ANYONE HERE EVER SEARCH FOR THE LOST BOWIE OR LOST BEN SUBLETT MINE??

[Shaw]

According to the Texas Speleological Society, Culberson County has roughly 573 recorded caves and possible caves. That's quite a pile of hay to search through. Then you have to consider the possibility of Reeves County and or even Eddy County NM.

That is a lot of exploring to do.

It would not surprise me if there was double that number. I am also betting that there is a reason no one has found it yet, its probably a covered opening or a place most would not look. Also there has to be some spots located closer like Joe says for quick trips.

I would love to see someone find it in my lifetime.

 

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[Shaw]

THEIR BODIES ARE BURIED IN THE DUST, BUT THEIR NAMES SHALL LIVE TO RENEW

 

[hollywould]

Well, personal opinion has me thinking Ben hauled the gold out of the Guadalupe's, then stashed his loot somewhere around Red Bluff. Thinking that would be a great stop for his horses and to make camp. Plenty of game around for food, lake/river for fresh water, etc... From Odessa to Red Bluff would probably be a "few days".

If so, this would put him entering the range around McKittrick Canyon. So my guess would be Frijole Ridge. Around into the McKittrick Canyon, pass the few bends, and right around where the 2 rivers meet. Haul back out, stash at Red Bluff, back and forth a few times for spending cash, then repeat.

I'd be down for a trip. Spent a lot of time up in Ruidoso when I was a little boy. Remember being at camp and one of our daily outing choices was panning. None of us knew enough to do just about anything. But every other day some kid was pulling a pinky nail size nugget out of the river bed. Nothing like the excitement created from possibility!

 

[lastleg]

To my friend Jeep:

Have you been able to determine the state (manner) of gold that
Sublett displayed?

lastleg

 

[Jeep]

Sent you a PM

 

[czachary]

Sent you a PM

Did anyone ever go searching for this?

In site of GP can cover vast areas!
I definitely agree with the multiple stashes, he probably hid in the mountains.

I heard stories of it being in a slot canyon near the bottom, and also a dry creek bed. Hydrothermal activity obviously was involved. Start around all the igneous locations, locate some intrusions. Maybe take a gold pan to dry creek beds and if you have luck, then head up from there. Could have easily eroded away some from the mountains to the stream.....?


His tombstone makes me think of maybe some old burial sites in the area hold clues?

 

[czachary]

THEIR BODIES ARE BURIED IN THE DUST, BUT THEIR NAMES SHALL LIVE TO RENEW

Anyone still interested in this at all? No comments in a while, i am wanting to head to Guadalupe this spring for some "hiking"


Ben's story I believe happen in the late 1800's say 1870 +
Apache's were raiding through out the early 1800's...I wonder if this could be a cave where indians caches the loot

Here is a story just before Ben found whatever he found of indian attacks... and the gravestone is still there of Jose Maria Polancio


several written tales of indians attacking 158 years later, scout's death near Guadalupe Mountains still a mystery


While traveling Highway 62-180 to El Paso, many people are thinking about the beautiful scenery near the mountains and not about what might have taken place in the area in the mid 1800s.

A solitary gravesite remains under the watchful eye of El Capitan on private ranch land not far from the boundary of Guadalupe Mountains National Park. The occupant of this grave, shrouded by vegetation, is Jose Maria Polancio, an infantry guide for Capt. James Longstreet of the 8th Infantry.

The out-of-sight grave is in close proximity to the east side of the well-traveled highway as it transects Guadalupe Canyon.
Jose Maria Polancio s headstone (a little left of center) is a thin limestone oblong rock located in Guadalupe Canyon. His actual grave is surrounded by
Jose Maria Polancio s headstone (a little left of center) is a thin limestone oblong rock located in Guadalupe Canyon. His actual grave is surrounded by smaller rocks. As seen in the photo, the grave is in relatively close proximity to El Capitan in the Guadalupe Mountains. (Photos by Valerie Cranston Current-Argus)

Following the end of the Mexican-American War and recovery from a wound, Longstreet served in frontier duty in Texas, performing scouting missions. First at Ft. Martin Scott near Fredericksburg and then Fort Bliss in El Paso.

Polancio was killed by the native people in February 1855. Not much is known about his life before he became an infantry guide, but rumor has it he was of Mexican and Apache descent.

It wasn't the circumstances surrounding his death that were so unusual. What was intriguing were the events that followed. He was found dead with seven arrows in his naked body by one of the infantry men. His body was later found again after being dug up, scalped, stripped of clothing and shot with arrows again.

Following Polancio's death, Longstreet wrote a lengthy letter to the colonel in command dated Feb. 17, 1855, explaining the fate of his guide. The letter was sent to the Department of New Mexico. The contents of the letter are summarized and quoted below.
Jan. 24, 1855

"My orders were to operate between the Hueco Tanks and the Guadalupe Mountains and cooperate, if occasion offered, with Capt. Ewell or Major Simonson, or both," wrote Longstreet.
Jose Maria Polancio was a guide for Capt. James Longstreet of the 8th Infantry in 1855. He was of Mexican and Apache descent. The inscription on the
Jose Maria Polancio was a guide for Capt. James Longstreet of the 8th Infantry in 1855. He was of Mexican and Apache descent. The inscription on the headstone reads: Jose Maria Polancio Guide Killed Feb. 1855 By Indians.

"On the 24th ult. (month prior) I marched with Companies I & K of this post, total strength 54, including one musician, Capt. Holloway and Lt. Follett," he wrote, noting Holloway and Follett were also officers of the command.
Jan. 25, 1855

Wagons pulled by teams of mules were heavily loaded down. After traveling two hours on bad roads, Longstreet met Polancio for the first time.
Jan. 26, 1855

On the morning of the 26th, Polancio and two non-commissioned officers mounted horses and rode ahead as an advance party.
Jan. 27-28, 1855

Longstreet had to repair places in the road so his mules could pull the wagons. His mules began to fail that day and again the next day.
Jan. 29, 1855

During the afternoon of the 29th, he discovered smoke in the direction of the Guadalupe Mountains or beyond. Late afternoon one of the officers in the advance party came back and reported a large trail met and followed the road.

"It appeared to be the trail of about 40 cattle driven by eight or 10 Indians," Longstreet wrote, adding the guide told him he thought the party was at the water source ahead of them.

"I made arrangements for attacking them at once; and with the hope of surprising them I marched down to the water by moonlight, leaving wagons behind," he wrote, noting his disappointment that the Indians had gone in the direction of the mountains.

Polancio still thought the Indians were only a few miles away. Longstreet ordered Lt. Follett and 12 non-commissioned officers and men, along with Polancio, to follow the trail to find out at first light the whereabouts of the Indians. Longstreet did not want them to attack, if at all possible, until he could join them.

About 10 p.m. that night, Longstreet received word that the patrol had followed the Indians' trail into the mountains about 6 miles from the water source. Longstreet sent food and water along with orders. Again, he wanted the men to stay put until he joined them.
Jan. 30, 1955

Longstreet began the task of preparing rations for six days and filling canteens with water. He left camp in the middle of the night hoping to reach the mountains by first light.

"We found, of course, that the Indians had taken the roughest parts of the mountains, frequently crossing them where footmen could scarcely climb," Longstreet wrote.

By nightfall the men were out of water. Longstreet wanted to march by moonlight in search of water, however, the men were exhausted. They rested in a pinery on top of one of the highest mountains in the range.

"I called up the guide and asked him the prospects of getting water on the trail," he wrote. "He said that I might find it in 24 miles but that he was not certain that I would.

"I at once determined to turn back at daylight in the morning and sent my mounted men back at once to have water sent out in the canteens to meet us," he wrote, adding his intention was to move around the mountains and take up the Indians' trail in hopes of finding the cattle.
Jan. 31, 1855

Not long after leaving camp, Longstreet and the men came to a deep, sandy area. In a short time the mules tired, giving completely out. He had to use other mules to haul the wagon back to camp, traveling only 12 miles that day.
Feb. 1, 1855

This day was a repeat of the day before. Mules tiring, giving out and other mules sent back for the wagons. They traveled only 9 miles this day. Camp was set up at the first spring in the Guadalupe Mountains.

"Here I abandoned all hope of being able to reach the trail at all and resolved to wait for Capt. Ewell or Major Simonson," Longstreet wrote.

Polancio went missing that afternoon and some of the men thought the Indians had killed him. Others just thought he left and returned home.

"I had given him a scolding the day before for leaving the two mounted men and the men who were with him," Longstreet wrote, adding he supposed he frightened Polancio and he had run off.
Feb. 2-4, 1855

The morning of Feb. 2, Longstreet ordered a sergeant and six men to track the guide's trail and see if they could determine what really happened to him. The sergeant later reported he found his tracks and it appeared Polancio had turned at the point of the mountain and come in.

Late afternoon, one of the men came to Longstreet's tent and reported that the naked body of Polancio was lying on the mountain side near the spring.

"Lt. Follett and I went up and found the dead body stripped and pierced with seven arrow wounds. I had it taken to camp and buried," Longstreet wrote. "We could arrive at no satisfactory conclusion as to how the Indians got upon him. They must have ambushed him, I supposed."
Feb. 5, 1855

This day Longstreet sent out a party of men to look for a more suitable place to camp. Wood was scarce at the present camp. That afternoon the men returned reporting they had found a spring, plenty of timber and grass some 7 miles ahead.
Feb. 6-8, 1855

Longstreet moved his company to the area with a spring and plenty of timber.
Feb. 9-10, 1855

Major Simonson and his party rode into Longstreet's camp. He immediately shared with Simonson all of the Indian news he had.

"A party of his that came through my old camp reported that the Indians had been to my camp after I left it and taken up the body of the guide, scalped it and robbed it of the buffalo robe that was around it and shot fresh arrows into it," wrote Longstreet. "I urged the major to take up and follow the trail that I had been obliged to abandon.

"I assured him that there was scarcely a doubt but he would be able to overtake and punish the Indians," he wrote.

Longstreet tried to get Simonson and his party to follow the Indians' trail into the mountains where he was sure they all were holed up. He offered rations and water. Simonson, at first, expressed a willingness to cooperate, however, in the end he decided he would rather go to Delaware Creek if he did not cross another trail before arriving there.

"So I reloaded my wagons, took my leave of the Major and took up the march for my post," he wrote.

"I am, Sir, very respectfully, Your Most Obt. Servant. James Longstreet. Capt. 8th Inf. 3t. Major," Longstreet wrote, signing off on his letter to the colonel at the post.

The thin limestone marker at the head of Polancio's grave in Guadalupe Canyon reads: "Jose Maria Polancio -- Guide -- Killed Feb. -- 1855 -- By Indians."







....their bodies are buried in the dust, but their names shall live to renew...


I wonder what was Subletts job, what did he do in the spare time? Was there an army post in the area he was living? How friendly was he with the banker? how was he friendly with the indians or was he just really sneaky...?

 

[jbatir]

I guess everyone did lose interest, but that's the beauty of legends, they always come back to popular culture.

 

[austin]

There is no Lost Bowie Mine. there is Los Almagres near Packsaddle Mtn. It is pretty much filled in by the stuff taken from the "Boyd" shaft. I went on a field trip years ago with a UT geologist and historian. There is an interesting story in C. F. Eckhardt's book that explains Bowie's silver and explains the "grass fight". You won't believe me, it doesn't matter. Believe what you wish, search to your heart's content. It just doesn't exist. It's a Texas legend only...

 

[jbatir]

There is no Lost Bowie Mine. there is Los Almagres near Packsaddle Mtn. It is pretty much filled in by the stuff taken from the "Boyd" shaft. I went on a field trip years ago with a UT geologist and historian. There is an interesting story in C. F. Eckhardt's book that explains Bowie's silver and explains the "grass fight". You won't believe me, it doesn't matter. Believe what you wish, search to your heart's content. It just doesn't exist. It's a Texas legend only...

I'd be interested to hear it. And what about Sublett, anything the UT geologist had to say about that legend?

 

[coazon de oro]

There is no Lost Bowie Mine. there is Los Almagres near Packsaddle Mtn. It is pretty much filled in by the stuff taken from the "Boyd" shaft. I went on a field trip years ago with a UT geologist and historian. There is an interesting story in C. F. Eckhardt's book that explains Bowie's silver and explains the "grass fight". You won't believe me, it doesn't matter. Believe what you wish, search to your heart's content. It just doesn't exist. It's a Texas legend only...

Howdy austin,

I'm surprised that as a history teacher who taught in Uvalde, you are not aware of Jim Bowie's silver mine. It is not lost though, it was worked out, and is in private property. I have only seen a picture of it when that property was up for sale.
Texas Historical Marker - Silver Mine Pass

Homar

 

[ptlawhon]

Anyone still interested in this at all? No comments in a while, i am wanting to head to Guadalupe this spring for some "hiking"


Ben's story I believe happen in the late 1800's say 1870 +
Apache's were raiding through out the early 1800's...I wonder if this could be a cave where indians caches the loot

Here is a story just before Ben found whatever he found of indian attacks... and the gravestone is still there of Jose Maria Polancio


several written tales of indians attacking 158 years later, scout's death near Guadalupe Mountains still a mystery











While traveling Highway 62-180 to El Paso, many people are thinking about the beautiful scenery near the mountains and not about what might have taken place in the area in the mid 1800s.

A solitary gravesite remains under the watchful eye of El Capitan on private ranch land not far from the boundary of Guadalupe Mountains National Park. The occupant of this grave, shrouded by vegetation, is Jose Maria Polancio, an infantry guide for Capt. James Longstreet of the 8th Infantry.

The out-of-sight grave is in close proximity to the east side of the well-traveled highway as it transects Guadalupe Canyon.
Jose Maria Polancio s headstone (a little left of center) is a thin limestone oblong rock located in Guadalupe Canyon. His actual grave is surrounded by
Jose Maria Polancio s headstone (a little left of center) is a thin limestone oblong rock located in Guadalupe Canyon. His actual grave is surrounded by smaller rocks. As seen in the photo, the grave is in relatively close proximity to El Capitan in the Guadalupe Mountains. (Photos by Valerie Cranston Current-Argus)

Following the end of the Mexican-American War and recovery from a wound, Longstreet served in frontier duty in Texas, performing scouting missions. First at Ft. Martin Scott near Fredericksburg and then Fort Bliss in El Paso.

Polancio was killed by the native people in February 1855. Not much is known about his life before he became an infantry guide, but rumor has it he was of Mexican and Apache descent.

It wasn't the circumstances surrounding his death that were so unusual. What was intriguing were the events that followed. He was found dead with seven arrows in his naked body by one of the infantry men. His body was later found again after being dug up, scalped, stripped of clothing and shot with arrows again.

Following Polancio's death, Longstreet wrote a lengthy letter to the colonel in command dated Feb. 17, 1855, explaining the fate of his guide. The letter was sent to the Department of New Mexico. The contents of the letter are summarized and quoted below.
Jan. 24, 1855

"My orders were to operate between the Hueco Tanks and the Guadalupe Mountains and cooperate, if occasion offered, with Capt. Ewell or Major Simonson, or both," wrote Longstreet.
Jose Maria Polancio was a guide for Capt. James Longstreet of the 8th Infantry in 1855. He was of Mexican and Apache descent. The inscription on the
Jose Maria Polancio was a guide for Capt. James Longstreet of the 8th Infantry in 1855. He was of Mexican and Apache descent. The inscription on the headstone reads: Jose Maria Polancio Guide Killed Feb. 1855 By Indians.

"On the 24th ult. (month prior) I marched with Companies I & K of this post, total strength 54, including one musician, Capt. Holloway and Lt. Follett," he wrote, noting Holloway and Follett were also officers of the command.
Jan. 25, 1855

Wagons pulled by teams of mules were heavily loaded down. After traveling two hours on bad roads, Longstreet met Polancio for the first time.
Jan. 26, 1855

On the morning of the 26th, Polancio and two non-commissioned officers mounted horses and rode ahead as an advance party.
Jan. 27-28, 1855

Longstreet had to repair places in the road so his mules could pull the wagons. His mules began to fail that day and again the next day.
Jan. 29, 1855

During the afternoon of the 29th, he discovered smoke in the direction of the Guadalupe Mountains or beyond. Late afternoon one of the officers in the advance party came back and reported a large trail met and followed the road.

"It appeared to be the trail of about 40 cattle driven by eight or 10 Indians," Longstreet wrote, adding the guide told him he thought the party was at the water source ahead of them.

"I made arrangements for attacking them at once; and with the hope of surprising them I marched down to the water by moonlight, leaving wagons behind," he wrote, noting his disappointment that the Indians had gone in the direction of the mountains.

Polancio still thought the Indians were only a few miles away. Longstreet ordered Lt. Follett and 12 non-commissioned officers and men, along with Polancio, to follow the trail to find out at first light the whereabouts of the Indians. Longstreet did not want them to attack, if at all possible, until he could join them.

About 10 p.m. that night, Longstreet received word that the patrol had followed the Indians' trail into the mountains about 6 miles from the water source. Longstreet sent food and water along with orders. Again, he wanted the men to stay put until he joined them.
Jan. 30, 1955

Longstreet began the task of preparing rations for six days and filling canteens with water. He left camp in the middle of the night hoping to reach the mountains by first light.

"We found, of course, that the Indians had taken the roughest parts of the mountains, frequently crossing them where footmen could scarcely climb," Longstreet wrote.

By nightfall the men were out of water. Longstreet wanted to march by moonlight in search of water, however, the men were exhausted. They rested in a pinery on top of one of the highest mountains in the range.

"I called up the guide and asked him the prospects of getting water on the trail," he wrote. "He said that I might find it in 24 miles but that he was not certain that I would.

"I at once determined to turn back at daylight in the morning and sent my mounted men back at once to have water sent out in the canteens to meet us," he wrote, adding his intention was to move around the mountains and take up the Indians' trail in hopes of finding the cattle.
Jan. 31, 1855

Not long after leaving camp, Longstreet and the men came to a deep, sandy area. In a short time the mules tired, giving completely out. He had to use other mules to haul the wagon back to camp, traveling only 12 miles that day.
Feb. 1, 1855

This day was a repeat of the day before. Mules tiring, giving out and other mules sent back for the wagons. They traveled only 9 miles this day. Camp was set up at the first spring in the Guadalupe Mountains.

"Here I abandoned all hope of being able to reach the trail at all and resolved to wait for Capt. Ewell or Major Simonson," Longstreet wrote.

Polancio went missing that afternoon and some of the men thought the Indians had killed him. Others just thought he left and returned home.

"I had given him a scolding the day before for leaving the two mounted men and the men who were with him," Longstreet wrote, adding he supposed he frightened Polancio and he had run off.
Feb. 2-4, 1855

The morning of Feb. 2, Longstreet ordered a sergeant and six men to track the guide's trail and see if they could determine what really happened to him. The sergeant later reported he found his tracks and it appeared Polancio had turned at the point of the mountain and come in.

Late afternoon, one of the men came to Longstreet's tent and reported that the naked body of Polancio was lying on the mountain side near the spring.

"Lt. Follett and I went up and found the dead body stripped and pierced with seven arrow wounds. I had it taken to camp and buried," Longstreet wrote. "We could arrive at no satisfactory conclusion as to how the Indians got upon him. They must have ambushed him, I supposed."
Feb. 5, 1855

This day Longstreet sent out a party of men to look for a more suitable place to camp. Wood was scarce at the present camp. That afternoon the men returned reporting they had found a spring, plenty of timber and grass some 7 miles ahead.
Feb. 6-8, 1855

Longstreet moved his company to the area with a spring and plenty of timber.
Feb. 9-10, 1855

Major Simonson and his party rode into Longstreet's camp. He immediately shared with Simonson all of the Indian news he had.

"A party of his that came through my old camp reported that the Indians had been to my camp after I left it and taken up the body of the guide, scalped it and robbed it of the buffalo robe that was around it and shot fresh arrows into it," wrote Longstreet. "I urged the major to take up and follow the trail that I had been obliged to abandon.

"I assured him that there was scarcely a doubt but he would be able to overtake and punish the Indians," he wrote.

Longstreet tried to get Simonson and his party to follow the Indians' trail into the mountains where he was sure they all were holed up. He offered rations and water. Simonson, at first, expressed a willingness to cooperate, however, in the end he decided he would rather go to Delaware Creek if he did not cross another trail before arriving there.

"So I reloaded my wagons, took my leave of the Major and took up the march for my post," he wrote.

"I am, Sir, very respectfully, Your Most Obt. Servant. James Longstreet. Capt. 8th Inf. 3t. Major," Longstreet wrote, signing off on his letter to the colonel at the post.

The thin limestone marker at the head of Polancio's grave in Guadalupe Canyon reads: "Jose Maria Polancio -- Guide -- Killed Feb. -- 1855 -- By Indians."







....their bodies are buried in the dust, but their names shall live to renew...


I wonder what was Subletts job, what did he do in the spare time? Was there an army post in the area he was living? How friendly was he with the banker? how was he friendly with the indians or was he just really sneaky...?

did you make it there this spring? I might be interested in going the end of September or in October. have read all the stories and have several places in mind to look. there is also another story from the area.

 

[Joe(TX)]

I was the one who started this post/thread in 2009...looks like no one made the trip even just to explore?? Maybe someone went but just did not report going?? I always think about Ben Sublett and his gold cache....I haven't gone due to health reason....getting more serious about at least exploring the region....need to go before health issues get so bad that I can not go.....Anyone ever hike that area?? Joe

 

[Carlsbad Mike]

..................JUST WONDERING SINCE BOTH SITES ARE IN TEXAS!!.............The lost Ben Sublett mine is very interesting since there is proof that he did find gold and that also that he told/showed the mines location to at least 3 people who could not relocate the mine!!...................JOE

I'm thinking it could be in the Delaware mountains what does just east of the Guadalupe I'm going to go look I live in the area I've read all the stories I just wish I knew what area the Son thought it was in

 

[Carlsbad Mike]

I have hiked in different areas of the Guadalupe so I've been back in the kitchen Canyon all the way I've been up on top I've been to Devil's Hall

 

[GuadGuy]

I've looked for the Sublett mine on several occasions.

 

[secretgold]

Yes I am actively searching for this mine.

 

[GuadGuy]

As am I. I'll probably make another trip early October.

 

[Georgetown Texas T]

I am retired and available to go help anyone.

 

[GuadGuy]

A few pictures from my last trip.