A question of ethics - old abandoned graveyards

[DeepseekerADS]

I'm aware of a long abandoned graveyard, dating probably back to the early 1800's. There are as many as 50 grave sites featuring only ground stones as markers. Many of these are probably relatives of my family.

As a person of faith and ethics, I'm not a grave robber.

But then this is so very tempting.

Any thoughts on this?

 

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[Nitric]

This is something which bothers me. Someone finds something on their property or on public land and it is commandeered by people with degrees. How many places are off limits to ordinary folks who are driven by that innate curiousity to see and know.
At any rate the earth is our cemetery.

There are also....Cases of things getting covered up Real Quick, because builders don't want to have to deal with the hoops. "HUH!!!! You found a bone!! Oh, hell cover that thing up and don't tell a soul!! They will close this whole thing down." So, the guy that found it put it in his truck and tried to do the research on his own. ......."Nobles pond" area in Ohio comes to mind. They found Ancient artifacts there. Some were studied, but there were other areas close by, that got.......Covered? The place was expanding so fast and no one wanted to stop any production. It could have been a rumor! I'm not sure! Sad that some of that history was lost in, but happens all the time I'm sure, or would bet on it.

I found some awesome rocks full of fossils working in one of the allotments around there.

 

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[nagant]

More pre euro history is lost by just that! Hillbilly prince i agree, the state or federal (authorities) will never have the funds or inclination to examine 99% percent of their jurisdiction. My states site is feeble to say the least. A handfull of coins are not going to erase any history. But if they would be reasonable they could have a lot more data but they want to Commandeer every site and restrict any owners plans indefinitely because they cant process everything. It's too expensive and that's the way it is, so get over it.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Well, it doesn't keep me up at night. If I owned land and discovered an old site I would keep my mouth shut.
I am all for acquiring knowledge and so on.
Not long ago, before I knew of this site, I heard the story of a young woman who had joined a department with her brand new degree. She was quite eager to get in the field but then came the rude awakening. Her colleagues had no interest in actual digging and such.
The game was to get grants by hook or by crook.
Wish I could remember the source.
I wonder how many here have wisely kept quiet about some great finds

 

[nagant]

Had an uncle that was a logger from north west Arkansas or S.W. Missouri, cant remember . He bought about 2oo acres of rough bluff and hollow ground in Iowa and i hunted it all the time and found a oval circle of rocks with openings at the 4 directions. Showed it to him when i was about 12, next week it was gone! I was kind of pissed at the time but age brings cold reality to such things. He worked his but off to get out of a poverty few understand and wasn't going to lose what he had.

 

[Nitric]

Well, it doesn't keep me up at night. If I owned land and discovered an old site I would keep my mouth shut.
I am all for acquiring knowledge and so on.
Not long ago, before I knew of this site, I heard the story of a young woman who had joined a department with her brand new degree. She was quite eager to get in the field but then came the rude awakening. Her colleagues had no interest in actual digging and such.
The game was to get grants by hook or by crook.
Wish I could remember the source.
I wonder how many here have wisely kept quiet about some great finds

I'm mixed on that...If I found a dino skeleton, burial mounds,If I owned the land I'd probably want it checked out. But would hope that I would have the say on how some of it was handled. If I found bars of gold? Nope! I would bury them back up and think on how I was going to handle it. haha I pretty much know what I'd do, but doubt I'll ever run into that.

 

[madmantrapper]

It wouldn't upset me any more than someone running a lawn mower or weed whacker over the grave......or even the area being dug up to be resodded. Like I mentioned before, my loved one is 6 feet under ground, not barely under the surface.

In 1700 and even in the 1900's they were barely under the surface.

 

[madmantrapper]

I think there is a law that states a grave site can not be disturbed for 200 years after the last activity.

 

[A2coins]

I wouldn't dig up the grave but around it.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

Good Lord the responses here!!! I'm reading things about "degrees" here!

What the heck?

I'll let ya'll know if I take my "degrees" up the holler to those graves! And I will take pictures of the site

 

[Sandancer]

A very emotional subject indeed. It is common sense that detecting directly over a marked grave is most assuredly not something that should be done. It would offend most people. Even though the average detectorist would not usually penetrate more than 12 inches or so, the general public would not be aware of this . However, having accidentally stepped into a very shallow decayed wooden coffin in an unmarked grave and grave yard I can generally advise against the experience.

 

[nagant]

The place in the book reference was on a bluff over looking downtown and was known as Kelly's bluff (local treasure story spot". But was also used as a cemetery from 1830's to 18??. All graves were moved to a new graveyard around 1890 or so. But rumors persisted and work on a nuns bld'ing found more graves around 1940. That bld was demolished later and the area was empty but still owned by a religious org. they sold it to a developer and said all graves were gone. Guess what, hundreds of graves were still there. the developer was stuck with the bill for the state removing the graves. It was an astronomical sum and took over 3 years! A lot of things bother me about this deal the biggest being the crew digging were like 2 state archeologists and 2-3 students. only non state guy was on the backhoe and the whole scheme was ran under full media black out. Very few bones were found, around 5%, that book is so boring The energizer bunny would stall out after the first page. This was not Egypt or native American site, poor people dying of cholera so fast they didn't even know a lot of their names. should have been more preliminary digging by more people to identify graves with remains and let the paint brush pro's have them, but remove the rest by other supervised crews. All remains not identified (hardly any were) were put in another cemetery. I never detected that place and don't think you would have got permission either. It was common knowledge that graves were there but no one involved wanted to believe it. Edit! They found more then 5% of the remains but most were severely deteriorated plus total graves were just under 1000. Biggest gripe was lack of communication with residents and the state agrees on that. Plus not all were removed so still a future problem.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

Update!!!

I still haven't gone up there, and at this point probably won't. I know some of the graves are marked with only a stone (rock) - no headstones on most.

 

[Georgivs]

Ask permission. See if there's anything you can do for maintenance while you're there. Just don't detect over the actual graves and I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

Ask permission. See if there's anything you can do for maintenance while you're there. Just don't detect over the actual graves and I see nothing wrong with it.

I don't need permission there, it's my property.

 

[releventchair]

I don't need permission there, it's my property.

Well then Deep , just don't dig too deep .

 

[RustyGold]

Best to follow your heart Deep. I would likely say a prayer for those that have gone before. Then start detecting near not on.
You sure have an awesome property. Best of luck my friend!

 

[TooManyHobbies]

You could detect it from a info / documentation point of view. Remove all trash dug as always, and any coin or ring found can be photographed and grid mapped, then reburied. It would give a timeline of visitors perhaps. You don't have to remove anything. Your curiosity will be satisfied as well as respecting the site.
While you're at it, reclaim the yard. Cut trees and mow it so it's not lost to the ages.

 

[Capncrunch]

Aside from the karma aspect, there's the sanitation threat. I was told as a small child that Cholera stays alive in the ground pretty much forever. That's why the law insists on vaults even if they're made of plywood or styrofoam. My sister and I were playing around in an abandoned cemetery adjacent to a wildwood cemetery of our ancestor's. My mom went nuts and made us get out of there right away. When folks buried the dead in shallow graves the coffin and everything rotted so a depression formed in front of the stone. Breaking a leg was a real possibility but also the threat of disease. My mom told me a story about a lady that was a friend of the family during the depression. She found a trunk in the attic of the house she rented and got out a blanket and wrapped her baby in it. The child died of cholera and it started a major outbreak. I'd like to think that's a folk tale but I know better.

Hey Reanm8er. I was concerned when I read your post, because I have actually worked (mowing and weed-eating) in cemeteries before and still have friends who own landscaping/mowing businesses. So, I did some research (not a little- since this subject seems to be unpublished by most sources- ie CDC, WHO, etc.). I finally found this, from The Center for Food Security and Public Health at Iowa State University: V. cholerae is excreted in the feces and vomitus. Viable organisms can be found in feces for up to 50 days, on glass for up to a month, on coins for a week, in soil or dust for up to 16 days and on fingertips for 1 to 2 hours. Bacteria survive well in water and may remain viable in shellfish, algae or plankton in coastal regions.
Whew! This was implied on a few other sites, based on many factors, but this one cuts to the chase! All stories or wive's tales aside, It DOES survive in soil, but only up to 16 days.
BTW- Parvovirus, which kills dogs- usually puppies- can survive in the soil for up to 1 year!

 

[A#1]

Personally, if I owned the land.....

I would provide it what maintenance it needed , and keep it somewhat maintained.

I'd research the hell out of it and the land.

I'd detect the hell out of it, and keep my finds labeled and probably displayed a bit.

I wouldn't dig past say 8 inches.

I wouldnt destroy anything.

I wouldnt have any issues of conscience over this......its just old dirt in the woods, till you start digging up bodies.

A current or older, public, formal cemetery.....I would show respect for the grounds, and others possible feelings, and I would not enter except to enjoy it if that was the case (I know of beautiful old cemeteries).

 

[burlbark]

I don't need permission there, it's my property.

Rent a backhoe and start pulling up gold teeth(if they had money) and trinkets. If its as old as you say it is and the soil is moist the bones are mostly gone. Dont bother telling anyone and enjoy yourself. If it was my early ancestors they wouldnt mind. Superstitions ruin everything..... I cant believe the state of man today.