9 years and still stumped

[walrus]

I've had this piece for about nine years now. I found It in Maine using a Tech T2.
I posted it here when I found it, and had some good suggestions, but no positive ID. I am reposting hoping a fresh set of eyes might finally put it to rest.
It may be just a coincidence, but I also found a Maine Militia belt plate dating around 1820ish within 100 yards of where I found this piece. I will share a pic of that as well.

 

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[walrus]

Here is the Maine Militia belt plate

 

[DCMatt]

Those are great finds. Sadly, all I can do is speculate as I have never seen anything like the British piece.

I believe British officers had some latitude in having items custom made for their uniforms. That's what this looks like to me, a "one off" piece - which means we won't find a match to give it a 100% ID.

The size, shape, and construction make me think it's part of a hat badge.

The condition and patina make me think it's a reenactor item. Maybe from the bicentennial? I admit I don't have a lot of Rev War reenacting knowledge...

What is the red material on the piece?

 

[walrus]

Those are great finds. Sadly, all I can do is speculate as I have never seen anything like the British piece.

I believe British officers had some latitude in having items custom made for their uniforms. That's what this looks like to me, a "one off" piece - which means we won't find a match to give it a 100% ID.

The size, shape, and construction make me think it's part of a hat badge.

The condition and patina make me think it's a reenactor item. Maybe from the bicentennial? I admit I don't have a lot of Rev War reenacting knowledge...

What is the red material on the piece?

I think its leather, or maybe a artificial leather. It's very brittle at this point.
It has been a long time, and I haven't used a T2 for a number of years, but it was toning like a aluminum can. I cant remember the target ID numbers.
Looks like maybe copper with plating.

 

[DCMatt]

I think its leather, or maybe a artificial leather. It's very brittle at this point.

That's what I thought. It looks like some kind of vinyl or fake leather. That's why I thought "reenactor".

I've been doing Civil War reenacting for a while. Way back in the hobby, guys used to wear stuff that was not correct because they couldn't get (or afford) period correct devices and accouterments.

There was some pretty hokey looking stuff in camp... It's different today with so much research material and reproduction items available at your fingertips.

Any chance there was a Rev War reenactment or encampment on the property?

 

[walrus]

That's what I thought. It looks like some kind of vinyl or fake leather. That's why I thought "reenactor".

I've been doing Civil War reenacting for a while. Way back in the hobby, guys used to wear stuff that was not correct because they couldn't get (or afford) period correct devices and accouterments.

There was some pretty hokey looking stuff in camp... It's different today with so much research material and reproduction items available at your fingertips.

Any chance there was a Rev War reenactment or encampment on the property?

It was found on a river bank in a wooded area which was on my Grandmothers property. There were no trees there until the 1930s. Now it is all woods. I'm not aware of any reenactments in the area, but since it was by the river maybe it could have washed down from somewhere else.
The house was built in 1803. My Grandmother told me when her parents purchased the home it was packed with antiques including Civil War and Revolutionary uniforms. I also found a US buckle and GAR medal on the property. As for the Civil war items my guess was that maybe the previous owners kids took them from the attic and played soldier and lost them on the propert. I have photos of the previous owners posing in the Revolutionary uniforms, so it looked like it wasnt uncommon for them to play around with them.
The previous family owned the home from 1803 until my Great Grandfather purchased it in 1939.

 

[DCMatt]

I just read the posts from 2011. If Crusader couldn't ID it, I doubt anyone on this forum can. He is the guy I was going to suggest.

 

[DCMatt]

I'd love to see a few of those photos.

 

[walrus]

I'd love to see a few of those photos.

Just did a quick search through some old photos and found this one.

 

[jambone]

Maybe they were experimenting with a new rank... Major Major.

 

[ARC]

I did a few cursory checks and it will at time being remain a mystery item.

From sash hardware's to hair barrettes... nada on my end.

Will come back round to it.

 

[RW]

Looks like part of an old product display to me, vinyl over sheet metal. Double Crown, Twin Crown... who knows.

 

[Retired Sarge]

One thing is to narrow the time period the Crown Insignia is from. Can find similar, but not identical, crowns used by the British and her colonies.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how this item would attach to a hat, uniform, and or equipment items and I'm drawing a blank there. Unless it was meant to be stitched around the fingers on either side of the item.

 

[walrus]

I'm trying to wrap my head around how this item would attach to a hat, uniform, and or equipment items and I'm drawing a blank there. Unless it was meant to be stitched around the fingers on either side of the item.[/QUOTE]

That has always been a head scratcher for me as well. I see no attachment points. I reached out to a local museum at one point, and the curators guess was that it might be a ladies buckle celebrating Queen Victoria's diamond jubilee, but I was never able to nail that lead down, and I just dont see how it would attach as a buckle. I agree with most theories that it's a hat badge, but again see no way to attach it.

 

[walrus]

Looks like part of an old product display to me, vinyl over sheet metal. Double Crown, Twin Crown... who knows.

When I first dug it my initial thought was that it was a badge off of an old tractor or something.

 

[MadTom]

Old but not that old. Crowns look French. Fleur de Lis is a giveaway. Dont think it’s old judging by the tangs holding the crowns on. That Maine plate is killer though.

 

[Red-Coat]

The crown type is the British St Edward's crown, used for military regalia until Victoria's death in 1901 (it does have fleur-de-lys on it).

For me, the workmanship for the crowns is far better than the workmanship for the plate, suggesting that the plate is amateur work and was married up to two commercially made official crown 'badges' in a form that is non-original. I can't imagine that a proper military plate of any kind would have two crowns on it like that. Two crowns worn as uniform badges of rank, yes... but not two together on a plate like that.

 

[Retired Sarge]

The crown type is the British St Edward's crown, used for military regalia until Victoria's death in 1901 (it does have fleur-de-lys on it).

For me, the workmanship for the crowns is far better than the workmanship for the plate, suggesting that the plate is amateur work and was married up to two commercially made official crown 'badges' in a form that is non-original. I can't imagine that a proper military plate of any kind would have two crowns on it like that. Two crowns worn as uniform badges of rank, yes... but not two together on a plate like that.

That's what I'm leaning towards. Just can't figure out what it was meant to be used for or meant to represent.

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

I think its leather, or maybe a artificial leather. It's very brittle at this point.
It has been a long time, and I haven't used a T2 for a number of years, but it was toning like a aluminum can. I cant remember the target ID numbers.
Looks like maybe copper with plating.

That particular Crown insignia looks like the work of silversmith Lewis Fueter. He designed and made the sword belt plates for the American Loyalist Army of the Kings American Regiment, The Royal Provincial Corps, during the American Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Fueter

To me, the 'leather' fabric on your artifact closely resembles the same found on some of their headgear. Could possibly be a belt plate, or a helmet badge.

 

[walrus]

There was another suggestion a while back that it could be a Indian trade piece.
Looks like everyone agrees that since it is most likely a personally made item that it will most likely remain a mystery. However, I cant thank everyone enough for taking a look and offering your input.