Ancient Snake Sword Letter Opener.. Age? Composition? Maker? Info Please

franking · Nov 10, 2011

Was hunting on an old Victorian Mansion site in Western Massachusetts. Dug an old bronze/gold (?) sword or dagger letter opener. Aprx 6" long. It has a snake head and other markings, but no letters or numbers. It easily left "gold looking" flakes on sand paper. Has a very very slight magnetism to it but barely anything. Gives a low VDI number on my Matrix M6 in the gold range. I tested it against a gold ring and it came up with close to the same numbers. House and land was owned by a very wealthy business man in the 1800's.. However the artifact looks much older than that. It looks like it was intentionally buried as a cache. Any ideas on maker, age, worth or the likes.. Thank you and happy hunting.

Havilah_Springs · Nov 11, 2011

Hey franking;

What did it look like when it came out of the ground? What does the rest of it look like? How long, and wide is it?

H_S

Ramitt · Nov 11, 2011

Cool find.

High Plains Digger · Nov 11, 2011

My first impression was that it was either made to look old, or that the workmanship was really bad. Still thinking about other aspects of it.

franking · Nov 11, 2011

Re: More Details and full photo on Ancient Snake Sword Letter Opener

Hello thanks for the views and replies! Here is more details on the artifact.
From doing some research on swords and daggers I came up with this terminology.
Double edged blade. It is apprx. 6" in total length. 4" of blade, 1.5" of from fuller to ricasso, guard is 1.5", total length of hilt (from quillion to pommel is 2") grip from guard to pommel is 1" Lobed Snake Head Quillion.

franking · Nov 11, 2011

Re: Ancient Snake Sword Opener When I dug it and what it looked like then.

When I dug it and what it looked like then.
It was a muddy / dirty had to take a brush to it.. It was duller in shine.
I then used sand paper on blade until I realized that there was bits of shiney gold like particles coming off on my sand paper ( 100 grit ) so I immediately stopped.. I havent done much else with it as far as cleaning goes.
Any suggetions on further cleaning or should I leave it alone? thank you

TypicalClinger · Nov 11, 2011

At least from the pic it looks a little too blunt to be a letter opener. Looks almost like a gaming piece. like maybe D&D or something like that. Just a guess. :dontknow:

Cool though.

2Minnesota · Nov 12, 2011

Have it tested for gold content? Good luck!

SODABOTTLEBOB · Nov 12, 2011

franking ~

I found these "possible letter openers." The one in the center appears to be very similar, if not identical to yours. Unfortunately there were no detailed descriptions with them, other than this which is copy/pasted ...

"Here we have three miniature swords, possible letter openers. The longer one has no markings but does have a scabbard. Its overall length is 9-1/2 in. The second one is possibly silver unmarked as well and its overall length is 7 inches. The third is marked Toledo and its overall length is 6-1/2 inches."

I will keep searching and let you know if I find anything more specific.

SBB

Noodle · Nov 12, 2011

I'm still looking for the snake on it. ha! As far as sandpaper and cleaning goes, put your sandpaper away, FAR AWAY. Really! Soap and water and old t-shirts to clean and dry. Maybe a soft toothbrush to clean grooves, but only if it is really soft. Do no damage.

It really doesn't appear to be sharp enough to be a letter opener to me, but I don't know what else it could be unless it's a game piece (?) or a what-not. Pretty, though.

Havilah_Springs · Nov 12, 2011

Re: Ancient Snake Sword Opener When I dug it and what it looked like then.

franking said:
When I dug it and what it looked like then.
It was a muddy / dirty had to take a brush to it.. It was duller in shine.
I then used sand paper on blade until I realized that there was bits of shiney gold like particles coming off on my sand paper ( 100 grit ) so I immediately stopped.. I havent done much else with it as far as cleaning goes.
Any suggetions on further cleaning or should I leave it alone? thank you

I don't recommend using a wire brush or sandpaper on any objects that you find, you may have decreased it's value considerably.

I would have guessed that it was brass, but if it did not have a greenish patina when you dug it up, who knows it might be gold.

H_S

mydejavooo · Nov 12, 2011

Sandpaper

I agree.....loose the 80 grit!! It looks like a newer piece, but if it IS old, you will destroy the value almost immediately. It is a really cool little letter opener though! :thumbsup:

HH

DeJa

SODABOTTLEBOB · Nov 12, 2011

franking ~

1. I am 100% convinced that your item is a letter opener.
2. After looking at dozens/hundreds of similar letter openers,
yours appears to be generic in design.
3. I can see nothing on yours (symbol) that connects it with
a specific organization. (I don't see the "snake.")
4. It appears to be extremely worn. Which suggest a great
deal of use - high soil abrasion - or from water running
over it for an extended period of time.
5. Without some type of makers mark it may be impossible to
properly identify and date.

Cool find irregardless. Good luck in your search. I'm giving up with this post.

SBB

P.S. ~ The "Knights of Pythias" masonic organization used a "Lily" symbol. But I can't say for certain if the center symbol on yours and the one I posted a picture of is a Lily or something else. If "Knights of Pythias," it should also have their "F.C.B" letters on it that stand for ...

"Friendship ~ Charity ~ Beneveolence"

:dontknow:

[ Here is a typical "Knights of Pythias" Lily symbol ]

mrs.oroblanco · Nov 12, 2011

Neat find.

I see part of the problem with identifying it. I see a frog at the tip, and a fleur de lis. :icon_scratch:

I also think it is definitely a letter opener, cast brass, maybe, and probably from around 1930-1945 (a big time for all sorts of letter openers, especially the dagger form).

Beth

SODABOTTLEBOB · Nov 12, 2011

Did someone say, "Ribbit" ... er, I mean "Frog?"

(Beth ~ Good eyes! :icon_thumleft:

)

This Shriner's medal may be a toad or a frog. It is made of copper-colored metal and reads; Zenobia, July 1908, Toledo (Ohio), St. Paul. The back is stamped Putman Co. Chicago.

SBB

:dontknow:

SODABOTTLEBOB · Nov 12, 2011

In case there are other dummies out there (like me) who didn't know what a "Fleur-de-Lis" was, the following will educate you ... (Which I saw on the letter opener earlier, but described as a "Lily." Little did I know at the time, but I was half right). :icon_thumleft:

The fleur-de-lis or fleur-de-lys (plural: fleurs-de-lis) is a stylized lily (in French, fleur means flower, and lis means lily) or iris that is used as a decorative design or symbol. It may be "at one and the same time, political, dynastic, artistic, emblematic, and symbolic", especially in heraldry.

But please don't ask me what "heraldry" means. (Lol). :icon_scratch:

TypicalClinger · Nov 13, 2011

SodaBob I'm sure you nailed it with very worn letter opener. One of the openers in the pics you posted exactly matches the pattern.

franking · Nov 13, 2011

Wow you guys (and gals) know your stuff. I can not thank you all :hello2:

enough for educating me on this find. I am impressed with the helping hand and knowledge you have shown here.
I am still wrapping my heads around the info presented.
I believe it is a letter opener.. Just real worn.. Perhaps a child played with it as a sword, wearing and tearing. I have not checked for what type of material it is made from but it looks like a mixture of brass gold or silver brass

I will take it to a jeweler and see if they can test for silver / gold.
More to come for final determination and Whatzit status. Thanks again.

SODABOTTLEBOB · Nov 13, 2011

I'm not sure if the following is a clue or a wild goose chase. But I thought the text that accompanied the item was kind of interesting because it uses both Fleur-de-Lis and frog in its description. I realize its an entirely different letter opener, but maybe there is a connection of some kind to the one in question, and maybe not. Whichever the case, here goes ...

~ Vintage Fleur-de-Lis Handle Letter Opener ~ Dagger ~ Spain ~

"This is a vintage letter opener. It measures 10" tip to tip. The handle is very interesting. It has a vine leading to the Fleur-de-Lis design at the end of the handle. The design incorporates some type of reptile or amphibian. My first thought was that the animal is a frog, but the creature in the design has a long neck like the other serpents pictured on the handle. The blade has a clear imprint of "Italy" as the place of origin. The opposite side of the blade has marks that are not legible, but appear to be letters."

Q: Does the tip of the handle look like a frog to you? :icon_scratch:

SODABOTTLEBOB · Nov 13, 2011

Let's see if this will help answer my question(s). Do these two so called frog designs look the same or similar to you? And are we sure that Beth's frog is actually a frog, or something else? The only thing I'm sure of is that I like a good mystery challenge and love looking for "What Is It?" stuff on the internet.