carrying gold on them. Sorry but those are the facts.

In Guam’s Apra Harbor, there are three Japanese ships on the ocean floor: Takai Maru, a 8359-ton passenger-cargo; Kitsugawa Maru, a 1,915-ton transport; and Nichiyu Maru, a 6,871-ton converted mine layer.still full of mines.

“While the condition of the vessels is quite good considering their age and the fact that they have been submerged for more than 60 years, they are beginning to deteriorate from a combination of rust, years in the sea and storms in the region,” Webber said.Tokai Maru is a popular diving target because she leans against the German Cargo ship SMS Cormoran II, which was scuttled during World War I. In 1988, a mooring buoy was installed over the Tokai Maru and the Cormoran II for scuba divers to use.

“The Tokai Maru was sunk by the U.S. submarine SS Swordfish,” Webber said. “The Swordfish fired three torpedoes from outside the harbor and one of them hit the Tokai and she sunk directly on top of SMS Cormoran II.

“This particular dive on two naturally sunken vessels from two separate world wars is a signature dive on Guam,” Webber said. “It is also the only location in the world that I am aware of in which you can make one dive and literally touch two separate sunken vessels from two separate world wars.”

Webber cautioned that diving around Tokai Maru, which is part of the National Register of Historic Places on Guam, can be dangerous and only experienced divers should attempt to penetrate them.“All sunken vessels are pieces of history to be preserved and protected,” Webber said. “Divers must also consider that many of these vessels are actually gravesites for mariners and as such, must be respected.”

Anyone calming that they had gold on them is definitely having a leg pull.....

Here is clip below exploring the wreck of the Tokai Maru ......



Below is the Kitsugawa Maru,



The Nichiyu Maru the third vessel was being used as mine layer full of sea mines. Nichiyu maru (Nissan Kisen, 6936grt) IJN Aux. Mine layer
Completed in Dec 1938. Sunk at Guam Island on 13 July 44 by US Aircraft.

View attachment 1640494

Diving on decaying ship wreck with tons of rusting Sea mines is not good idea unless your intending to exit the gene pool. :-)

Mal

Truth is; ALL World War 2 ships carried gold. How do you think they paid for fuel in foreign countries? Some cargoed gold. I know treasure hunters that never got a single thing. Funny how they millionaires now?

 

[yamazues]

Most all did. U.S. Navy sent divers down to retrieve most sll gold on ships years ago

 

[yamazues]

Thumbs up on that one Tom. Metal Detecting sure beats drugs. I’m in Missouri now. Ever get out this way? Can your detectors see 30 feet down? [email protected]

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Most all did. U.S. Navy sent divers down to retrieve most sll gold on ships years ago

I metal detected ....... back in the late 1980s ....... with one of those USA Navy divers that you speak of. At the time, he would have been about 65 or 70- ish. He is now long-since passed away. R.I.P.

We were just hunting for coins/relics @ stage stops, yards, etc.... @ 30-ish years ago. Ie.: small-time coin-shooter stuff). But he would regale me with stories about his experiences @ diving on wrecks, for military purposes during his war-time experience. Eg.: They came in after WWII battles to clear wreckage from harbor mouths, search for any intelligence @ the sunken ships (maps ? decoder devices? etc...). At this time, it was before scuba, so they were in hard-suits, connected to the surface with breathing lines.

And he was involved in so much of this wreck-diving post-battle clearing/investigation, that he told me the following:

Him and his buddies would ........... while underneath ......... collect .... uh ... "souvenirs". If/when they spotted corpses, they would remove rings, watches, etc... (Bear in mind, this was often in the day or two following a battle). They were told by their superiors "no souvenir hunting". But ... as you can bet: Those young fellers simply disobeyed and did so anyhow . To the rolled eyes and indifferent humor of their superiors, haha. I guess souvenir hunting is a right-of-passage for any battle-front veteran.

He told me that, by the end of the war, he had an entire cigar box filled with gold rings, watches, etc.... Found during the wreck diving that you speak of.

HOWEVER : At no time, did the "treasures" that you speak of, ever enter the conversation. If there were ever such treasures (aside from individual watches/rings), THAT would most certainly have been what he would be telling me about. This was all in the context of my asking him "what got you started in your interests in md'ing?".

Now I suppose you will just fire back that he was being less than forthcoming. Right ? Ie.: he was "guarding the secret" and simply left me in the dark. Right ? Or that he-too was hood-winked by higher ups. Who sent different divers to "retrieve the gold". Hence, low-lings such as him just weren't privy to the information. Right ? Ok. Sure. Such conspiracy theory brush-asides will justify ANYTHING someone wants to promote. Eg.: UFO's, Elvis is still alive, Oak Island, etc... Aren't conspiracy theories wonderful ?

But ... just sayin' ...... that when you mentioned these divers, I recollected my old hunting buddy (RIP) who was EXACTLY one of them. And with whom I'd EXACTLY had conversations about his experiences in the Pacific during WWII. And ..... ZERO of the treasures, that you speak of.

And ... as for the notion that treasure/gold was required for the fuel purchases, ok, let's put that to the test too: So too did airplanes (both on the allies and the axis sides) require fuel. And there is no shortage of historical bios (youtube interview videos, etc....) of those pilots. Did they carry gold to "buy fuel" when/where they landed ?

How do you, or a tanker fuel truck who arrives to deliver or load fuel, pay for it? Do YOU carry gold bars to buy your car's fuel ? Does a tanker driver carry gold bars to pick up deliver fuel ? Granted, things were different in the 1930s and '40s. But ........ Stop and think: This was in an era before trans-pacific and trans-pacific air-traffic/transport. So even DESPITE any wars: Shipping was the ONLY way of moving cargo. And ......... sure ..... they all needed fuel. So if your notion that all of them were filled with treasure to "buy fuel", then ....... why stop at a single WWII story ? Why not chase every single ship that ever sailed ? After all, they were all "laden with treasure" to buy fuel at their next stop. Right ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Can your detectors see 30 feet down? [email protected]

Ok. I took your invitation. I emailed you Re.: "detectors that see 30 ft. down". And the "treasure" that this would be in conjunction with. Looking forward to your reply

 

[yamazues]

To: Butz,

I understand that most treasure sites buried by a few soldiers are just a few tons.....but we have extensive research and explored these areas for a minimum of 5 years on each big volume sites....we do believe based on ACTUAL LIVE POINTER VISUAL SURVEY INSIDE THIS TREASURE CHAMBER....ITS INDEED MORE THAN 200 TONS......In fact El Sombrero Treasure 2....has a marking 1020 TONS ON THE WALL beside 2 samurai hanging and 4 chamber filled with 10 feet gold stockfiles.....our native live pointer has been extensively interrogated ...SO BELIEVE THEM....of course ONLY GOD KNOWS IF WE SUCCEED.

I am sure there are much larger deposits. From my expeditions and research, the IJA captured much more gold than they had estimated. So, some deposits were much larger and less intricately protected than the earlier deposits. Good luck and God Bless

 

[yamazues]

Cool story Tom. There was SCUBA gear back in WW 2. As far as all ships carrying gold, you could be correct. But this I know, as facts. The IJA looted more wealth than Nazi Germany. Have you ever heard if the ‘Monuments men’? They were as trustworthy as they come. Gold has a way of making good people go bad. Your friend doesn’t sound very trustworthy. I’m pretty sure they would have hidden the facts right underneath his nose. Most soldiers on all sides were not aware of any treasures. Can you imagine the moral if all of the soldiers knew that what they were fighting fir and risking their lives, was really some rich man’s money, and they weren’t getting any A few Japanese soldiers that were entrusted to open the ‘ammo’ crates with treasure, stole some even. They were found out, killed, voodooed and their dead bodies placed over those gold vaults for their spirits to guard forever. I know personally people who lived in Philippines at the time of WW2 and who were Guerrillas and witnesses to Japanese there.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... There was SCUBA gear back in WW 2. .....

Yes. It was in it's infancy. And other forms of line-free diving ("rebreathers") etc... were in existence. But for the work my friend did , they were connected with lines to the surface.

.... The IJA looted more wealth than Nazi Germany.....

Ymazues: This is par-for-the-course of any treasure-legend faithful: Pick any legend you wish (Oak Island, Lost Dutchman, etc...) and you will see the exact same psychology: In order to prop up and bolster the legend, all that the faithful need to do, is go find stuff in history that's "true" . Eg.: Names, dates, fuel capacities, events, etc... Then presto: There *must* be a treasure that can now be searched for. Right ?

But this fails to realize that EVERY treasure legend was, sure, based on some historical event. But doesn't necessarily lend itself to : "Therefore, a treasure exists". In the next post, I will give you an example of what I'm talking about.

.... Gold has a way of making good people go bad. Your friend doesn’t sound very trustworthy. I’m pretty sure they would have hidden the facts right underneath his nose. Most soldiers on all sides were not aware of any treasures. ....

Well gee, I was pretty dead-on accurate with my predictions then. I predicted that .... when I challenged your "wreck-diver" post. When I went to relate this first-hand experience/friendship with EXACTLY one of those wreck-divers, I predicted that you would dismiss it , by saying that this person was somehow less-than-forthcoming to me. Or that he-too was hood-winked . And that .... there were other higher-ranking divers who were "in-the-know". And everything I predicted came true, right down to the letter.

So, as I said: Conspiracy theories are wonderful. They can be used to bolster any assertion , that anyone cares to put forth.

.... I know personally people who lived in Philippines at the time of WW2 and who were Guerrillas and witnesses to Japanese there. ....

I have no doubt that you have run into people there, with dazzling stories. And each of them will sound iron-clad bullet-proof true. That saw this or saw that. So too was I the victim of this psychology when I went chasing treasure legends in Mexico 25-ish years ago. My guide who took me, had various stories , that ... it sounded like metal detectors would make it CHILD'S play to find. And each one, like your situation, had "people who knew such & such" or "people who saw such & such", blah blah blah.

But after 3 weeks down there , in the Sierra Madres villages, I began to perceive that ...... all it is, is telephone game gone awry. They all tell the stories in "first-hand present tense". But when you press them for details, well ... it turns out they heard it from so & so . Thus perhaps THEY didn't "see the treasure", but ... not to worry: Because they got the info on good authority from so & so. Hence you track down that person. And they too are spouting the story in first-person present tense. You ask to see some of the coins. And .. you guessed it: They didn't actually see it either. But not to worry, they got it on good authority from yet another person. And so on till infinity ! And each person in the daisy chain is utterly convinced they are getting it , first hand. And retells it, in first-hand sense.

So I began to dismiss all such stories as nothing but telephone game. And even those stories that perhaps WERE "firsthand", were often subject to interpretation, speculation, etc.... So for example, a middle age lady, who was spinning one of the treasure stories , was telling of where she saw some soldiers , as a kid , burying something in secrecy. Thus, she was certain she, now as an adult 40 yrs. later, knew where a treasure likely was. Don't you see ? It's likely easily attributable to some other explanation. But in some of these 3rd world countries (Mexico, Philippines), it's just ingrained in the culture to be easily drawn into legends of this sort .

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Let me give you this example of my 2nd point above . But ... please... don't get "lost in the example"

Here in the USA, there were several metal detecting magazines in the 1960s and 1970s. In the era before the internet, they were popular reading for us metal detecting buffs. And the magazines of that era, tended to be filled with ..... go figure: Treasure stories. Eg.: Lost Dutchman, stolen stagecoach loot, missing military payroll stories, etc.... In addition to the normal metal detecting related articles that people submitted.

The "lost treasure" stories were always a fun read

A guy that I knew and detected with submitted one of those stories, back in the late 1970s. He did so in order to get the $100 acceptance publication payment. And just to have fun, because he enjoyed writing. He wrote an entirely made up story, of some wild west bank robbery. Where the robbers fled the scene, and were later captured by the posse, yet the loot was missing. And then all the juicy details of the various clues of where the loot might be in the desert west mountains of Arizona, to this day, blah blah blah. It was just another "text book" treasure legend story, that probably sounded like all the others of that day. Entirely made up fancy.

And he was sure to use real names, dates, events, places, etc... to build the story around. And toss in a few faded newspaper clippings of those "real things". So that in other words, his story didn't start with "once upon a time". Rather: It was based on actual things, that someone, if they wanted, could research further. And then, sure: They can "prove" a lot of the stuff in my friend's story.

Yet despite all the "truths" of my friend's story, yet there is NO TREASURE. (we got a laugh wondering if anyone ever actually went looking for this treasure )

SO TOO is the psychology you're falling for about this Yamashita stuff: It is VERY EASY to find salacious details, that may be 100% true. And given a person's confirmation-bias, they can seem to bolster a treasure you believe in. I'll bet there's been "loots and spoils of war" taken in every battle or war ever fought. But this does not mean: "Ergo, 200 tons of Yamashita loot is bound to be in a certain jungle cave".

 

[XLV]

I have a question for south sea about a hospital ship sunk in the sulu sea .....was this ship sunk before or after oct 26 1944 ....for years i heard of hospital ship seen off dumaguete about that date .....i know of 2 sunken ships south of negros one is probably a patrol boat the other one ? ( in about 300 feet of water) ...am searching for the light cruiser that sunk in the sulu sea ( i dont believe what the books say where it sunk ) ...your 100% right about those guam ships and very few ships out of the 2000 ships had gold