5 oz ATB set question

[Rojas108]

What does everybody think I should do. Get it graded and hold on to it or grade it and sell it. I am new to this coin world and I am wondering how much of their price is based on silver vs the rarity of them. Etc 80% based on silver and 20% on the rarity? Any input would be great thanks.


I posted this in the coin forum but nobody replied or really looked at it

 

[jim4silver]

I don't own these coins, so I may be the wrong person to answer this. But the way I see it the only way you win getting it graded is if it comes back MS70. If it is a 69 who really cares. I mean a coin straight from the mint should at least be a 69, right?

If I owned such coins I would keep them in their original holders and stash them away.

The only coins I care about being graded are old, one time actual circulating coins that are in great shape, such as US gold coins and silver dollars, etc.

Jim

 

[Rojas108]

ms 69's and 70's are going for a lot of money though $400 to $600 on ebay.

 

[jrf30]

I just bought a set, and was wondering the same thing. I decided I'm going to stash them away and wait a few years. When this program kicks in more over time and people want to buy the first year of the coins, I think the value will be a LOT higher than it is now. Right now MANY people are flipping the coins. So they are out there and supply is okay. Demand will remain the same, but supply will dry up, and prices shall move up.

My guess anyway. And it IS a guess. In the meantime I paid $1100 for the set, so that is $44 per ounce. About the same as an eagle right now. So I can hold them and see what happens. I'd love to get a few more sets at $1100 each, but 1 was all I could get (And I got that because of this site. Someone posted about a company selling them one Saturday morning, and I called and bought a set. Thank you to this site for that!)

 

[AGCoinHunter]

I picked up a set via Jack Hunt. Paid $949 + $20 for overnight mail of the money order. So basically picked up 25 ounces of AG for little under $39 an ounce. If they give me AG under spot and the potential upside on these are as good as I have read, I am happy. Four of the five are DMLP so I cant complain about that either. Would like to get a second set but not enough free funds handy at the moment and my wife sure wont go for it again...

To answer the OP question, these are bullion coins with a potential collector upside due to the clusterfark called the US Mint. The distribution of these was bungled beyond belief. Right now 100% of the price is bullion with some extra thrown in if you go through one of the AP's. I feel its a no brainer if you can get the complete set under $1k.

 

[mts]

So I've read that they are coming out with "numismatic" versions of these coins that will be sold for about $280 each. These have a different finish and mint mark from the standard bullion coins. I would think that these would naturally grade much higher and be worth more in the long run. I've never been a fan of buying bullion that carries such a high premium. But if your intention is to get it graded and sell for a high profit, I'd think that this would be a contributing factor in making that decision. Why would someone buy a graded MS69 bullion coin for much more than they could potentially get a "numismatic" coin that looks just as good? If nothing else, it should be worth noting that they are about to almost double the number of ATB coins that exist so that has to cause the prices to drop slightly.

Thoughts?

http://news.coinupdate.com/america-the-beautiful-silver-coins-numismatic-release-0768/

 

[Coinkid]

I have gotten about 7 sets of these from 5 different suppliers. There's no reason not to buy silver under melt. I sent off 3 to be graded, and unfortunately all came back in 67DMPL holders. If they had been 69DMPLS, I would have made a couple thousand as they are worth around $1000 each, depending on the park. As for now, I've sold a couple sets, and am still waiting on others to be delivered. But if you think you have a 69DMPL, it's definitley worth it to send it over to PCGS.



-Paul

 

[mts]

I have gotten about 7 sets of these from 5 different suppliers. There's no reason not to buy silver under melt. I sent off 3 to be graded, and unfortunately all came back in 67DMPL holders. If they had been 69DMPLS, I would have made a couple thousand as they are worth around $1000 each, depending on the park. As for now, I've sold a couple sets, and am still waiting on others to be delivered. But if you think you have a 69DMPL, it's definitley worth it to send it over to PCGS.

-Paul

What was the cost to have one of these graded by PCGS?

 

[yonico]

unless I believe it'll come back ms70(even then, i only do that cause i know i'll get a high premium on eBay, i don't do that for my own bullion) , I NEVER send bullion to be graded. and that's what it is. straight bullion. i think it's a waste of money, and even though i get my 5 free gradings from NGC every year i spend it on something else.

 

[Rojas108]

I understand that it is bullion, however there is a limited number ever made and first of the series. If people just want bullion then they can buy it anywhere. So you wouldn't think these are for the collector. I can go on the street and buy as much bullion as I want... 20 30 40 kgs no problem, however I can't go and buy any of these coins.(only on the cpu). So they are a little more than just bullion don't you think?

I got mine for under spot as well 949 plus overnight price from jack hunt as well.

 

[jim4silver]

Even if they bring in over melt they are still bullion-collectible bullion perhaps. If it weren't for sites like ebay I doubt these would be so easy to sell for such high prices. There seems to always be someone out there willing to pay, look at the days where people would pay high prices for Beanie Babies.

The worry I would have about modern day bullion collectibles (that is paying way over spot) is what might happen in the future. Sure, if silver keeps going up there will always be silver value, but the collector value could vaporize.

There are many different types of numismatic coins (not bullion but real US coins) that were worth more in the somewhat recent past than they are now (some rare silver dollars were worth much more in the late 80s than they are now for some reason). Seems to go against logic that collectible coins would go down in value as opposed to up as time goes on but it happens, especially when the price far exceeds the metal content value.

My niche area is old US gold so that is all I feel comfortable with, but there seems to be many areas where an ebay seller can clean up if he/she can get the items for a decent price then resell them to some collector that will pay whatever it takes to get them. I wish I was not afraid to try selling on ebay because I know I could do well.

Jim

 

[mts]

Even if they bring in over melt they are still bullion-collectible bullion perhaps. If it weren't for sites like ebay I doubt these would be so easy to sell for such high prices. There seems to always be someone out there willing to pay, look at the days where people would pay high prices for Beanie Babies.

The worry I would have about modern day bullion collectibles (that is paying way over spot) is what might happen in the future. Sure, if silver keeps going up there will always be silver value, but the collector value could vaporize.

There are many different types of numismatic coins (not bullion but real US coins) that were worth more in the somewhat recent past than they are now (some rare silver dollars were worth much more in the late 80s than they are now for some reason). Seems to go against logic that collectible coins would go down in value as opposed to up as time goes on but it happens, especially when the price far exceeds the metal content value.

My niche area is old US gold so that is all I feel comfortable with, but there seems to be many areas where an ebay seller can clean up if he/she can get the items for a decent price then resell them to some collector that will pay whatever it takes to get them. I wish I was not afraid to try selling on ebay because I know I could do well.

Jim

As usual, I agree with you. As I was saying in another thread, there is a big push by a lot of "investment" companies to try and sell MS-63 graded Gold Double Eagles as investments. One company that I know of is marketing these things as "great deals" at about $2400. Yet I can buy AU grade coins of the same years for less than $1700. The reason why these companies choose to sell the MS-63 or better coins is because there is a huge profit/markup on them. That should probably tell you all that you need to know. So I stay away from coins like that. I'm not saying that you can't potentially make a lot of money off of them. But they carry more risk (and I guess, potentially more reward).

Let's put it this way. If things really do get much worse, then these "luxury" coins will lose their value much quicker than coins that carry a lower premium. And the worse things get, the closer these coins will get to melt value. Now I'm not expecting it to ever get that bad. But the world is not black and white. There are many gray areas where these premium coins can lose significant value.

So those of you buying these ATB coins for around melt (or less) are definitely getting a great deal. But those people who are buying them for $400+ a coin are crazy in my opinion.

 

[Rojas108]

How come you say if it wasn't for sites like ebay there wouldn't be a market. The whole thing is that there are sites like ebay.(i don't think they are going anywhere) Sites like these make it everything an even playing field and create there own market.

I also agree paying $400 bucks a coin is crazy but I got mine under spot.

 

[jim4silver]

Even if they bring in over melt they are still bullion-collectible bullion perhaps. If it weren't for sites like ebay I doubt these would be so easy to sell for such high prices. There seems to always be someone out there willing to pay, look at the days where people would pay high prices for Beanie Babies.

The worry I would have about modern day bullion collectibles (that is paying way over spot) is what might happen in the future. Sure, if silver keeps going up there will always be silver value, but the collector value could vaporize.

There are many different types of numismatic coins (not bullion but real US coins) that were worth more in the somewhat recent past than they are now (some rare silver dollars were worth much more in the late 80s than they are now for some reason). Seems to go against logic that collectible coins would go down in value as opposed to up as time goes on but it happens, especially when the price far exceeds the metal content value.

My niche area is old US gold so that is all I feel comfortable with, but there seems to be many areas where an ebay seller can clean up if he/she can get the items for a decent price then resell them to some collector that will pay whatever it takes to get them. I wish I was not afraid to try selling on ebay because I know I could do well.

Jim

As usual, I agree with you. As I was saying in another thread, there is a big push by a lot of "investment" companies to try and sell MS-63 graded Gold Double Eagles as investments. One company that I know of is marketing these things as "great deals" at about $2400. Yet I can buy AU grade coins of the same years for less than $1700.

MTS,

$2300 for an MS 63 is way high, I have never seen them cost that much over spot. You can get an MS65 for that and have money left over probably. I follow the premiums very closely on these, and there are times when they fall quickly relative to gold, that is when I buy. I have done best with raw, AU (uncleaned) coins--I like the Liberty coins too. I shop around to many places, and sometimes the dealer will actually undergrade what they think the coin is worth and I do well on those. There is one coin dealer I have bought from that honestly doesn't know how to tell a cleaned coin from an original finish at times. He thinks it is cleaned when it is not, thus sells it for less than it is worth.

My MS 64 St. Gaudens that I bought in the past year will be in the money gold value wise if gold rises just a little bit, and that is not even factoring in the premiums I could get if I sold.

I think if/when gold takes off to a much higher level, coin promoters will start selling these and advertising them as confiscation proof, which may or may not be true. In any event, if the premiums go way up like they did over a year ago, I will do well with them. There have been times when the coins were worth almost double gold value in MS64 for the Gaudens.

There are many very wealthy people who aren't really into gold yet, when they do they will want the best or what is perceived to be the best, just like they do with art, homes, autos, etc. Personally, I like the AU coins just as much as my MS64 and 65 ones, and I will keep those AUs and not sell them but the graded ones will be sold.

Jim

 

[jim4silver]

How come you say if it wasn't for sites like ebay there wouldn't be a market. The whole thing is that there are sites like ebay.(i don't think they are going anywhere) Sites like these make it everything an even playing field and create there own market.

I also agree paying $400 bucks a coin is crazy but I got mine under spot.

You misquoted me and/or didn't understand my post. I said they would not be as easy to sell if it weren't for ebay, not that there would be no market. Try going to your local coin store and get several hundred over spot for something like that. Even if you do get that much, the coin dealer will get even more when they resell it. Thus you are always get less than full value because the dealer has to resell it to make his/her profit.

Ebay cuts out the middle man (the coin dealer), so the seller is just dealing with some sucker (just kidding-I mean buyer) who wants to pay out the a$$ for an item--no matter what said item is. I was not knocking ebay but saying it actually helps a seller get the most for his/her item, at least from what I have read and heard, since I don't buy or sell on ebay I don't personally know.

Jim

 

[mts]

MTS,

$2300 for an MS 63 is way high, I have never seen them cost that much over spot. You can get an MS65 for that and have money left over probably. I follow the premiums very closely on these, and there are times when they fall quickly relative to gold, that is when I buy. I have done best with raw, AU (uncleaned) coins--I like the Liberty coins too. I shop around to many places, and sometimes the dealer will actually undergrade what they think the coin is worth and I do well on those. There is one coin dealer I have bought from that honestly doesn't know how to tell a cleaned coin from an original finish at times. He thinks it is cleaned when it is not, thus sells it for less than it is worth.

My MS 64 St. Gaudens that I bought in the past year will be in the money gold value wise if gold rises just a little bit, and that is not even factoring in the premiums I could get if I sold.

I think if/when gold takes off to a much higher level, coin promoters will start selling these and advertising them as confiscation proof, which may or may not be true. In any event, if the premiums go way up like they did over a year ago, I will do well with them. There have been times when the coins were worth almost double gold value in MS64 for the Gaudens.

There are many very wealthy people who aren't really into gold yet, when they do they will want the best or what is perceived to be the best, just like they do with art, homes, autos, etc. Personally, I like the AU coins just as much as my MS64 and 65 ones, and I will keep those AUs and not sell them but the graded ones will be sold.

Jim

I agree. AU, uncleaned and ungraded are what I'm looking at buying in addition to plain bullion. The premium is fairly low and you still get a great looking coin with room to go up in value. And if you think $2300 is high for an MS63, how about $2400 for the same coin?

The million dollar question is... will gold continue to go up or is it on the way back down in the short term? You steered me in the right direction last year when it came to silver. Now how good is your instinct on gold? I'm not as convinced about gold this year as I was about silver last year. Perhaps I should ask jim4gold to see what he thinks.

 

[grampa]

can u guys point me in the right direction on which old gold to buy? ie: examples?

thanks!

 

[grampa]

fyi.. i just ordered an ATB set today for $937 .. limit 1 and only via a wire

 

[mts]

fyi.. i just ordered an ATB set today for $937 .. limit 1 and only via a wire

That's a good deal. Are you willing to tell us where you got it from?

 

[byrne3]

How come you say if it wasn't for sites like ebay there wouldn't be a market. The whole thing is that there are sites like ebay.(i don't think they are going anywhere) Sites like these make it everything an even playing field and create there own market.

I also agree paying $400 bucks a coin is crazy but I got mine under spot.

You misquoted me and/or didn't understand my post. I said they would not be as easy to sell if it weren't for ebay, not that there would be no market. Try going to your local coin store and get several hundred over spot for something like that. Even if you do get that much, the coin dealer will get even more when they resell it. Thus you are always get less than full value because the dealer has to resell it to make his/her profit.

Ebay cuts out the middle man (the coin dealer), so the seller is just dealing with some sucker (just kidding-I mean buyer) who wants to pay out the a$$ for an item--no matter what said item is. I was not knocking ebay but saying it actually helps a seller get the most for his/her item, at least from what I have read and heard, since I don't buy or sell on ebay I don't personally know.

Jim

So there are a few things you don't understand about ebay. First there are a lot of fees on ebay and they are going up this Tuesday (4/19/11).. I have sold a few MS 65 St. Gaudens on ebay and the final value fees were $50. It is 9% of the value and it is capped at $50. Starting Tuesday the cap is going to go up to $100. That means for high value coins, such as double eagles in the $1500 or even $2000+ range, the fees are going to double and be $100. The paypal fees are in addition to that and are 2.9% which is another $60+ dollars or so.. So yes you will get a lot more money, but you will not receive all of it..

The other thing, as a buyer there are reward programs and coupons, which drives the price way up.. Just last week (or maybe 2 weeks ago) there was a groupon deal on ebay. You get a $15 ebay gift card for just $7.. So you can only expect the people who have these laying around would be willing to overpay a little bit for something they really want. Here is the link. Look at how many sold. It's no different than the federal reserve printing new money..
http://www.groupon.com/deals/ebay

Ebay bucks is a rewards program by ebay which gives back 2% of every purchase... There are sites like auctionshadow, mrrebates, microsoft bing, etc. which also pay another reward on top of that. Sometimes as much as 9%..

Another thing is periodically ebay awards coupons to certain ebay members.. For example, last thanksgiving I got a coupon from ebay for 10% off my purchase for a max savings of $100. Well I for sure wanted to take advantage of this and I bought a PCGS MS65 St. Gaudens with that coupon. The winning bid price was $2180.. After all my rewards, coupons, ebay bucks, 1% credit card rewards, etc... I paid around $2000 net..
About a month later I re-listed the coin for $2175 and free shipping ($5 less than my winning bid). Another ebayer asked if I could lower my price to $2150. I really didn't want to lower it, but he said he could pay by paypal e-check (my payal fees would only be $5; it's difficult to get anyone to pay with these so I agreed). I then ended the auction early to sell to him. It turned out even though I sold the coin for $30 less than my winning bid price, I actually made a $90 profit on the whole ordeal...

Just my thoughts on ebays price being inflated... There are some idiots out there, but sometimes there are legitimate reasons for overpaying on ebay..