A Neville Cluster: The Neville Variant -(MA)

MAMucker

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I’ve not posted this one before. It was found in 2010 on top of a waste pile of loam and gravels staged beside a cranberry bog. It could have been laying there for 2 centuries. It has some staining on it, indicating that it may have been scooped out of the feeder brook reconstructed by the original farmers to form the bog.
ImageUploadedByTreasureNet.com1616868851.028134.jpg
ImageUploadedByTreasureNet.com1616868865.077771.jpg

My mind went to this one following a post from NC showing a series of Morrow Mountain Type II points that are very similar in design and archeological period to our Stark Points (also of the Neville Cluster) here in New England.
This Neville Variant, had it been found in the coastal states SOUTH of New England, would have been immediately identified as a Morrow Mountain (which is dated in the Middle Archaic Period). This point (The Neville Variant) is also dated (in New England) in the MIDDLE Archaic Period.
Here’s another look at the rounded stem:
ImageUploadedByTreasureNet.com1616868914.059297.jpg
 
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OntarioArch

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MA - I would be interested in your take on these points found in Cayuga County, NY. I think they must be within the Neville complex like your OP, and I'll give you my best guess on a couple ....

First, I would say these 3 are Starks: stubby pointed stems from slight shoulders.
starks 3.jpg

And this beauty I think might be a Koens-Crispin because of its size and broad proportions, but I am open to other opinions, for sure. Lithic type I do not know at all.
Koens.jpg

Lastly, this long, white mystery point: the shoulders and stem make me believe it is a Neville of some sort. But certainly is long...too long for a Neville? The back side dark discoloration appears to be some sort of imperfection....maybe the cortex of the original hunk of rock? Its overall darkened discoloration makes me think it spent time in a fire. Soap and water scrubbing does not remove any darken material. I would sure like opinions on this one! Thanks!
Nevile long white.jpg
neville 2.jpg
 
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MAMucker

MAMucker

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MA - I would be interested in your take on these points found in Cayuga County, NY. I think they must be within the Neville complex like your OP, and I'll give you my best guess on a couple ....

First, I would say these 3 are Starks: stubby pointed stems from slight shoulders.
View attachment 1913522

Hello OntarioArch,

I appreciate the request and I’ll do my best. But I hope you’ll accept a collective approach. Those are interesting artifacts and they deserve more experienced opinions. I can’t give you any info regarding that fact that you found them in Cayuga County, NY. I hope someone else can.

While looking at those and checking my references, a couple thoughts occurred to me.
The length of blade vs. the length of base and the appearance of notching stands out. Although Boudreau notes that, “major variations occur in the length of the stem”, in the Stark type. I wouldn’t completely rule out Popular Island. Unfortunately, I can’t make out the increments on the ruler you put in the photo (under them). But I’m guessing they are small points.
To avoid making identification too complicated, I’ll just suggest that you may have a group of points that better fit the Rossville Projectile Point Type. If this is the case, the Archeological Period would place them in the Mid-Late Woodland Period 2000 to 1000 YBP. and much later than the Neville Complex.

Forgive my TMI approach to identification. Hopefully, Charlie can give you a firmer opinion on these. I’ll take a stab at the others separately.

Thanks for the invite
 

Garscale

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Interesting thread. If you look at my gary point thread, you can pick out every variant shown here. Im thinking the style was pretty universal to late archaic cultures all over north america.
 

Edgychris1

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Here are some Neville and Variant pictures. The serrated Neville my favorite heartbreaker. Still have my eyes out for serrated stark.

Those are excellent finds above. I find only a handful of larger version of Nevilles.

I do have this one Neville made of quartzite. It is full and beautiful. However, the base looks like early rare type mixed with Neville. I will upload that another thread to get any input.

I love Nevilles. Thanks for this Thread Mamucker!
 

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MAMucker

MAMucker

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Better pic of my 'Stark' but I like your 'Rossville' better!

View attachment 1913690

Oops. Now that I’m seeing how wide these are, I think (at least on 2 & 3) we can eliminate Rossville. These are worked down from either a medium or larger Projectile Point Type. Because of the location of the find (Syracuse/Buffalo), I can only make suggestions from some of the following:
Virginsville (Mid Archaic)
Stark (Mid to Late Archaic) Check for ground stem edges.
Schuylkill (Late Archaic) : I like this ID best
Poplar Island (Mid Archaic)
Morrow Mountain II (Mid Archaic)

As Garscale and HP pointed out. This basal/stem/point design can be found in the Archaic record all over North America. It may be safe to say that each region had its own group or cluster with local signature traits.
 

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