Antique Andirons Found, How Old, etc. ?

[Michigan Badger]

Found these at a very old location above ground. I washed them off hoping they were brass but the patina is so deep and dark I left them alone.

I can see where they hand filed the seams on the balls when they were made.

Each has the number 22.

What can you tell me about these?

Thanks,

Badger

 

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[Lucas]

Hmmm... tough one.

Most 20th c. copies have a curved back piece where the log rests. 18th c. wouldn't have the mold mark (22), so 19th c?

 

[diggummup]

Here is an excerpt from something I found to help determine the age possibly. Hope it helps.
http://www.evestoneantiques.com/docs/hearthMasterpieces.htm

Given the considerable exchange of trade between England and America, and knowing that American founders commonly copied fashionable British patterns and style, how is today’s collector to distinguish between English and American andirons? Typically, 18th and 19th century English pieces had a wrought, tapered internal iron rod, square in section and shoulder near the lower end. Firedogs made of iron were often fronted with brass, and occasionally, enamel or brass. Some of the designs popular in 18th century andiron came from English metal workers, particularly in the last quarter of the century, who had used similar designs such as baluster shapes with spiral twists, on silver coffeepots and brass candlesticks.

In America, it was standard to make hollow castings in both centuries. Brass parts were cast in sand flasks, the legs were cast solid and urn-shaped finials, columns, and plinths cast as hollow, vertical halves then brazed together. Curved billet bars, or dogs, were listed as circular in 19th century American founders inventories, and may have been used to increase radiated heat. The principal centers for American andiron production were Philadelphia, New York, and Boston. Some pieces are stamped with the maker’s surnames or initials, some are stamped with a number probably referring to a size or pattern, and other markings have been all or partially erased by decades of intense heat. Frequently, small parts were coded to prevent confusion during assembly. Typically, the codes appear as a series of punched dots, filed grooves, or engraved lines. Andirons were also coded according to size, which determined price. The larger the andirons, the greater the weight of the brass, and therefore, the most expensive.

Unfortunately, very few andirons bear the makers names, and predictably, those exceptions command higher prices. Collectors should be aware that many pairs have been reworked over the years, and they should always disassemble andirons for thorough examination. Experienced enthusiasts check to make sure the interior post, where the top piece is screwed into the bottom, is hand filed on its edges, as only antique pieces should be. With brass andirons, it’s advisable to place the pair face to face, checking to make sure the width and spread of the feet are equal. The same exercise should be done to check height. Additionally, the collector should place the pair together, back leg to back leg, to confirm they are the same length and have not been cut down. Caution must be used when disassembling andirons, because the threads can become corroded over time and the inner bar twisted off. Stylistically, reproductions are easily recognizable to the trained eye.

 

[Lucas]

These are solid 3 piece construction, and look like cast iron ( ). The 22 is a casting mark, not a stamped number as described in the (very cool) article.

If pre-1900, chances are the thread size will not match any modern size. Modern nuts will have the same pitch but be too small.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Thanks much guys!

One thing is for sure, these were hand filed all over. The filings are very old due to old patina in them.
I'll post more closeup photos later.

The globes are hollow and are slightly out-of-round. They're seamed and filed. The legs (log holders) are also heavily filed.

These almost have to be at least 19th century I would think.

The photo below shows some of the filing marks. It also shows better some of the green and multi-color patina that I love on these old items.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Thanks Lucas and diggummup for your help.

Badger