Aquanut, Help Needed

[old man]

John, Is there any chance that you can enhance this picture with the linear object in it?? I was wondering if it could be dated Thanks

 

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[wvwildman]

nice cannon

 

[FindSomeGold]

The "linear object", huh? Haha...

 

[comfortably numb]

I would say an Old Cannon. And with the lack of incrustation I would say Bronze.

 

[old man]

I would say an Old Cannon. And with the lack of incrustation I would say Bronze.

Jeff, with the Dolphins on the object, I agree. I was just wondering if John could enhance the picture and someone might be able to date it or tell the Country of Origin. Thanks.

 

[Smithbrown]

Unfortunately you haven't got the parts of the cannon which are most likely to help identify it- the back of the cannon, with the cascabel button- shape is a good indicator- and the breech end where the coats of arms are usually cast. That said the dolphins do look like proper fish. But at this stage, bronze cannon, 16th to early 18th century, western Europe. Similiar to Dutch and Spanish guns rather than Portuguese, but that may just be because a lot of their bronze cannons have survived, many of them raised from shipwrecks.
Smithbrown

 

[Dell Winders]

Just some observations, if that will help. The muzzle doesn't seem to be flared and has only one band around it. The band does appear to have a repetitious design around it, which could identify it if the picture were clear. It's probably too large for a signal cannon. My guess is a swivel cannon even though it has trunnions. The bore, from the best I can see would probably handle a 3 lb ball. Dell

 

[Jolly Mon]

I am no munitions expert, and it is impossible to say for sure because of the lack of a full image, but the barrel looks relatively short for the bore diameter. There is a chance that piece might date from the 19th century. It actually looks more like a howitzer.


This image is of a bronze, model 1841 24 pndr. howitzer. Here is another:
This cannon actually came from the wreck of a Union gunboat. Howitzers like these were often mounted on steamboats pressed into military service during the Civil War.

It is just impossible to say from that image...

 

[old man]

This one looks close too. It's late 1500's to mid 1600's. The front of the barrel and the Dolphins kind of match up. I guess time will tell.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Smithbrown is the highly qualified expert here. I would look towards his valued input.

 

[Smithbrown]

Thanks for the flattering words, M4w!

It is difficult to tell size on cannons without anything to give scale, but there are a few pointers.

First very unlikely to be a swivel gun. It does appear to be too large for that and swivel guns don't need dolphins.

You can get dolphins on late 18th and early 19th century but they are a different profile- usually more square and without decoration- handles rather than dolphins. This example has more rounded profile and if you look very closely, they do appear to be in the shape of fish. As a rule of thumb, the more decorated your cannon, the earlier it is likely to be. (except for the earliest bronze cannons which can be very plain).

Not a howitzer. They are shorter guns with big calibre to length of gun. This one appears to be in the normal proportion for a regular cannon. And howitzers are more land guns than sea guns, although of course they get transported, so can end up in the sea.

I was not sure of the barrel is decorated or damaged. A straight rather than flared muzzle suggests earlier than later.

Finally your picture is a good match. Normal naval ordnance of a western European power with enough money to buy bronze guns in the 16-17th centuries. (But probably not Portugal or Venice).

Smithbrown

 

[old man]

Thanks for the flattering words, M4w!

It is difficult to tell size on cannons without anything to give scale, but there are a few pointers.

First very unlikely to be a swivel gun. It does appear to be too large for that and swivel guns don't need dolphins.

You can get dolphins on late 18th and early 19th century but they are a different profile- usually more square and without decoration- handles rather than dolphins. This example has more rounded profile and if you look very closely, they do appear to be in the shape of fish. As a rule of thumb, the more decorated your cannon, the earlier it is likely to be. (except for the earliest bronze cannons which can be very plain).

Not a howitzer. They are shorter guns with big calibre to length of gun. This one appears to be in the normal proportion for a regular cannon. And howitzers are more land guns than sea guns, although of course they get transported, so can end up in the sea.

I was not sure of the barrel is decorated or damaged. A straight rather than flared muzzle suggests earlier than later.

Finally your picture is a good match. Normal naval ordnance of a western European power with enough money to buy bronze guns in the 16-17th centuries. (But probably not Portugal or Venice).

Smithbrown

Smithbrown, Thank you for the expert advice. Like Mad4wrecks said, you are the expert around here. That's what I like about this site. Experts that know what they are doing, helping tadpoles like me.
Thanks Again.

 

[aquanut]

Old Man, My computer is down. I'm using Deb's so I just saw this. Here's a better version of the cannon.

 

[Dell Winders]

What A difference. Good work, John. Dell

 

[stevemc]

I agree, the dolphins are ornate and rounded. They look like the common duckbill dolphins type giving them their name. The one thing that does give it some size reference is the dolphins. They have to be large enough to get a human hand into, not that one would pick it up though. But that is the size of them. Sometimes larger. I suppose it was for a thick lifting strap. So if they were 6-8 or so inches, that would put this in the 6-7+ foot range. And that would make the bore 8-10 inches + or - a little. Medio? Calabrina? I do agree on the era, but there are so many things that were used for centuries, laying in sand and encrusted it is hard to pinpoint exactly. I agree it does look very similar to the type that old man posted a pic of.

 

[Southern_Digger]

Does anyone have a computer link to the Miami Herald Archives, pre-1966. There is an article with photos about the 10-ft bronze cannon (qty=2) found and placed in the Weston Hempstead boatyard, in Miami, Florida. The article dates 1964 or 1965. Those, iron cannon and an anchor set in that yard for over a year. On weekends, I would climb over them and look down the barrels for treasure. I was only age 10 or 11 then... Those guns had dolphin handles. Don't recall the age of the guns, but they are similar to those shown in this thread. Would be nice to establish a date. I was told they were sold to a famous restaurant in NY and were mounted near the entrance of that restaurant. Someone, in a previous thread, linked them to a collector in Miami who actully sells such items. However, those he had were definitely not them.