A very old COUNTERFEIT !! - *unique specimen*

[TheDane]

Hi T-Netters

I want to show you this very special detector find of mine.

This coin is found near an old trading town on an island in Denmark, Europe.
The coin made me wonder a lot as I found it, and I thought it was a much younger coin.
But soon I could clearly see the monogramme of the King Christian V. (1670 - 1699).
Problem is that this king has never minted any coins with this size made of copper.
Then I saw in a coin book that the King had minted an "8 Skilling" in the enclave of Glückstadt
at that time part of the danish Kingdom (today in Germany).
The real coin however is made of quite good SILVER.
My find is definatelly made of COPPER.

Today I have got confirmed by a coin specialist that this coin is a counterfeit from that time around the 1690ies.
The coin has most likely been covered with a thin layer of silverlooking material.

This counterfeit coin is till now unknown by the coin expert.

In the picture you can see the coin together with a picture 1:1 of the real silver coin.

 

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[allen]

Re: A very old COUNTERFEIT !!

congrats on a one of a kind specimen !!!!

 

[dwayne sueno]

congrats, and nice job on the ID.
is that a clipped planchet as well?

 

[Silver Searcher]

Being a Ancient forgery / counterfeit, makes the find even more special Great find

SS

 

[TheDane]

Thank you all !

... is that a clipped planchet as well?

I think the planchet edge was struck by the planchet pipe that made the previous planchet.
In this way a little bit of the edge was struck off.
This phaenomenen is often seen on old planchets, because the planchets were struck out of the copper plate with a very narrow margin. (if you understand )

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Amazing find TheDane!

Even more amazing that you were able to identify it as a counterfeit!

Dave

 

[Iron Patch]

Cool one for sure. There's new counterfeits of many types of coins that come to light on a very regular basis. The internet is such a great tool for communication and recording finds.

 

[TheDane]

Amazing find TheDane!

Even more amazing that you were able to identify it as a counterfeit!

Dave

It actually wasn´t that difficult, Dave.

At that time 99% of all coins in my country were made of more or less silvercontaining metal.
So as I saw the monogramme I actually knew.
I send pictures of it to the expert to get the confirmation, and he answered me within a few hours, that my identification was right.

He also added a very interesting old text. A law against counterfeit minting, send out by the next king Frederik IV, a few years later, in the year of 1705, specificly mentioning the huge problem of forgery of "8 skilling" coins. (.. not mentioning those from Glückstadt specificly). 8 skilling coins very also minted in Denmark and Norway (part of the Danish Kingdom), in much larger numbers, within the Danish Kingdom of that time.

Counterfeit coins were, according to the law text, imported from foreign countries into his kingdom with great losses and problems for merchands and the people of the Kingdom.
The law says that it is from "new year on" forbidden to import "low value coins" from other countries into the Kingdom.

Here, just for the fun of it, the very old danish text that is also difficult for me to read:

(marked with red: Otte skilling) meaning "8 skilling".

1705 21. august.

Forbud Paa Smaa Mynt under halve Danske-Croner/ Specie eller Kryts-Orter at indføres i Norge efter Nyt-Aars Dag førstkommendes.

Vi Friderich den Fierde/ af Guds Naade/Konge til Danmark og Norge/ etc. Giøre alle vitterlig/ at/ eftersom Vi komme udi Erfaring hvorledes Fremmede/ som trafiqverer paa Vort Rige Norge/ en Tiid lang haver beflittet sig paa mangfoltige Otte Skilling Stykker/ lige dannede (dog falske) med Vores Præg/ fra uden Rigs-Stæder der i Riget at indføre og debitere, Vores Undersaatter i deres Handel og Commerce ikke til ringe Tab og Skade; Da/ til saadan Misbruug og Ulempe at saa afskaffet have Vi Allernaadigst for tienligt eragtet at anordne og befale saasom Vi og hermed alvorligen anordne og befale/ at fra Nyt-Aars Dag førstkommendes og derefter maa og skal ingen Mynt fra Fremmede Stæder uden Specie, Ducatoner, Realer, Albertesser, Cryts-Daler/ Eenbeeninger/ Franske-Daler/ heele og halve Danske-Croner og aldeles ingen smaa Mynt/ under halve Danske-Kroner/ Specie eller Cryts-Orter enten af Vores egne Undersaatter eller Fremmede i fornævnte Vort Rige Norge indføres; Skulle nogen efter bemælte førstkommendes Nyt-Aars Dag findes herimod at haandle/ og anden Slags Mynt/ end som for hen er specificeret, fra fremmede Stæder der i Riget at indføre/ skal samme forbudne Penge være confisqveret til tvende lige Deele/ den halve Deel til Os og den anden halve Deel til Angiveren/ som nogen dermed ertapper/ foruden at den/ som dermed betrædes skal være tilholden at betale lige saa meget i Straf-Bøder/ som de ertappede forbudne Penges Summa sig kand bedrage/ ligeledes til Deeling/ som før er mældt; Hvor efter alle og enhver Vedkommende sig allerunderdanigst have at rætte/ og for Skade at tage vare; Og paa det ingen sig med nogen U-videnhed skal have at undskylde/ saa befale Vi hermed Vores Græver og Friherrer/ Stiftbefalingsmænd, Præsidenter, Borgemestere og Raad, Fogder og alle andre som dette Vores Forbud under Vores Cancellie-Segl tilskikket vorder/ at de det paa behørige Stæder til alles Efterretning strax lader læse og forkynde/ og der over alvorligen holde/ til hvilken Ende Vi og allernaadigst ville/ at det over alt paa Told-Stæderne i bemældte Vort Rige Norge skal anslaaes. Givet paa Vort Slot Cronborg den 21 Augusti Anno 1705.

Under Vores Kongel. Haand og Signet

Friderich R.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Amazing find TheDane!

Even more amazing that you were able to identify it as a counterfeit!

Dave

It actually wasn´t that difficult, Dave.

At that time 99% of all coins in my country were made of more or less silvercontaining metal.
So as I saw the monogramme I actually knew.
I send pictures of it to the expert to get the confirmation, and he answered me within a few hours, that my identification was right.

He also added a very interesting old text. A law against counterfeit minting, send out by the next king Frederik IV, a few years later, in the year of 1705, specificly mentioning the huge problem of forgery of "8 skilling" coins. (.. not mentioning those from Glückstadt specificly). 8 skilling coins very also minted in Denmark and Norway (part of the Danish Kingdom), in much larger numbers, within the Danish Kingdom of that time.

Counterfeit coins were, according to the law text, imported from foreign countries into his kingdom with great losses and problems for merchands and the people of the Kingdom.
The law says that it is from "new year on" forbidden to import "low value coins" from other countries into the Kingdom.

Here, just for the fun of it, the very old danish text that is also difficult for me to read:

Thanks for all the information Dane!

Now I'm going to have to spend the next 2 weeks translating all this from my Danish dictionary!

Dave

 

[TheDane]

Amazing find TheDane!

Even more amazing that you were able to identify it as a counterfeit!

Dave

It actually wasn´t that difficult, Dave.

At that time 99% of all coins in my country were made of more or less silvercontaining metal.
So as I saw the monogramme I actually knew.
I send pictures of it to the expert to get the confirmation, and he answered me within a few hours, that my identification was right.

He also added a very interesting old text. A law against counterfeit minting, send out by the next king Frederik IV, a few years later, in the year of 1705, specificly mentioning the huge problem of forgery of "8 skilling" coins. (.. not mentioning those from Glückstadt specificly). 8 skilling coins very also minted in Denmark and Norway (part of the Danish Kingdom), in much larger numbers, within the Danish Kingdom of that time.

Counterfeit coins were, according to the law text, imported from foreign countries into his kingdom with great losses and problems for merchands and the people of the Kingdom.
The law says that it is from "new year on" forbidden to import "low value coins" from other countries into the Kingdom.

Here, just for the fun of it, the very old danish text that is also difficult for me to read:

Thanks for all the information Dane!

Now I'm going to have to spend the next 2 weeks translating all this from my Danish dictionary!

Dave

LOL , yeah .... many of the words used back then in 1705 you won´t even find in a modern dictionary.

 

[Bavaria Mike]

Nice post! Old counterfeit coins are cool. HH, Mike

 

[Deno]

Hey Dane, that is to cool. Welcome to the counterfeit club.

Looks like human nature has remained the same through out history.

The history on yours is amazing. Congratulations

 

[TheDane]

Thanks Mike and Deno