Antietam gives up a tasty treat UPDATED Dentist opinion

[tymcmurray]

Civilman1 and I hit a section near Antietam that I had never been to before. Civilman got 4 bullets from the area last week. My Whites 6000 was down for the count so I used my Tesoro and dug EVERY hit. I came away with my first honest to goodness civil war bullet, but it wasn't what I expected. The bullet was a chewed bullet wit definite human teeth marks all over it. You can see the opening of the bullet was pinched shut.

After a 5+ hour hunt, we decided to go over to our Williamsport site. There I got another first. My very first artillery fragment. What a rush to see that big ole piece of iron come out of the dirt. First thing I did, once I realized I wasn't seeing things, was look for civilman to share the excitement. Then we opened a couple of cold ones and celebrated a little before hitting it again.

 

[haboo]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

Last one for you.
Quote: Word Detective
"bite the bullet," meaning "to endure an unpleasant situation or perform an unpleasant task," which first appeared (in the form "bite on the bullet") in print around 1891. The geographic point of origin is uncertain, but "bite the bullet" almost certainly did originally refer to the practice of surgery before the invention of effective anesthesia, when patients were sometimes given an object (such as a leather strap or, on the battlefield, a bullet) to bite on to help them bear the pain.

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

My Whites 6000 was down for the count so I used my Tesoro and dug EVERY hit. I came away with my first honest to goodness civil war bullet......

Ty,
Heck with who bit the bullet. Tell me again about how you found it with your Tesoro, while the White's was down for the count. That was my favorite part.
Tesoro strikes again! (I hope Kirk doesn't read this)
Seriously though, congrats on some great finds.
-MM-

 

[IronClad]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

The practice or habit of carrying/chewing lead bullets / balls goes back even further than the Civil War. Its documented in written accounts about soildiers and frontiersman during the F & I, Rev. War did this.

Frontiersman, Indian fighters etc... Daniel Boone, Simon Kenton, Lewis & Martin Wetzel, Sam Brady and others carried extra round balls in their mouth to facilitate quick re-loading of their muzzleloader, without a patch. Many of them were skilled in the practice of re-loading " on the run ".

Although not advisable due to health dangers,,, many re-enactors today,
continue to do this in competitions. I've been in the Re-enacting circuit for a long time and have done extensive reading to perfect my persona, and while reading, came across written accounts of biting down on a bullet. I'LL see if I can find a few examples.

Soldiers used bullets for gaming pieces, carved dice outta them, carried them in their mouth, and I have No Doubt, they chewed them.

 

[gallileo60]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

SWR, these lead bullets are VERY SOFT, it is very easy to leave bite marks in them. And in many cases, more than one person DID use the same bullet to bite down on. This isn't conjecture, it is a KNOWN fact. As far as human vs. feral hogs, this is true but there were FAR more soldiers and bullets in the area of Antietam vs hogs and bullets. Your are talking over 100,000 men engaged plus reserves. Being that this was found on one of the BLOODIEST battlefields of the Civil War, I have no doubt in my mind that they are human teeth marks. Besides, you can easily see the size of the teethmarks. I am sure that the occasional Hog may have sometime in the past, wondered up on a Civil War bullet but it is FAR more likely to find the ones that have been chewed by soldiers.

I am a reenactor and I will post a picture if you would like of me "putting" teethmarks into lead. It is very soft. I dont recommend that ANY one do this BUT to lay this thing to rest, I would gladly show you guys that it is VERY easy to leave teeth marks in these old lead bullets. You can go on relic sites on the net and buy them by the bags full.

You can never lay this to rest, unless a forensic expert looks at them.....Who really cares what bit the bullet, you own it, and it is cool...If in your mind it was a person, COOL......I will say there were, and are alot more feral hogs than you can know....horrible creatures by the way....Really cool find.....Tom

 

[{Sentinel}]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

Well bottom line, I dont know how we got on whether surgeons used them or not, which they did, but originally it seemed as if ya'll were trying to tell Ty that a Hog chewed his bullet and that a man could not have possibly done it. I showed that it could indeed be done to a Civil War minie by men and given a little time, a couple hours or so, that lead would be totally crushed... But even BioProfessor lamented that the soldiers DID chew them so there you go. Whether it was used for surgery or just chewed on the field; it was chewed on by a soldier. You are on one of the top 3 BLOODIEST battlefields on the Continent. Therefore it is very safe to say: beautiful chewed Civil War musketball.

 

[haboo]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

Well bottom line, I dont know how we got on whether surgeons used them or not, which they did, but originally it seemed as if ya'll were trying to tell Ty that a Hog chewed his bullet and that a man could not have possibly done it. I showed that it could indeed be done to a Civil War minie by men and given a little time, a couple hours or so, that lead would be totally crushed... But even BioProfessor lamented that the soldiers DID chew them so there you go. Whether it was used for surgery or just chewed on the field, it was chewed on by a soldier. You are on one of the top 3 BLOODIEST battlefields on the Continent. Therefore it is very safe to say: beautiful chewed Civil War musketball.

Well said

 

[gallileo60]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

Well bottom line, I dont know how we got on whether surgeons used them or not, which they did, but originally it seemed as if ya'll were trying to tell Ty that a Hog chewed his bullet and that a man could not have possibly done it. I showed that it could indeed be done to a Civil War minie by men and given a little time, a couple hours or so, that lead would be totally crushed... But even BioProfessor lamented that the soldiers DID chew them so there you go. Whether it was used for surgery or just chewed on the field, it was chewed on by a soldier. You are on one of the top 3 BLOODIEST battlefields on the Continent. Therefore it is very safe to say: beautiful chewed Civil War musketball.

Well said

Well said, but who knows.

 

[tymcmurray]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

Let's have a quick recap.
I posted a chewed bullet. THAT is not in debate.
The debate started when somebody doubted whether it was chewed by human
or animal.
It was said that, "there could be some with human marks but more than
99% of the time the marks are from hogs in the area at the time."
For someone who wants everything backed up by articles in writing, Where
does the 99% come from? Just curious.
Then it was said that humans couldn't do a bullet damage. Somebody with a
little grit proved that theory wrong.
So the debate turned strictly to medicinal conversation. When you can't
win an argument, change the focus. Or so I'm told.
This is what I think.....for what it's worth.
this bullet was chewed to sh!t by something, and not being an "expert",
it looks like human to me. But, in order to solve this specific bullet
debate, I contacted my dentist, he was in the office today, and he agreed
to examine the bullet Monday morning for all of us. I will share whatever
he says.
Thanks for those of you that gave heartfelt intelligent points of view, no
matter if I agree with you or not.
To the person that has never, in any of my posts, given any “known facts",
but insists that others "validate" theirs, you have proved your worth, or lack thereof.
By the way. The cannonball piece is almost done. I'll post the new photos
tomorrow.
Thanks all and Good hunting.
PS. Tesoro DID save the day for me!

 

[gallileo60]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

I cant hardly wait to see the clean pics....So cool....

 

[tymcmurray]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

I cant hardly wait to see the clean pics....So cool....

The cannonball is my first try at electrolysis.
I'm a little suprised at how easy and how well
it works.

 

[TeddyB1967]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

I don’t understand why it's so difficult to believe a soldier in severe pain would not bite on a bullet to give himself some relief. I’m sure the last thing on an injured soldier mind that was just shot in the middle of a chaotic hectic bloody battle was, "I shouldn't bite on this for fear I might swallow it." or "If I suffer here long enough screaming and scared to death, I might make it to a field hospital for some real pain med. or a leather strap to bite on instead of this here bullet."

A soldier isn’t gonna be carrying much more than he needs into battle, (A weapon and ammo, MAYBE a water canteen), carrying leather straps or rags to chew on wouldn’t be something they would need or even think about needing. Also you have to remember that most of these soldiers were very young and not well educated.

In the moment of chaos, your not gonna think logically or use common sense. Some of you are assuming only those wounded that made it to a field hospital ever bit or chewed on a bullet, not the men in the field before ever going to a field hospital. It may not have been common for a doctor to give the wounded a bullet to chew on, but those soldiers in the field would have done what they thought would help the injured to ease the pain or at least give them something else to focus on.

Of all the war picture’s I have seen, I have yet to see one with a feral hog running around during or after any of the battles. Not saying there weren’t any wild hogs, just saying I personally don’t think they were as common as some may think.

 

[piggman1]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

Feral hog's are domestic hogs that have turned wild. Most of the hogs back then were not feral hogs, but were farm raised hogs of the land owners. They were not necessarily kept in pen, but often ran loose. It is still common practice in many parts of the world. My great grand father was eaten by hogs after he accidental shot himself climbing over a fence, by domestic hogs. One point that hasn't been brought up is that peoples teeth were not as good back then as they are today due to lack of good dental hygiene, so the teeth could not take the pressure. The NORMAL man can not excert enough force to bite almost all the way through a soft lead bullet even today. Sure, they would bite or chew on bullets, but that would not come close to crushing the bullet. Even today, most of the people with the best of teeth can't come close to biting through a lead bullet. I have raised hogs most of my life, and have seen numerous things chewed on by hogs, and for the most part does look like a person did the chewing, but with more force. I'm not saying that there are bullets that have not been used for the reasons stated, in fact, I'm sure some have. But the vast majority are the result of animals doing the chewing. I will be very curious to see what the dentist has to say on Monday.

 

[{Sentinel}]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

Feral hog's are domestic hogs that have turned wild. Most of the hogs back then were not feral hogs, but were farm raised hogs of the land owners. They were not necessarily kept in pen, but often ran loose. It is still common practice in many parts of the world. My great grand father was eaten by hogs after he accidental shot himself climbing over a fence, by domestic hogs. One point that hasn't been brought up is that peoples teeth were not as good back then as they are today due to lack of good dental hygiene, so the teeth could not take the pressure. The NORMAL man can not excert enough force to bite almost all the way through a soft lead bullet even today. Sure, they would bite or chew on bullets, but that would not come close to crushing the bullet. Even today, most of the people with the best of teeth can't come close to biting through a lead bullet. I have raised hogs most of my life, and have seen numerous things chewed on by hogs, and for the most part does look like a person did the chewing, but with more force. I'm not saying that there are bullets that have not been used for the reasons stated, in fact, I'm sure some have. But the vast majority are the result of animals doing the chewing. I will be very curious to see what the dentist has to say on Monday.

Hey Piggman, nobody was contending that men could "crush" or "bite throught" the soft lead bullets....only that they WERE chewed on by the common soldier. My brother-in-law has raised hogs, I am from the Deep South, Southern Georgia, so I am VERY well aquainted with hogs and pigs. And I do agree with you that some feral hogs have chewed on leftover minies. However, for instance, in the part of Virginia I live in, Peninsula Virgnia, there are no feral hogs and we have found lots and lots of chewed on muskets and minies. I have to disagree though as I believe that the majority of these are from soldiers biting on the bullets. There were millions of bullets fired and hundreds of thousands of soldiers in the direct vicinity, however, if there were feral hogs and there were and are; they were not in the hundreds of thousands like the soldiers. Therefore, shear statistics would suggest that the majority of these would have been biten by men. I also agree with you that some had rotten teeth, but many actually did take care of their teeth and as proven by my pictures above, it doesnt take much force, bad teeth or not, to leave a minie or musket looking mangled. I only bit on that bullet for a few seconds. Imagine biting on one for an hour or two. it would be almost flattened. I really enjoy your posts and think that you are alot like me, I REALLY love your avatar saying about how you "dont mind progress but civilzation sucks" I agree one hundred percent b/c I love the woods and seeing trees, instead of a bunch of concrete!!!!

 

[piggman1]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

Thanks on the compliment. I was just throwing in my 2 cents worth, and I have heard both sides to this discussion before. We don't have anything as far as wars go, to that magnitude down here. You boys got the brunt of it. So, I am going to have to stay neutral on this fence because I can only go on what I've seen and read, and that goes both directions. I do know that down here where we do have lots of hogs, that you can find bullets and other small items that are chewed up like that. And they look like it has been done by people. But as far as this one goes, I think I'll stay out of it. By the way, great aviator you've got.

 

[tymcmurray]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

Here is the updated photo of the cannonball fragment all cleaned up.

 

[Kas]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat UPDATED cannonball photo

I think this conversation would have been better left to, I found a chewed bullet, period. No one can provide proof either way as to this specfic bullets coming to having been chewed by man or beast.

 

[Demrok]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat UPDATED cannonball photo

Damn! That Cannon ball cleaned up pretty well! =D

And as far as the whole debate about chewing on bullets..

Sure I am POSITIVE that soldiers put them in their mouths and chewed them, Daryl admitted that too. But they never ever put the huge dents and marks in them like that are shown in the first pic. Would they have been used in place of a strap during a medical procedure, sure! Would there be marks? Definitely, and they'd look like the tiny little pits that you proved in the pictures you posted of you biting on one. I think if you found an actual "medicine bullet" it'd have tiny pitted teeth marks, not long gashes all over the bullet.

In any case, get out there and find the rest of the CB ^_~

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

I cant hardly wait to see the clean pics....So cool....

The cannonball is my first try at electrolysis.
I'm a little suprised at how easy and how well
it works.

Ty,
That cannonball cleaned up great with the electrolysis.
Can you PM me with instructions on how to set something like that up, or is there a web site you got that from? I know Josh does the same with his finds. I have a pile I'd like to get clean myself. Thanks.
And oh yah, can you tell me a 2nd time about how you found the bullet with your Tesoro, while the White's was down for the count. I love that part.
-MM-
(A Tesoro lover)

 

[piggman1]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

I cant hardly wait to see the clean pics....So cool....

The cannonball is my first try at electrolysis.
I'm a little suprised at how easy and how well
it works.

Ty,
That cannonball cleaned up great with the electrolysis.
Can you PM me with instructions on how to set something like that up, or is there a web site you got that from? I know Josh does the same with his finds. I have a pile I'd like to get clean myself. Thanks.
And oh yah, can you tell me a 2nd time about how you found the bullet with your Tesoro, while the White's was down for the count. I love that part.
-MM-
(A Tesoro lover)

That cleaned up real nice. GREAT FIND! If you don't mind, would you post or send me the same procedure? Thanks

 

[haboo]

Re: Antietam gives up a tasty treat

I cant hardly wait to see the clean pics....So cool....

The cannonball is my first try at electrolysis.
I'm a little suprised at how easy and how well
it works.

Ty,
That cannonball cleaned up great with the electrolysis.
Can you PM me with instructions on how to set something like that up, or is there a web site you got that from? I know Josh does the same with his finds. I have a pile I'd like to get clean myself. Thanks.
And oh yah, can you tell me a 2nd time about how you found the bullet with your Tesoro, while the White's was down for the count. I love that part.
-MM-
(A Tesoro lover)

That cleaned up real nice. GREAT FIND! If you don't mind, would you post or send me the same procedure? Thanks

Here a good link on how to build a electrolysis cleaner......just tried it out myself a few weeks ago....and have to admit it does a great job. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,10898.0.html