Antebellum Silver Makers Mark Help

[BuckleBoy]

UPDATED PIC BELOW--I dug the matching piece of this spoon!

Hello All,

Could someone help me find information about the maker of this piece? I am guessing late 1700s/early 1800s. There are two, perhaps three hallmarks (second photo) and the maker's mark is "S F C" with stars between the letters. I have no idea about the orientation of the hallmarks in the second photo (might very well be upside down in the photo).








Thanks in advance,

Buckles

 

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[coinman123]

I'm not sure about a maker but it appears that the 1701 date marker is on it, there are variations in the date marker, but your appears to be it but I'm not sure. I'm thinking that the letters could be a monogram of some sort, not a marker's mark, but again I'm not sure. I'm not very good at hallmarks.


Coinman123,

 

[DCMatt]

The second mark from the top in pic #2 is crowned T. I thought that would make it easy to find but... oh well. I find some evidence that it could be a Dutch guild mark that would fit your time range but nothing definitive. I think the maker's mark is S "star" E "star", but the E is a weak stike. Again, I did not find a maker using these initials for that time period - Dutch or otherwise. I think I can say with high confidence that it is not American nor British made. If we only had a "What isn't it" forum, I'd be doing pretty well.

DCMatt

 

[ipsilateral]

Very nice. 18th century or maybe even earlier. You should post this on the 925-1000 forum. They'll give you the answer.

Happy new year! Nate

 

[Mackaydon]

DCMAtt,
If we only had a "What isn't it" forum, I'd be doing pretty well.
Well said --and I ditto that.
Don.

 

[BuckleBoy]

The second mark from the top in pic #2 is crowned T. I thought that would make it easy to find but... oh well. I find some evidence that it could be a Dutch guild mark that would fit your time range but nothing definitive. I think the maker's mark is S "star" E "star", but the E is a weak stike. Again, I did not find a maker using these initials for that time period - Dutch or otherwise. I think I can say with high confidence that it is not American nor British made. If we only had a "What isn't it" forum, I'd be doing pretty well.

DCMatt

Looking very closely there is at least one more letter after the second star. O, C, or G would work, as the curved left hand side of this third letter is barely visible at the break. You're absolutely correct about the crowned "T" so that is excellent information. I would imagine that the large hallmark should be identifiable if we just knew where to look. I did post this at the Silver Forum website, so we will see if there is more information there, and I'll post here if there is...

 

[BuckleBoy]

UPDATE! I just dug the matching piece of this spoon! I looked closely and definitely S * F * C are the three letters on it. The handle part is an exact match. See the updated photo above.

 

[DCMatt]

UPDATE! I just dug the matching piece of this spoon!

Awesome! A little solder and you can eat with it!

DCMatt

 

[BuckleBoy]

Awesome! A little solder and you can eat with it!

DCMatt

Hallmark is complete now. But I still haven't found any ID through searching online.

 

[cw0909]

BuckleBoy, over at the 925, they say french, going with that i found this, maybe the 925 or someone
will find more, nice you found the other part of spoon,keep looking, maybe some stashed fam heirlooms

Issoire, France YEAR xviii Riom community
Silver Hallmarks www.H.cx Hallmarks encyclopedia. More then 15,000 silver hallmarks from all over the world. New hallmarks added every day.(copyright 2015)

 

[DCMatt]

BuckleBoy, over at the 925, they say french, going with that i found this, maybe the 925 or someone
will find more, nice you found the other part of spoon,keep looking, maybe some stashed fam heirlooms

Issoire, France YEAR xviii Riom community
Silver Hallmarks [URL="http://www.H.cx"]www.H.cx Hallmarks encyclopedia. More then 15,000 silver hallmarks from all over the world. New hallmarks added every day.(copyright 2015)[/URL]

I agree - French. But I think the Dunkerque 1780 mark is closer.

The other marks are a jug - Paris export mark 1781(ish)
And a foliate "A" - Paris charge mark 1781

 

[DCMatt]

Charge mark image edited.

 

[DCMatt]

I think the S*E*C may be owner's initials.

DCMatt

 

[Silver Searcher]

Will, the Jug mark on the spoon...is a Pseudo hallmark, which is a silver mark not regulated or administered by an officially sanctioned assay office or guild. Generally they are intended to imitate official hallmarks, these were commonly seen on American coin silver, China trade silver and German items from the Hanau area.

The five pointed stars are mullets which were sometimes incorporated into makers marks and heraldic devices. So perhaps this was Silver imported from the Hanau area of Germany, and made by an American maker

SS

 

[ARC]

First I will say this... VERY COOL PIECE.
And I regret to say this...
Welp... I am at a loss... my brain is fried from this one. heh... I have looked at it on and off all day.
Ya got me...
I have been through a pile of my books and info I have on the French
The royalty / high ups / notables
A ton of French timeline data on who's who etc...
On and on and on... French Ship data (for names of ships)...
French settlement/colony notables /people etc.
Early French businesses / trade names etc...
This one is a mystery piece... a riddle even...
This will plague me... heh
And have found myself even looking at the net for things from everything from San Francisco C.... to Son of Federation Confederate... blah blah blah.... you get the pic.
I mean even off the wall crap... nothing.
Not even a spark in hopes of a waft of smoke...
Cool piece...
cool enough to pay attention to this thread for sure.

 

[ARC]

Will, the Jug mark on the spoon...is a Pseudo hallmark, which is a silver mark not regulated or administered by an officially sanctioned assay office or guild. Generally they are intended to imitate official hallmarks, these were commonly seen on American coin silver, China trade silver and German items from the Hanau area.

The five pointed stars are mullets which were sometimes incorporated into makers marks and heraldic devices. So perhaps this was Silver imported from the Hanau area of Germany, and made by an American maker

SS

Err silver.. you do not think that is French mark ?... here all along I thought was decided French ?

 

[cw0909]

ive look too, and i dont think i saw a spoon or fork with the owners initials/monogram
on the same side as the hall and makers marks, maybe the initials are for a company
or....
i put the hallmarks that DCMatt put up with BuckleBoys spoons hallmarks, so i can see
them without scrolling back and forth

 

[Silver Searcher]

Err silver.. you do not think that is French mark ?... here all along I thought was decided French ?

No I am not saying it's not a French Mark, I am mearly pointing out that this mark, can either resemble marks from other makers, towns, countries and assay offices or are complete fantasy marks. These marks are found on reproductions made primarily in Hanau, Germany, but pseudo marks have been used extensively by Dutch and Italian reproducers as well as manufacturers from other German cities.

Like you I searched till my head hurt and could not find anything close, I think if it were French, we would perhaps have seen a match for the S * F * C, which is most likely the maker.

SS

 

[ARC]

No I am not saying it's not a French Mark, I am mearly pointing out that this mark, can either resemble marks from other makers, towns, countries and assay offices or are complete fantasy marks. These marks are found on reproductions made primarily in Hanau, Germany, but pseudo marks have been used extensively by Dutch and Italian reproducers as well as manufacturers from other German cities.

Like you I searched till my head hurt and could not find anything close, I think if it were French, we would perhaps have seen a match for the S * F * C, which is most likely the maker
SS

Ahhh... I see what you are saying now...
fantasy... you think they would bother to mark to such degree... OR use "real" metals in production?

I am thinking along the lines of Ship, Train, Stagecoach line...
Mark like W*S*L = "White Star Line" etc... <- FOR EXAMPLE ONLY ! heh