AT Pro Observation

[Jarl]

I noticed that I find more interesting things when I rely on the ID #'s more. A lot of people say, as with most detectors, don't rely on the numbers...just listen to the audio. Not saying that that is entirely untrue, but I think for me and the AT, it's the other way around, or at least 30% sound to 70% ID#'s. Or, it also seems like there are times that the AT operates both ways, where sound might give you the best hint to dig, and another time the ID# will. But anyone with an AT, if you haven't already done so...ignore the sound a little and pay attention to the ID#'s primarily. Whenever I am swinging and notice any slight repeat of a high number mixed in with low numbers, maybe like 20-40s with an 'occasional' 50-60-70 'ghosting' in there...I dig. I might dig more junk at first in that spot but it almost always turns out to be something more interesting when I do locate it. If you try this, notice that the sound often wont really tip you off enough, at least it doesn't for me. You'll find yourself spending more time picking at a small area...which is fine in my opinion, don't want to miss anything.

I guess to simplify, if you are swinging and hitting a bunch of irony 20-40's and you see a 'blip' of a 50-70, nothing that it seems to want to bang on, just try to assume that the machine is actually seeing something that you aren't 'hearing'. Try it...you might be surprised...that is, for those who mainly or only rely on sound.

 

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[liftloop]

what did you find when you gave it a try
to make you come to that kind of conclusion

some time audio wins it's really a numbers game and in full discretion you can still chews to dig
in other words the detector doesn't have to beep for you to find good targets

thanks you white's for coming up with that first
but thanks for the information get it..

 

[empty_pockets]

...Never relied on a meter.

 

[Msbeepbeep]

I don't have AT Pro. I get more info from the screen, the only thing I can tell you for sure I have found from the sound alone is silver, it's a very high pitch. Nickels and gold give no sound unless I want to dig every bottle cap and pop top man ever made, but they do come up on the screen with good identifying #'s.

 

[Eddie Current]

I use the ID sometimes when it is hot. The numbers are not as accurate as listening to the sounds, but my ears need a rest once in a while.

 

[Lifes A Garden...Dig IT]

I agree Jarl. When I hunt with my AT Pro, I too prefer the VDI's vs sounds. Now, on the otherhand, my Minelab Safari I would definately rather go by sound than VDI's because the sounds are so profound. To me the Pro doesn't really have that much change or range in audible tones while sweeping over targets regardless of quality of target. The Minelab screams like it's gonna lose it's mind while over a target (LOL). I love both detectors and am very happy with both detector's performances but don't see an audibible advantage on the AT Pro over monitoring the VDI's while detecting. Also, the Standard mode seems slow and sounds like a cheap slot machine where as the PRO mode kicks a$$ and sounds more reasonable. I have also found not too notch out or descriminate too much or you will be leaving good finds behind and will not be doing yourself justice.

 

[Jarl]

Thanks for the comments everyone! Please don't take me as a snob or know it all, but I just wanted to add to my reasoning with a little more information. I appreciate any input no matter what! Thanks again.

My convictions are founded, I believe in part, because on page 20 of the AT PRO owner's manual it states:

"The At Pro's Digital ID system provides a specific target value to help identify targets more precisely."

Next paragraph:

"The Digital Target ID is a more precise version of the Target ID Cursor in the Upper Scale". (I never rely on the 'cursor' because...it is somewhat 'cursory' like the tones...read on..)

Page 21 explains the following:

"TONE ID ... The Tone ID feature produces three distinct audible tones based on a target's metal type and conductivity." (This is exactly why I rely on the numbers quite often...because there are far more numbers (00-99) than tones (3). I don't completely ignore the tones, I simply take the numbers as a first clue, THEN listen for audio clues. This is during times when the tones aren't screaming and it appears I am wading through a lot of garbage. When the tones are strong and they agree with the ID, of course I always desire those moments, when it is nearly unmistakable that you are over a good target but it doesn't always happen. I might even swing a yard quickly just listening to all the good tones, dig those and go back over really slowly and switch my attention to the numbers more.

Maybe this isn't a good example for a bench test, because of the differences in conductivity, but observe the difference between a zinc and a copper penny. I tested a 1991 zinc against a 1979 copper(actually bronze) with the zinc ID'ing at +/-75 and the copper +/-81. Both have decent tones, with the exception of the zinc having more of a distorted and choppy tone(though anything trashy around a copper could produce distortion and tone chops btw), but the ID #'s are distinctively different. The point being, that three tones with or without distortion to me seems less of a primary clue than the 0-99 numbers are able to show. All of this is somewhat hypothetical though as we know ground conditions and target orientation etc etc., all weigh in on the given situation.

 

[dirtydig]

ok got to chime in, the pro for some reason works for me above others i have tried. i really believe its the individuals hunting style. i listen for the tone first if im in trash but if im in a low target area i look at the numbers and how they jump. i have been trying to teach my ears the difference between a pull tab and a nickle and dont laugh but depending on the positioning of the pull tab or nickle in the ground i can tell. the sound is different between the two if the tab is laying flat. also i agree with you concerning the vdi, i can see the jump without the sound and it has prompted me to dig when i might not have. i have pulled a relic from a bed of nails because i saw the jump but couldnt hear a tone. recently in a well hunted field i was finding brass rivets and buttons that others have missed because of the iron masking. im on my 4th set of batterys in my pro and now have confidence in it. i joked at the beginning that i thought the pro was a boat anchor. happy hunting to all!

 

[Jarl]

Thanks for chiming in dirtydig. You're right, position makes a huge difference. Three of the same type coins, positioned flat, north/south on edge and east/west on edge(using the same side-to-side swing on all of them) each one will show variation in ID#'s and tones. In the field, faced with unknowns and randomness, this test isn't failure proof, but it will help someone appreciate the subtleties of the machine and to hopefully be able to apply them in some situations. Three clad quarters I tested showed the following:

The ID#s:

Flat: 86
Edge North/South 83-92
Edge East/West 45-53*

*difficult to ascertain this range but still well below the other figures. Opens up the idea that some low(irony) ID#s may be decent targets.

As for the tones:

Flat: High tone, sharp, concise
North/South: High tone, gradual, wave like, slight delay relative to coil swing
East/West: Medium tone, occasional clipping and iron grunting, weaker than previous two

All theoretical of course...I hope it helps someone out there...especially myself lol!

Thanks for comments!

 

[liftloop]

my mxt hit real fast on copper,silver and it's sloes down on iron and if it is silver like a 1943 quarter if the number do jump they go high up the scale never below a quarter...
unless there iron a round then the numbers will be lower or if the copper is under a mineral rock it will bounce down and back up again.

yea
white's hit a home run when white's came up with that idea just goes to show you what a great company white's electronics is....it to bad they lost that technology
because they didn't have an employee resign there patten agreement and so it was leaked out and now all the detector companies copies it...

I wounder what Garret paid teknetics for that program and and what fisher paid and bounty hunter
Ooo Yea there all in cahoots with each other.


liftloop

 

[dirtydig]

this is the kind of talk we all need to better ourselves in the hobby, not the banter about what machine is better but concise conversation about the user techniques and manipulation. this hobby has a lot of scared people in it. some of us are afraid to let another in on the "secret", i include myself in this, as i have found myself holding back on information. in 1982 i got my first machine. the units were anolog back then and you spent a fare amount of time playing with dials and reajusting but it taught me how to hone the machine into a killer piece. the technology really hasnt changed that much.

 

[airscapes]

To the OP, if you take a read here.. This should be a required reading to buy a MD, it is 20 pages but has lots of pictures .. Truth About Search Coils
It will explain why you find the goodies .. once the trash is removed and the good target is unmasked..

 

[GreenHat]

Being new to metal detecting and being that the AT PRO is my first metal detector (which I am still learning), I try to use both equally. I also admittedly barely understand what either is telling me or ,.. I should say both the VDI and sounds are telling me more than I can translate. I have found that I do like the iron audio on the machine. I'll hit a high VDI then throw on the iron audio and if I am getting a lot of iron sound I know it's more than likely a large piece of iron or steel. Where I've been hunting is an old 1700s farm with civil war and revolutionary war history so I'm looking for more relics than coins and at this point in my observations, anything outside of coin sized objects vdi's seems to mean very little (someone correct me if I am wrong and then further elaborate to educate me a little) so the iron audio is useful, but I dig anything over 30 on that property anyhow. So as I am learning the machine I try to use both and gleen as much information from the machine as possible. I guess I am just confused by the ongoing "one or the other" debate. It seems you can get accurate real time information from both and yet one will tell you things the other can't. It seems, if instead of simply choosing one over the other and using/learning both won't you have more information? I just hate having to choose, but I like Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Toyota trucks if that tells you anything.

 

[airscapes]

Being new to metal detecting and being that the AT PRO is my first metal detector (which I am still learning), I try to use both equally. I also admittedly barely understand what either is telling me or ,.. I should say both the VDI and sounds are telling me more than I can translate. I have found that I do like the iron audio on the machine. I'll hit a high VDI then throw on the iron audio and if I am getting a lot of iron sound I know it's more than likely a large piece of iron or steel. Where I've been hunting is an old 1700s farm with civil war and revolutionary war history so I'm looking for more relics than coins and at this point in my observations, anything outside of coin sized objects vdi's seems to mean very little (someone correct me if I am wrong and then further elaborate to educate me a little) so the iron audio is useful, but I dig anything over 30 on that property anyhow. So as I am learning the machine I try to use both and gleen as much information from the machine as possible. I guess I am just confused by the ongoing "one or the other" debate. It seems you can get accurate real time information from both and yet one will tell you things the other can't. It seems, if instead of simply choosing one over the other and using/learning both won't you have more information? I just hate having to choose, but I like Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Toyota trucks if that tells you anything.

Read the article I posted above and you will have a much better understanding of what they are telling you..
BTW, they are telling you the same thing..

 

[Frankn]

I bet you use them both wheather you realize it or not! The sound gets your attention and then you check the screen.
I think my XLT has just about the best ID out there, sound, bar-graph, ID# and picture ID. The truth of the matter is I dig everything until I have a positive ID from repeat digs of a particular type of junk. Example: If I find 2 modern shell casings with the same ID#, I will ignore further hits of that # in that area. Frank...

 

[GreenHat]

Read the article I posted above and you will have a much better understanding of what they are telling you..
BTW, they are telling you the same thing..

I've read through page 9 and will finish it soon. I appreciate that, it's very informative. I understand in ways the VDI and tones are saying the same thing but at times one or the other helps to descriminate better.. right? For instance if I hit a large hunk of iron it could come up in the 90's on the VDI but.. with iron audio or whatever other audio tone a particular detector might have.. the tone could indicated that it is iron and not a silver coin ..right? Maybe I haven't yet read the portion of the article that discusses this.. I am justing thinking in abstract. Interested to hear your thoughts. Also thanks again for that article, that should be a sticky somewhere if it's not already.

 

[airscapes]

I've read through page 9 and will finish it soon. I appreciate that, it's very informative. I understand in ways the VDI and tones are saying the same thing but at times one or the other helps to descriminate better.. right? For instance if I hit a large hunk of iron it could come up in the 90's on the VDI but.. with iron audio or whatever other audio tone a particular detector might have.. the tone could indicated that it is iron and not a silver coin ..right? Maybe I haven't yet read the portion of the article that discusses this.. I am justing thinking in abstract. Interested to hear your thoughts. Also thanks again for that article, that should be a sticky somewhere if it's not already.

Yes, I agree, I don't use any discrimination on my machine, I want to hear the iron tone with the high tones, and yes it normally turns out to be old iron with a halo causing the high chirp in my experience. These are all tools to help you guess what is in the ground.. only way to know for sure is to dig it up.. That is a lot of info to suck in all at once.. I have actually read it 2 times and I am due for the third. Each time I read it i pick up something I missed.. This is another one about the Halo (good sounding target the goes away when you dig it up ) i.e. the Iron tone followed by a high tone or vise versa that is not a partially masked coin Halo Effect

 

[MrMikeJackie]

I guess it depends on the machine now doesn't it. If one machine only gives out say 3 to five tones then I would say yes your gonna rely more on your screen as it can be anything, now if puts out 15 tones then I can see tone alone stopping you in your tracks, especially a minelab etrac with its distinct tones. But in the end it doesn't matter anywho because if you have a screen you're gonna look at it regardless. And if someone says they don't look at their screen, we'll I'd say their fibbing.

 

[aliciakay1981]

51-52-51-52-51-52......dig (please be a ring) dig, dig.......dang another nickel