ABSDOLUTELY STUPID New Rules

[Duckshot]

So, again... are you saying if someone takes just 5 construction grade 2x4x8's and turns them into something for a $100.00 net profit in a day owes the Government and its citizens something? If so... WHY?

Yeah.

If person sells their labor, assuming that they already own their labor, where is the income?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

So, again... are you saying if someone takes just 5 construction grade 2x4x8's and turns them into something for a $100.00 net profit in a day owes the Government and its citizens something? If so... WHY?

Uhhh.... Because the law says income, whether tangible goods OR SERVICES, is taxable ?

Yeah.

If person sells their labor, assuming that they already own their labor, where is the income?

Uhhh, the "income" is the $$ they get from when the customer pays the bill for services rendered . Eh ?

Ok you 2 scofflaws, start abiding by the code of ethics, which *clearly* says "Know and obey all laws". Tsk tsk.

 

[Duckshot]

Uhhh, the "income" is the $$ they get from when the customer pays the bill for services rendered . Eh ?

Not at all. The money retrieved from the customer is merely equal compensation for service rendered. The seller sold his time and skill. Are you saying his time and skill are owned by government like a master owns a slave?

What does the law say? What is the statute definition of "income"?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... What does the law say? What is the statute definition of "income"?

Good question. It is defined as "goods or services". And "services" can be intangible things. "Time and skill" as you call it. So for example, some business or person who offers consulting services (computer programmer, or computer fixers, or tax consultants, etc....) are not selling a "tangible asset", are they ? Yet their businesses are most definitely a money-making concern.

Or for example my own business is a street sweeper business. We sell no tangible goods (unless you consider diesel gas, wear-parts, employee payroll, insurances, etc... to be "tangible"). We are strictly a service business. Selling no physical goods. And most certainly I have to report all our incomes , as business income.

And as Scuba has alluded to here: Most definitely "hobbyist income" is in tax law. And yes, you can likewise take tax write-off deductions if you want (your fuel, cost of batteries, cost of machine, etc....)

Ok everyone: I expect you all to report your $$ on your income taxes !

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Oh, and as far as reporting the income, most of us would argue that .... once we take the "write-offs", then we're left with zero income, right ? But if you report "losses" for 3 years in a row, you will subject yourself to an audit, where they can determine that it's "pleasure" and not a "business", and start taxing you .

Any tax consultants here to comment on that ? If not, I have a tax consultant md'ing buddy I'll consult , and report back to the forum.

 

[Duckshot]

Define income.

Surely there is a definition in the statutes.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Surely there is a definition in the statutes.

I believe I just did for you: "income from goods or services sold". And "services" can be intangible assets (like your "skill" at swinging a detector, for instance).

A beach hunting buddy of mine is a tax accountant. I just popped him an email. I'll report back to the forum what he says.

 

[Duckshot]

Cool.

Thanks. : )

 

[fyrffytr1]

While going through the refinancing process 5 or 6 years ago I deposited about $300 into my checking account that came from pocket change that I saved for a year. Within two days I got a call from the mortgage company wanting to know where the extra income came from. I hope I never have to go through another mortgage process as long as I live.

 

[Kansas_Jayhawk]

You must have jerks for bank officers. Banks only need to report cash deposits of ten grand or more, otherwise they have no legal need to question where deposits came from. I have deposited more than twice what you did in cash and was never asked anything. Go find another bank, no bank "needs" to know where deposit money comes from unless it hits the ten grand threshold.

Why is it every time someone wants to blame the "bank" - never understood this.

First lets face the facts banks are heavily regulated and to point a finger at "the bank" is shooting the messenger.
Second banks "HAVE" to verify where the funds for a deposit came from to make sure they were legit.
Third your $10K comment isn't as accurate as people want to believe.

 

[markmopar]

With credit cards, there is no need to have a large amount of cash on you, or in your home.

https://www.gobankingrates.com/savi...sical-cash-need-hand-case-national-emergency/

“It’s wise to have a small amount of physical cash, about $1,000, at home for the truest of emergencies when banks are not operating,” said Priyanka Prakash, finance specialist at Fit Small Business, a company that finds the best small-business software, services and financing options.
Or take this scenario: The president declares a national emergency, and you know that you won’t have access to your bank account for one full week. You’ll need immediate cash on hand for the cost of a week’s worth of groceries and emergency supplies. If authorities should order an evacuation, gas and motel costs come into play. $2,000 should cover those costs, with a little extra just in case.


Despite these suggestions and what some other experts might advise, though, there’s no magic amount you should have nestled away in your emergency fund. The answer for how much you should save for an emergency situation is that you should do what feels right to you. No matter the amount, an emergency fund is absolutely necessary — so make it a priority to build one.
Even if you can’t afford to save much, it’s better to save something rather than nothing, Prakash said. So if you can only afford to set aside $1,000 for an emergency fund, that’s better than not saving at all."

 

[Limitool]

Uhhh.... Because the law says income, whether tangible goods OR SERVICES, is taxable ?

Uhhh, the "income" is the $$ they get from when the customer pays the bill for services rendered . Eh ?

Ok you 2 scofflaws, start abiding by the code of ethics, which *clearly* says "Know and obey all laws". Tsk tsk.

So.... if I spend 4 hours cutting and machining 5 2x4x8's into something for $100 dollars and I pay myself $30.00 p/h isn't that a wash / or a lost? That's close to what I made when I retired @ age 49. Who the hell would even care? Even if I did 10 P/WK @ $1,000? Or maybe I'll charge myself minimum wages and really show a lost...?

It's no wonder the underground economy would / does probably dwarf the reported one. There's a lot of dumb folks out here just having fun.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Who the hell would even care?....

That is exactly my standard to just md'ing practices/habits by. If "no one cares", then nor will I

You're right: you'd be hard-pressed to find a tax-man who would go after you for "failing to declare $70 in loose change". Or "a few hundred from melted rings" on your taxes. However, if you were to ASK the taxman: "Is this the law?", they would be duty-bound to give you the correct answer: "Yes"

As to whether they really CARE or not, .... is another matter

 

[ScubaDetector]

Kind of funny to think about. I also have over 3 grand in silver mostly coins. How would you prove that is yours if you had to?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Kind of funny to think about. I also have over 3 grand in silver mostly coins. How would you prove that is yours if you had to?

Well , since each of those silver coins is worth less than your state's value criteria threshold, that would've required it to be turned in to police lost & found, then none of that was required to get "returned to you by the police". Thus yes, you'd have the sticky bank problem on your hand then !

But perhaps if you'd declared those on your taxes (as income) like you were supposed to, then you'd have your tax returns , to show the bank, that they were "counted as income". And ... heck, it might even be line-itemed named as "metal detecting income". Presto, problem solved

As for the income tax question: In post #87 on this thread, I said I had a local md'ing friend, who's also a CPA. I just asked him if income from metal detecting is taxable. I am going to start a new thread, to put his answer on there

 

[ScubaDetector]

Well , since each of those silver coins is worth less than your state's value criteria threshold, that would've required it to be turned in to police lost & found, then none of that was required to get "returned to you by the police". Thus yes, you'd have the sticky bank problem on your hand then !

But perhaps if you'd declared those on your taxes (as income) like you were supposed to, then you'd have your tax returns , to show the bank, that they were "counted as income". And ... heck, it might even be line-itemed named as "metal detecting income". Presto, problem solved

As for the income tax question: In post #87 on this thread, I said I had a local md'ing friend, who's also a CPA. I just asked him if income from metal detecting is taxable. I am going to start a new thread, to put his answer on there

Maybe but you don't have to claim them UNTIL after and IF you sell them. So you couldn't put them on your taxes until the next year.

 

[Duckshot]

I'm gonna put the next whitetail deer I shoot on my 10-40 as "income".

Oh, I found a plastic shirt button then other day. Better add that too.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Maybe but you don't have to claim them UNTIL after and IF you sell them. .....

Tsk tsk tsk. As a former LEO, we expect better of you scuba ! Don't you remember the news- story of the couple who stumbled upon rusty cans full of gold coins, while hiking in the sierra CA foothills ? One of the curious tidbits of that story, was that they were to owe taxes on the value EVEN before they sold. I guess the finders were in no hurry to sell yet, as of the time of the media story? But curiously (shown in a link on my other thread) you can see that they were obligated to pay taxes AT THE TIME (the year) of the RECOVERY. Whether or not they'd sold them yet.

It would be the same way, as how when you get a paycheck from your employer. Notice on the pay stub that you've ALREADY been taxed. Right ? (Fica, SDI, state & Fed). EVEN IF YOU DON'T EVER CASH THAT CHECK.

So .... the bank's right. You are a lawless miscreant

 

[Duckshot]

Tom_in_CA, I don't mean to be a pest, but you still have not nailed down a definition of "income".

Take that deer I'm going to shoot, it is definitely a gain for me but is it income?

What about gold panned in a state like WI where mineral specimens cannot be sold? It literally has no salable value whatsoever. Is that income?

There has to be a definition of income in the statutes, someplace. I have not been able to locate it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom_in_CA, I don't mean to be a pest, but you still have not nailed down a definition of "income".

Take that deer I'm going to shoot, it is definitely a gain for me but is it income?

What about gold panned in a state like WI where mineral specimens cannot be sold? It literally has no salable value whatsoever. Is that income?

There has to be a definition of income in the statutes, someplace. I have not been able to locate it.

Duck-shot, not a pest at all ! If anything, I'm the pest, doh!

I'm not a CPA, but .... I'll take a crack at your questions:

a) Good question on wild game, that has value. Ie.: a deer can provide a family of 4 meat for a LOT of family dinners to come, eh ? Thus it definitely has value, eh ? If that deer (or some such asset of value) is given to someone as payment, then they are subject to taxes on the value of it. FOR EXAMPLE: I have 4 employees in my company. If I we tried to circumvent tax obligation by paying them in the form of free gas, free cars, food, free-rent in a house they'll live in, etc.... then I KNOW that the value of such things is considered income. Otherwise, EVERY Employer and Employee would be circumventing tax obligations by giving raw goods or supplies, instead of money.

How that works for the individual getting economic gain (food in the case of your question), from an entity that is not an employer or buyer of your goods .... I don't know. Good question ! I will pass that on to my CPA friend now.

b) For the minerals you cite, that have "no value", then I believe that answers your question, eh ? If they have "no value", then they're outside the scope of any question of "income", eh ?

I'll ask my friend if he has a link to questions like this. Thanx !