50 Tone Target Setting

[flgliderpilot]

My ground is mild like fluffy top soil so tracking GB is not recommended . I have tried 0 GB and manual GB .Trying to find a clean area to GB on is difficult . I thought maybe I am not passing over any deeper targets ? I dug a mason jar lid at a foot deep yesterday through frozen ground .Fun fun .I put a quarter at seven inches and the tone and tdi is all over the place . I go over many targets that sound like the quarter so how much am I missing ?

After I dial the equinox in my next test will be getting permission on fresh ground starting with the equinox and then going back over the area with the deus to see what was missed . I have a permission pounded by the deus 10k gold ring many IHC barber dimes and quarters buffs and more .I ran out of signals and half of it is still frozen but the other half is not and I took the equinox over it with no luck yet , of course the depth issue so who knows .

I've seen this is the quarter is on edge. The machine will not go deep on it, and it's all over the place.

I wonder if the frozen ground is giving you a hard time. Try cranking UP the ground balance an see what happens. Also I missed if you are using a 600 or 800.. if it's an 800 try turning up the vol in the headphones a bit more while turning sensitivity down a little. Do noise cancel and ground balance with sensitivity turned down to about 18. Do noise cancel with coil in the air.

Trying to think of anything that could help here.

 

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[sgoss66]

Guys,

I am really struggling to understand all this! McKinney -- your Equinox won't detect...as in not at all...a 7" deep, long-buried quarter? Your E-Trac struggles with a 5" deep quarter? This makes NO SENSE. An E-Trac could hit a 5" quarter in Culpeper dirt, for crying out loud!

Something is not right here. I'd love to be able to somehow help all of you out who are struggling to detect these coins, but not sure how. I'm especially puzzled by 1942merc with the "mild, fluffy soil" and struggling to hit 6" coins with the Equinox. This is just not right...something is going on, and I would love to see this with my own eyes. With no more info to go on, I would be forced to wonder if these detectors are "faulty," but I'd exhaust every other option first. A six-inch coin -- unless the soil is extreme, or EMI is extreme, or unless there was a piece of iron masking the coin, or unless it's entirely on edge or otherwise "crippled" in some way -- should be a CINCH, a "no-brainer." My Equinox hits 6" coins as easily as it hits 1" coins...I am just completely flummoxed here.

IF you have a detector that will hit coins deeper, then I'd first suggest that the next time you hit what you suspect is a deep coin, DON'T DIG IT, but MARK it. And then, grab the Equinox and work around the coin with it, and see what happens. I promise you, the Equinox SHOULD be seeing any coin that any other machine can locate, very close to "equally as well," if not a bit better. If you told me your "machine of choice" can see a coin 1/2" deeper than the Equinox, OK -- maybe. But, it should be CLOSE, at the VERY least. In my dirt, it's actually a bit DEEPER than Minelab FBS (Explorer/E-Trac/CTX). I promise you that IF you TRULY "cannot detect" 6-inch coins, something is not right...ESPECIALLY if you have other machines that CAN...

Steve

 

[HighVDI]

42 merc.....running that low of a recovery speed can actually hurt depth despite what the basic rule of thumb is. I'd try 6 or 7 and see what you get.

 

[sgoss66]

AARC -- you are even in Florida dirt -- which is NOTORIOUSLY mild in most places. This is really strange.

Try this, gents...

Turn on the machine. Noise cancel. Then, set the coil on the ground, and keeping the machine from moving at all, adjust sensitivity downward, as needed, until the machine becomes stable. No chatter AT ALL. NOW, try to hit those 5-7" coins.

Same thing in the air test (someone said the machine struggled to hit a 7" quarter in an air test). Get away from EMI as best as you can. Then, noise cancel. Then, run sensitivity down until the machine is stable. THEN air test the quarter. 10" should be EASY. If it is not, something is wrong...

Steve

 

[flgliderpilot]

Need to try that dime at a different location... there might be something throwing off the machine... sewer pipe, burried junk, crate of nazi gold, etc.

 

[flgliderpilot]

I detected yesterday, gridding a section of beach. I alternated between my own 3 tone mode, and 50 tone mode on each leg of the grid.

What I found was that in 3 tone mode a junk target would break a little... easy to hear in a single tone. In 50 tone mode, it would waver a little, but it also wavers on all targets a you approach the target at each end of the swing so it's not easy to identify.

I found in either mode I could easily (for known type of junk) recognize what was a pull tab, a cap, or foil before digging. BUT, I found that the 50 tone mode took me 3 times longer to do that. It took many more swings of varying length to narrow down the actual signal. I also found that in pocket spills, it was very difficult to determine what I was looking at in 50 tone mode. The tones are just going everywhere and target separation (audibly) was very difficult.

In 3 tone mode, I could separate the coins audibly easier and spot the quarter, and then the dime in the spill... and recognize it as a pocket spill.

Also, in 50 tone mode a penny was not as obvious as it is in my 3 tone mode, where the tone break is at 21. The penny bounces between 20 and 21 and it's teetering on mid-high tone (like an at pro). Very easy to recognize a penny. In 50 tone mode, I would get a mid-ish tone, but I could NOT identify it as a penny without looking at the display.

This is only beach hunting. I haven't tried water hunting in 50 tone, or relic hunting.

I think I just need more time on the mode so my brain can learn the pitches. Would probably have been easier to grasp if I was an Excal user prior.

I also did not notice any difference in depth. Both when deep at least 10".

 

[Bharpring]

I've seen this is the quarter is on edge. The machine will not go deep on it, and it's all over the place.

I wonder if the frozen ground is giving you a hard time. Try cranking UP the ground balance an see what happens. Also I missed if you are using a 600 or 800.. if it's an 800 try turning up the vol in the headphones a bit more while turning sensitivity down a little. Do noise cancel and ground balance with sensitivity turned down to about 18. Do noise cancel with coil in the air.

Trying to think of anything that could help here.

I was going to say the same thing. I initially was frustrated with the lack of depth on my 800. Then I noticed that the headphones have their own volume. Crank it up as well as the vol on the detector.

 

[parkgt]

I was going to say the same thing. I initially was frustrated with the lack of depth on my 800. Then I noticed that the headphones have their own volume. Crank it up as well as the vol on the detector.

Since most user coming from a Deus like you are reporting little modulation in tones, how would a increase in volume (assuming it was adequate to begin with) improve depth? Does the NOX whisper on deep - in 50 tones more than 5?

 

[Bharpring]

Since most user coming from a Deus like you are report little modulation in tones, how would a increase in volume (assuming it was adequate to begin with) improve depth? Does the NOX whisper on deep - in 50 tones more than 5?

For me all of the signals on the nox sounded faint initially. I wasn’t getting signals for deep targets. I adjusted the volume on the headphones and I could hear the 8” quarters. The issue with modulation was that I couldn’t tell the difference between the 2” quarter and the 8” quarter. I’m still have a little trouble with that one.

 

[Roger Mn.]

I'm having the same problem. I'm guessing it's just me not understanding the machine yet but my 800 struggles to find a quarter at 7 inches in an air test. I'm super frustrated with that and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. All that said, I have very little time in the field with it so far so hopefully it's just me...not the detector.

I tested the Equinox 800 and the 600 air test with a quarter and i get a good sound at 12 inches and less sound at 14 inches.
The thing is you have to move the quarter fast and if you slow down to much you get less than 12 or nothing if to slow.

 

[Normsel]

I have hit quarters at 12" and dimes at 10". I really don't like to dig over 6" but a solid signal will make me go deep. I do find many deep signal that are loud and clear are cans.

 

[flgliderpilot]

The volume variation with the equinox is not linear as far I as I can tell, it's loud until it's near the edge of depth range, and the drops quickly. This is actually how I'd prefer it.

Hey one thing I noticed today is that the equinox does not false when you bump the ground! I was literally sliding my coil back and forth across the wet sand looking for max depth faint targets and it never even blipped. Of course it was also dead quiet because it was sanded in, but LOVE IT.

 

[vferrari]

Park 2 / 0 GB or GB either one / 5 tone /24 sens / recov 2 and I can not hit a quarter deeper than six inches and is iffy at six inches . Mild ground . 5 tone is the best for me so far . Really frustrating on the depth here . My deus hits at ten inches no problem .

If you want to hit harder on silver, you might want to try one of the "1" modes. The "2" modes are biased to higher frequencies which means they hit harder on mid-conductors at depth. The "1" modes (Park 1, Field 1) are biased towards lower frequencies which means they hit high conductors harder at depth. I think Park 1 also lowers recovery speed slightly vs. the defaults on the "2" modes which will also improve depth as long as it does not result in increased ground noise, which might happen as you have recovery set all the way down to 2 (the idea is to maximize signal to noise ratio, so upping recovery speed may actually surprise you with "more" depth because the noise floor is lowered - it is a balancing act and YMMV). Some excerpts from the manual:

Park 1 Multi-IQ processes a lower frequency weighting of the
multi-frequency signal, as well as using algorithms that maximise
ground balancing for soil, to achieve the best signal to noise ratio.
Hence Park 1 is most suited for general detecting and coin hunting.

Park 2 is better suited for smaller targets and greater
trash densities. It will detect a wider range of targets
including low conductors (or higher frequency) targets, e.g. fine
jewellery. All non-ferrous targets are accepted by default. Recovery
Speed is also increased to clearly identify good targets masked by
iron trash.

Regarding Recovery Speed: A higher Recovery Speed, for the same swing rate, will help to
reject ground noise, but also decrease detection depth. A lower
Recovery Speed, for the same swing rate, will increase detection
depth, but may increase noise.

Also you may be overdriving the detector by running sensitivity so high. Again, this is more about finding the signal-to-noise ratio sweet spot than driving this hot detector to the edge on signal gain. By raising the noise floor you may be actually be hurting depth capability. Experiment with different settings to see if you can find the right combo to max detection depth. It is not all about just cranking sens and lowering recovery speed.

 

[vferrari]

The volume variation with the equinox is not linear as far I as I can tell, it's loud until it's near the edge of depth range, and the drops quickly. This is actually how I'd prefer it.

Hey one thing I noticed today is that the equinox does not false when you bump the ground! I was literally sliding my coil back and forth across the wet sand looking for max depth faint targets and it never even blipped. Of course it was also dead quiet because it was sanded in, but LOVE IT.

Oh, it will bump false if you have a situation where the ground phase balance reading is set to a high number (typically above 50). I found this out in highly mineralized soil conditions where I was getting bump falsing when hitting corn stalk stubble. You can force this to happen by rasing your GB number manually to a high number. Thought I had a bad coil or coil connection until I realized that it only did it in the mode with the high GB number and the other modes which still had GB at the 0 default did not bump false. That mode ceased bump falsing when I was in an area where I could lower the GB phase setting again to below 50.

 

[Jason in Enid]

You must have gotten one of the good ones.

I can hit 8 inch dimes, I think something must be wrong if someone is struggling at 6.

 

[vferrari]

I can hit 8 inch dimes, I think something must be wrong if someone is struggling at 6.

It appears that people are brute force cranking down recovery speed and cranking up sensitivity to gain depth. This machine runs hot and it takes a little finesse to increase signal to noise ratio (NOT just the signal) which means: 1) You need to be in the right mode - if you want max depth on silvers and other high conductors, go with Park 1 or Field 1 which are biased to the lower weighted frequencies (i.e., higher conductors), 2) Get a sat Noise Cancel and GB (don't be afraid to use tracking if you have soil with mineralization that tracking can "grab" onto, otherwise go with auto or manual GB), 3) Don't try to maximize depth simply by upping gain/sensitivity because you will also be upping the noise floor. Keep it around 20, push it up maybe 2 points max and don't be afraid to push it down a couple of points if you are getting falsing - again, the goal is to get the machine to run quiet. 3) Don't just crank down on recovery speed to maximize depth, you may end up increasing ground noise on your swings and are then just lowering signal to noise ratio again because you are increasing the noise floor. 4) WHEN IN DOUBT, JUST STICK WITH (OR DON'T STRAY FAR FROM) THE MODE SETTING DEFAULTS - they work pretty well and have been established through extensive field testing.

 

[jeg208]

4) WHEN IN DOUBT, JUST STICK WITH (OR DON'T STRAY FAR FROM) THE MODE SETTING DEFAULTS - they work pretty well and have been established through extensive field testing.

I have been watching the same 5 or so YouTubers over the past month or two, and this can't be over stated. Over time, they have reverted all of their "custom" presets to or very near factory defaults (other than tonal personalization). It seems when folks spend more time on the machine, they realize very little needs adjusted for hunting as the nox comes with excellent presets!

 

[HighVDI]

If you want to hit harder on silver, you might want to try one of the "1" modes. The "2" modes are biased to higher frequencies which means they hit harder on mid-conductors at depth. The "1" modes (Park 1, Field 1) are biased towards lower frequencies which means they hit high conductors harder at depth. I think Park 1 also lowers recovery speed slightly vs. the defaults on the "2" modes which will also improve depth as long as it does not result in increased ground noise, which might happen as you have recovery set all the way down to 2 (the idea is to maximize signal to noise ratio, so upping recovery speed may actually surprise you with "more" depth because the noise floor is lowered - it is a balancing act and YMMV). Some excerpts from the manual:

Park 1 Multi-IQ processes a lower frequency weighting of the
multi-frequency signal, as well as using algorithms that maximise
ground balancing for soil, to achieve the best signal to noise ratio.
Hence Park 1 is most suited for general detecting and coin hunting.

Park 2 is better suited for smaller targets and greater
trash densities. It will detect a wider range of targets
including low conductors (or higher frequency) targets, e.g. fine
jewellery. All non-ferrous targets are accepted by default. Recovery
Speed is also increased to clearly identify good targets masked by
iron trash.

Regarding Recovery Speed: A higher Recovery Speed, for the same swing rate, will help to
reject ground noise, but also decrease detection depth. A lower
Recovery Speed, for the same swing rate, will increase detection
depth, but may increase noise.

Also you may be overdriving the detector by running sensitivity so high. Again, this is more about finding the signal-to-noise ratio sweet spot than driving this hot detector to the edge on signal gain. By raising the noise floor you may be actually be hurting depth capability. Experiment with different settings to see if you can find the right combo to max detection depth. It is not all about just cranking sens and lowering recovery speed.

Great info! Never knew the 1 was more biased to higher conductors and 2 was the other way around. I did read in the manual that 2 has better separation.

This machine has no problem going deep. I got proof on a live dig 8" silver Barber dime. ID was bouncing in the upper 20's to mid 30' and the faint but solid tone had me guessing deep silver. Also.....this was in park 2 so I'm thinking 1 would have hit even a little harder! I'm enjoying the different settings and options with the 800. At first, I'll admit, I was a little intimidated.

 

[HighVDI]

Vferrari, I was also curious on your thoughts about iron bias settings.......I can't seem to find the sweet spot. Been hovering at the 3 setting.

 

[vferrari]

Vferrari, I was also curious on your thoughts about iron bias settings.......I can't seem to find the sweet spot. Been hovering at the 3 setting.

This one has been trickier for me also. There is no one answer because set too high in thick iron you will def miss a masked non-ferrous target and too low, scattered iron falsing gets tedious.

I tend to run it at zero in thick iron and bump it up to between 3 and 6 in scattered iron if I can't stand the falsing. If I am using any setting other than zero iron bias, to enable target interrogation or to quickly turn iron bias off, I have whatever search profile I am using duplicated in the User Profile slot with 0 bias set, that way I can quickly shift between the two on an iffy target. If I get a suspect false high tone (usually accompanied by an iron "shadow tone" if I press the all metal horseshoe button) and if the high tone gets more pronounced with Iron Bias at 0, it is most likely to be an iron false.

Now that I am more tuned into the tone "purity", I am tending to leave iron bias at 0 and search in 50 tones, all metal. The iron falses become pretty evident when they show up with an accompanying iron tone and they sound delayed, hollow, and/or broken.