A SAD DAY... Big Brother IS Watching...Some advice for you all.

golden silver

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Today was a sad and alarming day for me guys. I know some of you have your own stories to tell but now I Golden Silver have one of my own. Are you sitting down? Today I was interogated by NCIS. To those who do not know that is the Military's form of the FBI. I will try and make this brief but it probably won't be.

At first I did not know why I was there but then I remembered another member of this forum telling a story about getting pulled aside at his bank and asked questions by the FBI. I have to be honest I am not sure I bought the story completely until now. They began by asking me my backround information and asked me if I handle a lot of money on the regular basis. I said that I did. Then they proceded to ask how many bank accounts that I have and I was up front and honest. I told them about 10 and where I had them. They asked me why I had them and I explained this hobbie. I am sorry but In this instance I think I am allowed to break rules #1 and #2 of CRHing. It is noteworthy to mention that they were stone faced and serious durring the entire questioning. I was very nervous but stayed straight faced and tried to appear calm because I knew if I was jittery they would be suspicious of my nervousness. They asked me how much a week I went through and how much money per year have I gone through. I said that I was not completely sure but it was over $200,000. Can you believe this guys but they new exactly how much I had gone through. They said it was more like $300,000. What they did next shocked me even more. They pulled out of a black bag a box full of torn wrappers. Lo and behold it was one of my boxes I had thrown away months ago in a dumpster. They had it in their possession. They then asked me if I had been to Harper Ferry West Va. and I said yes. Believe it or not they knew all the road trips I had been on and where. They asked if I had gone to Casinos and I said that I had not. They found it very odd that I did the amount of searching that I had done and that it was actually worth my time. I said that it was worth my time and that I plan on selling some for a down payment on a house. I explained my plans only because they asked what I was doing with the coin. I repeated over and over again that it was just a hobbie and that I am a sailor working to provide for my family and do this to help me save for the future. To show the extent of how much they know...they knew that when tellers asked me what I do with the coin I change stories and don't tell the truth like so many on this website. They knew that sometimes I would dump several thousand at different banks on the same day. All of this drew attention to them.

The Climax of the story and the most shocking part I think is that they followed me to my home. They wanted to come in and see my silver stash. I would not believe it if it did not just happen to me this morning. My wife is in disbelief and my Dad says we do not live in the same country anymore. It has not been the same country for a while now.

So a word of caution If this happened to me it is just a matter of time that someone is knocking on your doors. Be prepared. Another scary thing is that they showed me a law on paper that gives them the right to confiscate property (or in other words silver) if they feel you have carried out an illegal bank transaction which according to the law means several back to back transaction exceding $10,000 or more. I can provide the exact copy of this law and the wording to anyone who wishes to know it.

So what you thought they did not know about you they most certainly do.

...They know what you buy and when and where you buy it.

...They know where you search on the internet.

... They know where you live and work and where your family is.

... They can hear your phone conversations

... They can hear conversations inside your house via your cell phone even if you are not talking on your cell phone or when it is turned off. (So take your battery out if you want privacy at all).

This was a Sad and Scary wake up call of a day for me hope it does not happen to you. In the end they said they were satisfied that I was not a terrorist and would move on but I am still in shock. What a welcome back to the Great U.S of A!! God Bless.

Golden Silver
 

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placerman

Sr. Member
Oct 11, 2005
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WOW!!!!

Did you let them into your home? I assume they would need a warrant or probably cause, and I don't think that the fact that you move that much coin would be cause for probably cause. I think you could easily prove this with your posts in this forum and possibly others.

At any rate, you didn't break any laws so there isn't really anything they can do other than harass you.


What do they think you were up to?

It is safe to assume they were either physically following you or tracing your movements through either your cell phone or some device planted on your car.


Edited to add... I guess if I just do 9500 per week I am fine then right? lol
 

AGCoinHunter

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I really dont know what to say.... I assume you are in the military? I would think you stick out like a sore thumb with your activities and being in the military. I have no doubt big brother is watching.

My new years resolution is to keep better records of my activity so when that day come I have it documented.

Thanks for shareing your experience.

Sorry I had to re-read your post to get the full extent. You have deposited more than 10k in one instance or over multiple banks? I would think people under that amount wouldnt raise as many red flags. I will say that I now tell tellers that I collect if they ask because I see no reason to lie about it. If they dont want to service me, I move on. The other thing that poped into my head is I am sure the military is monitoring most individuals employeed by them out of the fear that some may be sympathetic to terriorist domestic and abroad. Again, sorry to hear about your experience but I think this is a wake up call for those of us who may not keep good records of our activities.
 

ronbo22

Sr. Member
Oct 31, 2008
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I think it was all a ruse by LJ to find out your secret places to find silver. ;D She has gone into deep cover to ferret out all of our silver locations so she can clean up further. :laughing7:


On a serious note, way to weather the storm and good luck.
 

placerman

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Oct 11, 2005
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Spy-Matrix-PRO-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5638363870

Is it still paranoia when they really ARE out to get you?


A few thoughts...

It is safe to say that they probably have been watching you for months.

Most likely they had to get some kind of court order in order to place a tracking device on your car, or ping your cell phone. In addition, they probably got access to your internet usage records, and know what sites you visit, as well as bank records, etc.

Also they apparently watched you enough to see you throw the box away and went dumpster diving to retrieve it.

More than likely, they expected you to post about this and are maybe even reading this thread right now.

The fact that they think you were involved in gambling makes me think they are looking for money laundering activities.
 

AGCoinHunter

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placerman said:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Spy-Matrix-PRO-...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5638363870

Is it still paranoia when they really ARE out to get you?


A few thoughts...

It is safe to say that they probably have been watching you for months.

Most likely they had to get some kind of court order in order to place a tracking device on your car, or ping your cell phone. In addition, they probably got access to your internet usage records, and know what sites you visit, as well as bank records, etc.

Also they apparently watched you enough to see you throw the box away and went dumpster diving to retrieve it.

More than likely, they expected you to post about this and are maybe even reading this thread right now.

The fact that they think you were involved in gambling makes me think they are looking for money laundering activities.

I would agree with that.
 

placerman

Sr. Member
Oct 11, 2005
286
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I would check your computer to see if it has a keylogger installed....

Also perhaps they were looking for this?

http://stopcrime.org/?p=1262

Significant Amount Of Money Stolen From Brinks Office

[size=9pt]Between the hours of 7:00 pm Saturday night, January 17, and 9:00 am Sunday, January 18, several individuals were able to break into Brinks, Inc, 1362 Essex Avenue, Columbus, and using some type of acetylene torch, were able to gain limited access into the cash vault where some cash was removed. The burning of the vault caused ambers to ignite materials in the vault, including a small amount of money. The burglars were then able to enter a coin room where a significant amount of Susan B. Anthony one-dollar coins and 50-cent pieces were taken. The cash and coin were then loaded onto some type of vehicle and driven away, initially undetected. When employees showed up for work Sunday morning, they opened the building and saw that someone had gained entrance into the facility. They also smelled smoldering materials and contacted the Columbus Fire Department to extinguish the material.

The Columbus Police Department and the FBI were contacted and are conducting a joint investigation. The Columbus Police Crime Scene and Search Unit and the FBI’s Evidence Response Team processed the scene.

Due to the large amount of coin taken during the burglary, law enforcement officials are asking the public to contact authorities if they observe anyone attempting to turn a large amount of coin into paper currency, or purchase big-ticket items with coin. The public should be alert for anyone using or having in their possession a large amount of Susan B. Anthony or Sacagawea $1 coins, both gold and silver in color. Also, a large amount of .50 cent pieces were taken, all silver in color. In addition, those individuals managing storage locations and truck rental agencies throughout central Ohio should report information of any unusual activity that may somehow be related to the burglary at Brinks, to Crime Stoppers, their local police agency, or the FBI.
[/size]




The more I think about it the more I think they thought you were the guy or guys who did this.

What do you want to bet they stole "around" 300,000 dollars worth of halves?
 

EpsilonMinus

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What exactly did they think a terrorist would be needing coins for? Also, who told you 'they are listing to you through your phone even when turned off'? What a bizarre story.
 

ivan salis

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naval criminal intellegance service --NCIS --it ain't the stuff you see on TV folks ---military folks give up a lot of rights when they join up -- and are of course watched for security reasons -- but thru the anti terrorism laws * pushed thru after 911 --aka "the patriot act" which includes -- certain illegall banking transaction laws --to thwart common terrorist type banking activiltys --- innocent CRH ers --due to their large and often money buys of large amounts coins and moving large somes of cash about as they search for silver coins ( coins have no serial numbers--so its impossible for the govt to track to exactly which coin can from went to where -- unlike bills --every see the "wheres" george " bills where you go online and imput where it went to /from?-- thats govt money tracking 101 )--so they are often targeted -- of course once the full extent of a heavy CHR rollers hobby is reveled to show the govt investigators hes not some kind of nut job terrorist money washer --then the tax man will soon be visiting asking if you "declared" all the "gain / income" you earned on the silver coins you found and sold -- have a nice day --welcome to 1984 -- 25 years afterwards -- george orwel had it right. ---
oh by the way --your gps enabled cell phones the govt loves em -- to tap a land line requires a court order -- cell phones do not since in effect your "broadcasting" to the tower with a cell phone anytime you use it -- so legally speaking theres no "line" being tapped( oh and anyone can legally listen in on a "broadcast")--so the antique , way old anti phone tap laws that were put in place to prevent the govt just "randomly" listening in to your calls and spying on folks in the old days (they had to get a "court order from a judge and show then just cause tio do so") simply does not "apply" to cell phones --and of course the govt has made damn sure not to update these laws -- because they are looking for terrorist and stuff you know. --- most "asleep" folks just don't have a clue how much big brother is out there do they?--- you do now , scary when you know huh?

the internet is easy to monitor your use and subject matter "looked" up * --
 

jim4silver

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Apr 15, 2008
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ivan salis said:
-- to tap a land line requires a court order -- cell phones do not since in effect your "broadcasting" to the tower with a cell phone anytime you use it -- so legally speaking theres no "line" being tapped( oh and anyone can legally listen in on a "broadcast")--so the antique , way old anti phone tap laws that were put in place to prevent the govt just "randomly" listening in to your calls and spying on folks in the old days (they had to get a "court order from a judge and show then just cause tio do so") simply does not "apply" to cell phones --and of course the govt has made damn sure not to update these laws -- because they are looking for terrorist and stuff you know. --- most "asleep" folks just don't have a clue how much big brother is out there do they?--- you do now , scary when you know huh?


This is COMPLETELY FALSE. The gov needs a warrant to "tap" cell phone calls just like land lines. Perhaps it is easy for them to obtain such a warrant, but it is necessary nonetheless. I am not saying that "taps" don't sometimes occur without warrants, but said surveillance would technically be illegal and the evidence subject to suppression if it were to be used against you in court.

You run a greater chance that someone you know has downloaded software on your cellphone that allows them to eavesdrop (yes it is illegal too). If someone has access to your cell phone and your cell phone can have web access, they can download software to your phone that allows them to listen in with a call being made or without a call being made (as long as the battery is in). Some parents use this in their kids' phones, and spouses who want to see if their loved one is cheating. This would violate the law in most states under most states' wiretapping statutues (the parents might have the right since they bought the phones and gave them to the kids perhaps?).

Jim
 

ivan salis

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why do you think the bush folks got away with "warrantless" cell phone "eves dropping" on folks for so long -- the dems were screaming --you need a "court order" to wire tap on folks -- their reply basically was -- theres no "wire" being tapped so legally speaking -- show me the wire , you say I'm "tapping" * since theres is none --since theres no wire , strictly legally speaking theres no "wire" being tapped , thus legally speaking case closed-- the law say its the "wire tap law" not--the any means of telephonic communication law .

a legal loop hole the govt is only too glad to exploit.

YES WE CAN -- and will monitor you . -- but to be fair BUSH DID IT TOO .

picking between dems and repubs is like ordering off a chinese menu -- column A or column B -- you get the same basic type of stuff either way (chinese food) --but you get to feel like you really made a "choice" -- an oh by the way -- you got to pay the bill either way.
 

Jeep

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NO!!!!!!!

I am Shocked!!!!!!!

Actually It is no suprise and sorry you had to go through it. I suppose it is a sign of the times but hey,
look on the bright side that at least you are free to continue now that you have been officially "Checked Out".

Remember, Yes you can and its a Change that you can believe in :thumbsup:

Excuse me while I go relieve the contents of my stomach
 

jim4silver

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Apr 15, 2008
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ivan salis said:
why do you think the bush folks got away with "warrantless" cell phone "eves dropping" on folks for so long -- the dems were screaming --you need a "court order" to wire tap on folks -- their reply basically was -- theres no "wire" being tapped so legally speaking -- show me the wire , you say I'm "tapping" * since theres is none --since theres no wire , strictly legally speaking theres no "wire" being tapped , thus legally speaking case closed-- the law say its the "wire tap law" not--the any means of telephonic communication law .

a legal loop hole the govt is only too glad to exploit.

YES WE CAN -- and will monitor you . -- but to be fair BUSH DID IT TOO .

picking between dems and repubs is like ordering off a chinese menu -- column A or column B -- you get the same basic type of stuff either way (chinese food) --but you get to feel like you really made a "choice" -- an oh by the way -- you got to pay the bill either way.


Sorry Ivan, but your legal statements are not completely accurate. The term "wiretap" is a general term, and statutes use other terms to describe electronic surveillance involving more modern devices. There were instances involving calls made outside the US or from the US to a foreign country that involved situations where the warrants were applied for after the eavesdropping supposedly.

And I am not saying your phone cannot be tapped without a warrant. But if it is done it is not legal and cannot be used as evidence in a case against you. Fourth amendment protections would cause it to be excluded. I am referring to cases tried in either a US or state court. Not the whole "enemy combatant" and terrorist stuff.

Here is a general link explaining some of this.

http://public.getlegal.com/legal-info-center/fundamental-rights/electronic-surveillance

Jim
 

obediah

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I intend to tell them nothing, nor will I tell them where Osama is! Got rid of my cell phone long time ago.
What you are describing is Guestapo or KGB type tactics that are unConstitutional; oh I'm fuming right now, big time-these are no procedures of a just or lawful entity but a corrupt and evil government!

Put it this way was once in a car pulled over by State Trooper he asked me for my Drivers Liscence, I shot back was NOT driving told him my name (did not give it too him either), he asked for SS number said don't know it- could tell he was shocked & peeved by my calculated responses. Legally, again Constitutionally they do not have right to make US a Police State, I refuse to accept and bow so help me God.
I insist terrorism is NOT our biggest threat but the response to it, in fact terrorism is not even on my list of things to worry about. Despite having a Islamic training center that in fact is associated with the Jihadist that killed the Army recruiter in Ark last year, being just 30 miles from my house on same major hwy I live on.
Tell all you can contact good honest men- women to put this info out, what has happened to you.
 

obediah

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By the way the words- term "Al Queada" ever wonder why you do not hear what they mean in Arabic(?), think you be shocked at where words came from too; anyway the words themselves mean quite simply, "the data", and used in context can mean the database, you know like a file or list, oh and it of course was NOT what they who ever they are called themselves but a CIA generated file name.

Chase it down on the Net, I did; we are being played bigtime in an Orwellian scale ruse to expand the powers of centralized and Global Governance!

Yeah that is me in my avatar costume and with a long beard grew when was, was in, well never mind; but one thing is for sure I do NOT believe anything my Gov tells me, like Cell phone radiation is good for your Brain- may help Alzheimers too, and BackScanner radiation is harmless too- and I can go on,...... .

Oh and there is a way, easy way to avoid them finding you on net with a laptop as long as it is NOT registered to you, you simply park next to a motel with Free WiFi or even on a city street you'll pickup numerous connections from homes internet systems connections- I've done this many times when traveling. Why do you think McDonalds got out of WiFi Biz, free signals are everywhere surethe so called "terrorists" know this too ;D .
 

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golden silver

golden silver

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Jim4silver, you are correct on the law but I will tell you that do not need or use a warrant for this type of monitoring now. Sad but true. There is a video on fox news about cell phone monitoring. All you have to do is do a quick search on google videos and listen. Funny thing is most people will not listen to that program and heade the warning and they know that. I am not saying they are listening to everyone but I bet if you do a high enough amount of money they are watching you too. It is not just because I am millitary and also I did not do 10,000 dollars or more. I did around 6-8 thousand a week not a day. So if you are doing at least that amount they could be watching and most likely are.

I posted an article several months ago from a government website that talked about the people being viewed as terrorist now. The list of people were basically anyone with a convservative backround, pro gun, or anyone who has decided to stock pile amo for fear the gov would make it illegal to own a gun.

Golden Silver
 

Fredness

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Jul 16, 2009
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placerman said:
WOW!!!!

Did you let them into your home? I assume they would need a warrant or probably cause, and I don't think that the fact that you move that much coin would be cause for probably cause. I think you could easily prove this with your posts in this forum and possibly others.

At any rate, you didn't break any laws so there isn't really anything they can do other than harass you.


What do they think you were up to?

It is safe to assume they were either physically following you or tracing your movements through either your cell phone or some device planted on your car.


Edited to add... I guess if I just do 9500 per week I am fine then right? lol
US Military does not need a warrant as the members are subject to the UCMJ and are not afforded all the protections of the constitution. That is part of the life...
NCIS does not need a warrant to search the home as you are either living on base (US Govt Property) or you are being paid to live off base - and guess what, unless you want to repay every penny, you may want to just open your doors to them.
Does he have the right to refuse such a search? Absolutely.
Will this cause problems? Without a doubt.
As part of a security clearance "Uncle Sugar" can and does random checks on bank accounts, credit cards and spending habits. Large cash withdrawls and deposits will attract attention. Even if you are otherwise living inside your means, it appears that you are hiding something. That means you are a risk - no clearance; no clearance - no job.
Reducing your amounts to $9,500 to "fly under the radar" is "structed deposits" (Title 31 U.S.C. § 5324) - also a no-no.
Cellphone: http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html
Cellphone monitoring: Title 50 U.S.C. § 1801 see: "Foreign intelligence information" (FISA) - it is real and happens WITHOUT a warrant, or due process.
[edit speelling/links]
 

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golden silver

golden silver

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Wow Fredness, you sound almost exactly like one of the guys I talked to today. And before you accuse me keep in mind If I had something to hide they would have found it today. I did give them consent but under the law they described to me on paper they could confiscate my property. And for your records sir since you seem to know you stuff I did not purposefully keep my limits under 9,500. I just did the amount I could afford.

gs
 

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