A SAD DAY... Big Brother IS Watching...Some advice for you all.

golden silver

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Today was a sad and alarming day for me guys. I know some of you have your own stories to tell but now I Golden Silver have one of my own. Are you sitting down? Today I was interogated by NCIS. To those who do not know that is the Military's form of the FBI. I will try and make this brief but it probably won't be.

At first I did not know why I was there but then I remembered another member of this forum telling a story about getting pulled aside at his bank and asked questions by the FBI. I have to be honest I am not sure I bought the story completely until now. They began by asking me my backround information and asked me if I handle a lot of money on the regular basis. I said that I did. Then they proceded to ask how many bank accounts that I have and I was up front and honest. I told them about 10 and where I had them. They asked me why I had them and I explained this hobbie. I am sorry but In this instance I think I am allowed to break rules #1 and #2 of CRHing. It is noteworthy to mention that they were stone faced and serious durring the entire questioning. I was very nervous but stayed straight faced and tried to appear calm because I knew if I was jittery they would be suspicious of my nervousness. They asked me how much a week I went through and how much money per year have I gone through. I said that I was not completely sure but it was over $200,000. Can you believe this guys but they new exactly how much I had gone through. They said it was more like $300,000. What they did next shocked me even more. They pulled out of a black bag a box full of torn wrappers. Lo and behold it was one of my boxes I had thrown away months ago in a dumpster. They had it in their possession. They then asked me if I had been to Harper Ferry West Va. and I said yes. Believe it or not they knew all the road trips I had been on and where. They asked if I had gone to Casinos and I said that I had not. They found it very odd that I did the amount of searching that I had done and that it was actually worth my time. I said that it was worth my time and that I plan on selling some for a down payment on a house. I explained my plans only because they asked what I was doing with the coin. I repeated over and over again that it was just a hobbie and that I am a sailor working to provide for my family and do this to help me save for the future. To show the extent of how much they know...they knew that when tellers asked me what I do with the coin I change stories and don't tell the truth like so many on this website. They knew that sometimes I would dump several thousand at different banks on the same day. All of this drew attention to them.

The Climax of the story and the most shocking part I think is that they followed me to my home. They wanted to come in and see my silver stash. I would not believe it if it did not just happen to me this morning. My wife is in disbelief and my Dad says we do not live in the same country anymore. It has not been the same country for a while now.

So a word of caution If this happened to me it is just a matter of time that someone is knocking on your doors. Be prepared. Another scary thing is that they showed me a law on paper that gives them the right to confiscate property (or in other words silver) if they feel you have carried out an illegal bank transaction which according to the law means several back to back transaction exceding $10,000 or more. I can provide the exact copy of this law and the wording to anyone who wishes to know it.

So what you thought they did not know about you they most certainly do.

...They know what you buy and when and where you buy it.

...They know where you search on the internet.

... They know where you live and work and where your family is.

... They can hear your phone conversations

... They can hear conversations inside your house via your cell phone even if you are not talking on your cell phone or when it is turned off. (So take your battery out if you want privacy at all).

This was a Sad and Scary wake up call of a day for me hope it does not happen to you. In the end they said they were satisfied that I was not a terrorist and would move on but I am still in shock. What a welcome back to the Great U.S of A!! God Bless.

Golden Silver
 

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Fredness

Sr. Member
Jul 16, 2009
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golden silver said:
Wow Fredness, you sound almost exactly like one of the guys I talked to today. And before you accuse me keep in mind If I had something to hide they would have found it today. I did give them consent but under the law they described to me on paper they could confiscate my property. And for your records sir since you seem to know you stuff I did not purposefully keep my limits under 9,500. I just did the amount I could afford.

gs
PM sent - no accusations, I think you are doing things right. Just want to make sure the "civilians" know what our service members have to deal with on a daily basis.
 

AGCoinHunter

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Fredness said:
placerman said:
WOW!!!!

Did you let them into your home? I assume they would need a warrant or probably cause, and I don't think that the fact that you move that much coin would be cause for probably cause. I think you could easily prove this with your posts in this forum and possibly others.

At any rate, you didn't break any laws so there isn't really anything they can do other than harass you.


What do they think you were up to?

It is safe to assume they were either physically following you or tracing your movements through either your cell phone or some device planted on your car.


Edited to add... I guess if I just do 9500 per week I am fine then right? lol
US Military does not need a warrant as the members are subject to the UCMJ and are not afforded all the protections of the constitution. That is part of the life...
NCIS does not need a warrant to search the home as you are either living on base (US Govt Property) or you are being paid to live off base - and guess what, unless you want to repay every penny, you may want to just open your doors to them.
Does he have the right to refuse such a search? Absolutely.
Will this cause problems? Without a doubt.
As part of a security clearance "Uncle Sugar" can and does random checks on bank accounts, credit cards and spending habits. Large cash withdrawls and deposits will attract attention. Even if you are otherwise living inside your means, it appears that you are hiding something. That means you are a risk - no clearance; no clearance - no job.
Reducing your amounts to $9,500 to "fly under the radar" is "structed deposits" (Title 31 U.S.C. § 5324) - also a no-no.
Cellphone: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html
Cellphone monitoring: Title 50 U.S.C. § 1801 see: "Foreign intelligence information" (FISA) - it is real and happens WITHOUT a warrant, or due process.
[edit speelling/links]

So what is the time frame you can "deposit" 10k without raising a red flag? Is it 10k a year, month, week, day? I wouldnt say that doing 8-10k in halves a week is structured deposit, you are just depositing it as you search and it become available to deposit.
 

placerman

Sr. Member
Oct 11, 2005
286
4
Some advice...

Some good advice, some possibly bad advice, some just plain funny advice.

Next time, either burn your boxes and wrappers OR defecate (ie take a real dump) in the trash bag, wrap it tightly and carefully place it in your trashcan.

Turn off your cell phone and remove the batteries when traveling, but especially when hunting. Look in the rear fender wells and under the back bumper of your car for anything that shouldn't be there...

Continue with your hobby. To quit might make one believe you had something to hide.

Avoid areas where there is legalized gambling...

Make a point of greeting every teller you meet with the utmost kindness. Chances are they are the ones who were interviewed about you and your hobby, maybe even the one who reported your "strange activities".

Have someone wipe your computer down to the bios and reinstall the operating system.

Store your silver out of the legal reach of NCIS. Either with a parent, in the ground, or with a trusted friend.

DO NOT google "Osama Bin Laden", "money laundering how to do it", or any variation of the above.

DO NOT attempt to place a phone call outside of the US.

DO NOT make any "subversive" purchases, such a 9-11 conspiracy books, etc.

and last but not least...

Get the hell out of the military.
 

obediah

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Apr 25, 2009
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AGCoinHunter said:
Fredness said:
placerman said:
WOW!!!!

Did you let them into your home? I assume they would need a warrant or probably cause, and I don't think that the fact that you move that much coin would be cause for probably cause. I think you could easily prove this with your posts in this forum and possibly others.

At any rate, you didn't break any laws so there isn't really anything they can do other than harass you.


What do they think you were up to?

It is safe to assume they were either physically following you or tracing your movements through either your cell phone or some device planted on your car.


Edited to add... I guess if I just do 9500 per week I am fine then right? lol
US Military does not need a warrant as the members are subject to the UCMJ and are not afforded all the protections of the constitution. That is part of the life...
NCIS does not need a warrant to search the home as you are either living on base (US Govt Property) or you are being paid to live off base - and guess what, unless you want to repay every penny, you may want to just open your doors to them.
Does he have the right to refuse such a search? Absolutely.
Will this cause problems? Without a doubt.
As part of a security clearance "Uncle Sugar" can and does random checks on bank accounts, credit cards and spending habits. Large cash withdrawls and deposits will attract attention. Even if you are otherwise living inside your means, it appears that you are hiding something. That means you are a risk - no clearance; no clearance - no job.
Reducing your amounts to $9,500 to "fly under the radar" is "structed deposits" (Title 31 U.S.C. § 5324) - also a no-no.
Cellphone: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html
Cellphone monitoring: Title 50 U.S.C. § 1801 see: "Foreign intelligence information" (FISA) - it is real and happens WITHOUT a warrant, or due process.
[edit speelling/links]

So what is the time frame you can "deposit" 10k without raising a red flag? Is it 10k a year, month, week, day? I wouldnt say that doing 8-10k in halves a week is structured deposit, you are just depositing it as you search and it become available to deposit.

Why live in fear of your won Gov, why not stand up for what is right and against what is wrong- if we do not we will progressively surrender our lives to fear and tyranny? Our Constitution is supposed to protect US from this type of threat(s) and abuse.
 

placerman

Sr. Member
Oct 11, 2005
286
4
obediah said:
Why live in fear of your won Gov, why not stand up for what is right and against what is wrong- if we do not we will progressively surrender our lives to fear and tyranny? Our Constitution is supposed to protect US from this type of threat(s) and abuse.


The truth is, the US Constitution does not apply anymore.
 

obediah

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Apr 25, 2009
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placerman said:
obediah said:
Why live in fear of your won Gov, why not stand up for what is right and against what is wrong- if we do not we will progressively surrender our lives to fear and tyranny? Our Constitution is supposed to protect US from this type of threat(s) and abuse.


The truth is, the US Constitution does not apply anymore.
It would if we stood up & upheld it, emass; evil can only prevail when good men do nothing said a famous person who's name escapes me. This is what OathKeepers and Appleseed Project and others are all about coming together and STANDING as one for Constitution and truth, justice and the American way.
 

placerman

Sr. Member
Oct 11, 2005
286
4
Maybe the NCIS people were helping to investigate the Brinks robbery that happened in January 2009?

This would explain a lot. It would explain their interest in why he was near a casino, why they would go through his trash, why they would track his movements, why they would talk to tellers about him, etc...

Maybe in the Navy he has experience with acetylene torches, such as the ones used in the Brinks robbery?



I personally hope this is the case. It pains me to think that the greatest enemy to freedom is my own government.
 

ScoobaSteve

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For one, I don't believe for a moment that the FBI follows the law. I have witnessed this on several occasions.

This incident is frightening and should be taken as a good lesson. It sounds to me as a situation where a teller or bank manager informed on you. If you do a search for "InfraGard", or hit www.infragard.net and you will find that it is an organization of businessmen & women who spy for the FBI in return for privileged information.

ex. "InfraGard is an information sharing and analysis effort serving the interests and combining the knowledge base of a wide range of members. At its most basic level, InfraGard is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the private sector. InfraGard is an association of businesses, academic institutions, state and local law enforcement agencies, and other participants dedicated to sharing information and intelligence to prevent hostile acts against the United States. Infragard Chapters are geographically linked with FBI Field Office territories.
 

DigginThePast

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Dec 31, 2008
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placerman said:
It pains me to think that the greatest enemy to freedom is my own government.

This has always been the case, that is why the founding fathers drafted the Constitution.

While golden silver's case may be a little different due to his being in the military and thereby relinquishing certain rights this type of infringement happens on a daily basis.
 

Rich Hartford

Silver Member
Nov 27, 2008
4,291
5
golden silver said:
Today was a sad and alarming day for me guys. I know some of you have your own stories to tell but now I Golden Silver have one of my own. Are you sitting down? Today I was interogated by NCIS. To those who do not know that is the Military's form of the FBI. I will try and make this brief but it probably won't be.

At first I did not know why I was there but then I remembered another member of this forum telling a story about getting pulled aside at his bank and asked questions by the FBI. I have to be honest I am not sure I bought the story completely until now. They began by asking me my backround information and asked me if I handle a lot of money on the regular basis. I said that I did. Then they proceded to ask how many bank accounts that I have and I was up front and honest. I told them about 10 and where I had them. They asked me why I had them and I explained this hobbie. I am sorry but In this instance I think I am allowed to break rules #1 and #2 of CRHing. It is noteworthy to mention that they were stone faced and serious durring the entire questioning. I was very nervous but stayed straight faced and tried to appear calm because I knew if I was jittery they would be suspicious of my nervousness. They asked me how much a week I went through and how much money per year have I gone through. I said that I was not completely sure but it was over $200,000. Can you believe this guys but they new exactly how much I had gone through. They said it was more like $300,000. What they did next shocked me even more. They pulled out of a black bag a box full of torn wrappers. Lo and behold it was one of my boxes I had thrown away months ago in a dumpster. They had it in their possession. They then asked me if I had been to Harper Ferry West Va. and I said yes. Believe it or not they knew all the road trips I had been on and where. They asked if I had gone to Casinos and I said that I had not. They found it very odd that I did the amount of searching that I had done and that it was actually worth my time. I said that it was worth my time and that I plan on selling some for a down payment on a house. I explained my plans only because they asked what I was doing with the coin. I repeated over and over again that it was just a hobbie and that I am a sailor working to provide for my family and do this to help me save for the future. To show the extent of how much they know...they knew that when tellers asked me what I do with the coin I change stories and don't tell the truth like so many on this website. They knew that sometimes I would dump several thousand at different banks on the same day. All of this drew attention to them.

The Climax of the story and the most shocking part I think is that they followed me to my home. They wanted to come in and see my silver stash. I would not believe it if it did not just happen to me this morning. My wife is in disbelief and my Dad says we do not live in the same country anymore. It has not been the same country for a while now.

So a word of caution If this happened to me it is just a matter of time that someone is knocking on your doors. Be prepared. Another scary thing is that they showed me a law on paper that gives them the right to confiscate property (or in other words silver) if they feel you have carried out an illegal bank transaction which according to the law means several back to back transaction exceding $10,000 or more. I can provide the exact copy of this law and the wording to anyone who wishes to know it.

So what you thought they did not know about you they most certainly do.

...They know what you buy and when and where you buy it.

...They know where you search on the internet.

... They know where you live and work and where your family is.

... They can hear your phone conversations

... They can hear conversations inside your house via your cell phone even if you are not talking on your cell phone or when it is turned off. (So take your battery out if you want privacy at all).

This was a Sad and Scary wake up call of a day for me hope it does not happen to you. In the end they said they were satisfied that I was not a terrorist and would move on but I am still in shock. What a welcome back to the Great U.S of A!! God Bless.

Golden Silver

GS,
It appears that they have invested a lot of time investigating you, came to a dead end, and decided to question you,hoping that you would be forthcoming with something incriminating,or a lie at the very least.
I'd just go on with life as usual. Do your road trips, search boxes, etc.
If you are going to make any kind of profit selling your silver in the future, be sure to pay any taxes owed.

The great majority of individuals who work in law enforcement are very honest. They all swear an oath to uphold the Constitution and a few even know what that document is, believe it or not. So the following does not apply to them.
Unfortunately there exists a rogue element who use their position to not only abuse citizens, but to rob them too.
I'm not going to give an opinion(although I do have one} as to wheather or not the investigators in your case are honest or not. They did see your stash of silver. So it might be a good idea to put it in a secure location, outside of your house. In a safety deposit box, for example.
Once you have done this. POST IT FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE. This way nobody gets tempted to use a couple of junkie informants to burglarize your house or do a home invasion.
HH
Rich
 

Rich Hartford

Silver Member
Nov 27, 2008
4,291
5
ScoobaSteve said:
For one, I don't believe for a moment that the FBI follows the law. I have witnessed this on several occasions.

This incident is frightening and should be taken as a good lesson. It sounds to me as a situation where a teller or bank manager informed on you. If you do a search for "InfraGard", or hit www.infragard.net and you will find that it is an organization of businessmen & women who spy for the FBI in return for privileged information.

ex. "InfraGard is an information sharing and analysis effort serving the interests and combining the knowledge base of a wide range of members. At its most basic level, InfraGard is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the private sector. InfraGard is an association of businesses, academic institutions, state and local law enforcement agencies, and other participants dedicated to sharing information and intelligence to prevent hostile acts against the United States. Infragard Chapters are geographically linked with FBI Field Office territories.

Scoobs,
It might be a good idea to post your videos on how to handle violations of the Constitution. :laughing7:
Dad
 

placerman

Sr. Member
Oct 11, 2005
286
4
Rich I agree with everything you said except about storing silver or anything really of value in safe deposit boxes.

There have been literally HUNDREDS of cases where governments have pressured banks to surrender safe deposit boxes that had not been accessed in 365 days, or if the owner moved without serving the bank with a certified letter detailing the new address, etc. Several large banks and the state of California are being sued for billions of dollars for this practice right now.

In addition there is the 1933 Gold Seizure. If they did it once, they can and (maybe) will do it again.
 

Rich Hartford

Silver Member
Nov 27, 2008
4,291
5
placerman said:
Rich I agree with everything you said except about storing silver or anything really of value in safe deposit boxes.

There have been literally HUNDREDS of cases where governments have pressured banks to surrender safe deposit boxes that had not been accessed in 365 days, or if the owner moved without serving the bank with a certified letter detailing the new address, etc. Several large banks and the state of California are being sued for billions of dollars for this practice right now.

In addition there is the 1933 Gold Seizure. If they did it once, they can and (maybe) will do it again.

The idea is for GS to get the silver out of his home. Post it, so that whoever is reading his posts knows that the silver is not there.
In my opinion there is no valid reason for anyone, badge or no badge, to see his collection. Personally I'd be very suspicious,but that's me. I've seen what can happen.
As far as a confiscation goes they will get it one way or the other.
HH
Rich
 

obediah

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Yes, safety deposit boxes are NOT safe, saw story in News of hundreds that were in Calif turned over to the State after so many years with no activity being assigned to them and forfeiture to the State (which needs the money too might add).
 

sniffer

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after being in the military, I can tell you that nothing can scare me more than
the uniform code of military justice, they can lock you up with out a reason, without a lawyer
talk to your friends and tell them you're being investigated, go to your job.
basically, they can crawl up your butt and open it for the world to see and not have to tell you
why. if you believe your lawyer is going to help you, your crazy, all they have to say is national security
and all laws go out the window and you're screwed
 

Kantuckkeean

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Here's the thing though. Big Brother went dumpster diving after following you, monitoring your cell phone (I assume for tracking you), interviewed bank tellers after your visits, probably checked your internet activity, and still had to question you? They didn't know a true CRHer when they had all that dirt on him? I wonder how long you were surveilled. It sounds like it was quite a while, then, they still couldn't quite figure you out, so they thought, well, I guess we'd better go ask. LMFAO!!

Kindest regards,
Kantuck
 

sniffer

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sounds like they were trying to justify spending all that money on the investigation
when all they got for the efforts, was a mouth full of S**T. LOL
 

Tnmountains

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Wonder how much of the tax payers money they invested in this investigation. If they got in your computer you would think they would have figured it out. I think the multiple accounts was your downfall and the banks reporting. It seems that the number $10,000 always raises red flags and requires extra paper work with banks.
Glad you are with in the law.
Happy Hunting sir
 

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golden silver

golden silver

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Thanks for all your great replies. I don't know how long they were tracking me but they new stuff from when I started this hobbie over 2 years ago. They had a file over an inch thick on me. They tried to intimidate me by strategically choosing the time to reveal they had one of my half dollar boxes that I had thrown away. They methodically flipped through their file of me strategically stopping at certian pages of the file just long enough for me to see stuff that would startle me like pictures of me etc. It was a very stressful day to say the least.

Golden Silver
 

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