Atlantis

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

sorry Jose , Roy, they will just have to find another place for Tartessus. that is the remains of Atlantis, later called Azatlan. <- your choice of spelling.

Rebel, you forgot to menitoned that the areas of the glass beads are still way above normal background radiation. Also remember they also stated that they used Mercury as a power source ??

Regarding flight in ancient times don't forget the Piri Maps which show the Americas in a dimension that can only be explained as being from space and are quite correct before the ice age (tilting of the Earth's axis )

As for the myriads of 'oop' artifacts?? A hammer with a widen handle found inside of ?? meters of Granite - found while cutting the granite for building usage - impossible ,since contemporary science simply states that it was formed before life appeared upon our planet and also that granite is formed under high heat and pressure etc., soooo?

Enough for the moment,, many strange things happened to /Earth's 'earilar' inhabitants.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Oroblanco]

sorry Jose , Roy, they will just have to find another place for Tartessus. that is the remains of Atlantis, later called Azatlan. <- your choice of spelling.

Rebel, you forgot to menitoned that the areas of the glass beads are still way above normal background radiation. Also remember they also stated that they used Mercury as a power source ??

Regarding flight in ancient times don't forget the Piri Maps which show the Americas in a dimension that can only be explained as being from space and are quite correct before the ice age (tilting of the Earth's axis )

As for the myriads of 'oop' artifacts?? A hammer with a widen handle found inside of ?? meters of Granite - found while cutting the granite for building usage - impossible ,since contemporary science simply states that it was formed before life appeared upon our planet and also that granite is formed under high heat and pressure etc., soooo?

Enough for the moment,, many strange things happened to /Earth's 'earilar' inhabitants.

Don Jose de La Mancha

First point - the ruins found off Spain are almost certainly Tartessus/Tarshish. They date to the correct period, if memory serves, and it is located in the perfect spot to fit the ancient descriptions. Tartessus had a powerful navy, famous for their big and seaworthy ships (the ships of Tarshish mentioned in OT) but they also controlled the straits of Gibraltar and would not allow other countries to sail past without their permission. Carthage attacked and destroyed the city along with hired Celt mercenaries around 530 BC, and an earthquake caused a subsidence, but Punic settlers established Agadir <known as Gades to the Greeks> close by. This cannot be Atlantis, but is still a great discovery and may hold some amazing treasures.

Second point - these OOP-arts are not directly linked to Atlantis, neither are the evidences of an ancient nuclear war or explosion of some kind in the Indus valley. It is entirely speculation to link them.

Sorry amigo but Tartessus is no Atlantis, too well known and far too late in time to have been Atlantis. It is not even possible to link Tartessus to the Minoan collapse, for they were still around a thousand years later, and if memory serves, was only founded around 1200-1300 BC, after the empire of king Minos had fallen.

As to Aztlan, that is one version which will link to Atlantis, another version places their homeland of Chicomoztoc to the north, where there was an ancient inland sea with islands at one time. It is interesting and possible, some scholars feel that Aztlan and Atlantis are indeed the same place, but there are problems. Aren't there always?

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

PS for our readers, here is a map from Wiki showing the city-state of Tartessus (also spelled Tartessos)

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

as usual oro ya )_*& yer right hehehehe. Nah, Azatlan was part of Atlantis many thousands of years after Atlantis' loss, long before Tart---.. Plus the ancestors of the Aztecs came from the sinai ---- sabres Joe, you gonna let a little thing called DNA go between bosum buddies ? Where do you think the knowledge of silver working came from?? Aztlan ==<--Atlantis.

Don Jose d eLa Mancha

 

[Rebel - KGC]

sorry Jose , Roy, they will just have to find another place for Tartessus. that is the remains of Atlantis, later called Azatlan. <- your choice of spelling.

Rebel, you forgot to menitoned that the areas of the glass beads are still way above normal background radiation. Also remember they also stated that they used Mercury as a power source ??

Regarding flight in ancient times don't forget the Piri Maps which show the Americas in a dimension that can only be explained as being from space and are quite correct before the ice age (tilting of the Earth's axis )

As for the myriads of 'oop' artifacts?? A hammer with a widen handle found inside of ?? meters of Granite - found while cutting the granite for building usage - impossible ,since contemporary science simply states that it was formed before life appeared upon our planet and also that granite is formed under high heat and pressure etc., soooo?

Enough for the moment,, many strange things happened to /Earth's 'earilar' inhabitants.

Don Jose de La Mancha

THANKS "Real"... I can explain MERCURY/QUICK SILVER used for "fuel" from my "After-Life" experience; the crafts were demonstrated to me by my "kin" from FUTURE Time/Space. Mercury is used as fuel with "light" water (why you see the crafts sucking H2O from FRESH H2O ponds); flame is applied to MERCURY, spinning in a CLOCK-WISE direction, as a "LIFT" anti-gravity "thing". The CLOCK-WISE Spin is of POSITIVE Universal "God" Force; COUNTER-CLOCKWISE Spin (like a hurricane or tornado is DESTRUCTIVE/NEGATIVE "Force". HEAVY H20 is ATOMIC/NUCLEAR Bomb grade "material". More intense the flame, higher & FASTER the crafts "go"; OLD "models" are the "hard" TIME MACHINES & the NEWER "models" are Time/Space Machines that just materialize & dematerialize "in here", out there, into other dimensions (Time/Space). We live in a 10 dimensions MULT-VERSE, which SCIENCE is now "seeing", and NOW an 11th dimension is postulated; the 3rd, (dimension) is the beginning of "Heaven". In India of the "OLD Days", the Crafts were just TIME MACHINES (pop "in" and just fly around). HA! And NOW, for more RESTLESS days & nights... have a WONDERFUL 2014!

 

[dannyg]

Well im fairly convinced its there they did ground penetrating radar and found a seaport city with concentric rings and a temple at the middle they uncovered some small hand sized statues. And there was massive evidence of a tsunami lots of debri got sucked into the ocean when the wave went back out too from what i remember.

 

[dannyg]

I would like to hear more about tartessos though maybe a brig summary i dont believe ive hears of it before

 

[Oroblanco]

I would like to hear more about tartessos though maybe a brig summary i dont believe ive hears of it before

There is quite a bit online on Tartessus or Tartessos, aka Tarshish, just do a Google or Yahoo search. The ancient sources are somewhat slim, but interesting.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

See if you can get a copy of "Conquest by Man" by Paul Herrmann.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

See if you can get a copy of "Conquest by Man" by Paul Herrmann.

Good luck,

Joe

Got it, looks interesting, thank you for the suggestion! And for once, it was an easy one to find - heck you can download it for Kindle free.
Roy

 

[cactusjumper]

Hi Roy,

We got my mom a Kindle a while back and she is using it, just about, 24-7. Absolutely loves it.

There are a number of pages which give some insight into Tartessus. I don't think any of it actually has anything to do with Atlantis, but better men than me think they are one and the same.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Here seems to be a pretty good argument against the existence of Atlantis:

"But this and other catastrophes, which must have taken place during the earth's most recent past, since otherwise Plato's account could not have been so clear, must be geologically demonstrable and have left some traces on the globe. With this in view, a close examination was made of the Atlantic Ocean. In the eastern part, that is to say, where Atlantis is supposed to have lain, the ocean bed consists of an 11,500feet-thick layer of so-called pelagic red clay, a deposit composed mainly of the red shells of dead animal plankton. Since it is known that such a deposit takes a thousand years to reach a thickness of three-tenths of an inch, it follows that 500 million years would be needed to produce a sediment 11,500 feet thick. Unfortunately, therefore, there is no place for Atlantis here. And likewise, there is no place here for a moon that rose up out of the Ocean. For samples drawn up from the bed of the Ocean show irrefutably an alternation of plankton that requires cold water with plankton that only lives in warm water. In other words, these samples, which mirror the coming and going of the ice ages, show that the sediment strata have been entirely undisturbed. They could not have remained undisturbed, however, if the tremendous lunar spring tides of glacial cosmogony had really taken place during the prehistoric past. The sediment strata would show lasting traces of disturbance."

Source: Conquest of Man, Page 29

Take care,

Joe

​

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

Roy,

Here seems to be a pretty good argument against the existence of Atlantis:

"But this and other catastrophes, which must have taken place during the earth's most recent past, since otherwise Plato's account could not have been so clear, must be geologically demonstrable and have left some traces on the globe. With this in view, a close examination was made of the Atlantic Ocean. In the eastern part, that is to say, where Atlantis is supposed to have lain, the ocean bed consists of an 11,500feet-thick layer of so-called pelagic red clay, a deposit composed mainly of the red shells of dead animal plankton. Since it is known that such a deposit takes a thousand years to reach a thickness of three-tenths of an inch, it follows that 500 million years would be needed to produce a sediment 11,500 feet thick. Unfortunately, therefore, there is no place for Atlantis here. And likewise, there is no place here for a moon that rose up out of the Ocean. For samples drawn up from the bed of the Ocean show irrefutably an alternation of plankton that requires cold water with plankton that only lives in warm water. In other words, these samples, which mirror the coming and going of the ice ages, show that the sediment strata have been entirely undisturbed. They could not have remained undisturbed, however, if the tremendous lunar spring tides of glacial cosmogony had really taken place during the prehistoric past. The sediment strata would show lasting traces of disturbance."

Source: Conquest of Man, Page 29

Yes that would seem to be a good argument against the existence of Atlantis, and yet it is based on an assumption (that the pelgic red clay beds would show the disturbance and could thus be pinpointed like tree rings) which is not a proven fact.

To be fair, remember that was written in 1974, when the current dogma concerning climate changes (and for that matter, geologic changes, geographic change etc) were all extremely gradual. The idea of rapid climate changes, much less geographic change in a cataclysmic way, was viewed as impossible and heretical, even ridiculous. To some degree this attitude was due to a rather anti-Biblical bias among some scholars, who seem to have viewed any claim of a cataclysmic, sudden change to either climate or geography as someone claiming the Old Testament is literally true. In recent decades the evidence has swung the argument in the opposite direction - not that extremely slow, gradual change does not occur, clearly it does, but that cataclysmic, sudden changes also occur, and more frequently than is comfortable for the "old school" scholars.

We have covered part of this aspect before, but in particular the gigantic floods due to the release of huge ice dams in North America (and Asia) currently being termed "Meltwater Pulses" have been "discovered". Here is one example of an explanation, which I will add some further explanation for our readers

Meltwater discharge of the last deglaciation led to remarkable sea-level rise. Therefore, the reconstructed sea-level change from geological records is usually used to trace the rate and process of ice sheet melting. The last deglaciation extended from ~21 to ~6 ka B.P., *** corresponding with a sea-level rise of 120 m. with an average rate of 8 mm/a. In nature, sea-level does not rise at a constant rate. Coral records from the Barbados island cleraly demonstrate that the last deglaciation was punctuated by two episodes of accelrated ice sheet melting and rapid sea-level rising, viz MWP-1A (Melt-Water-Pulse) and MWP-1B intervals.

Chinese Science Bulletin, Sept 20008, Vol 53, No 18 pp 2868

***Where this extract says "~21 to ~6 ka BP" this means about 21000 to about 6000 years before present date; MWP obviously means Melt Water Pulse, which is what the geologists are calling the mass releases of melted ice which had formed gigantic inland lakes in North America and Asia; where it says "120 m" this means 120 meters or about 393 FEET of sudden sea level rises, and the part which says "8mm/a" means 8 millimeters per year, or just over three tenths of an inch rise as an average, but this is an averaged figure, the sea level rise was NOT at a constant rate but very erratic with those two huge increases which correspond to the two melt water pulses, as documented in the Barbados island coral formations. Coral only forms at a set depth in the sea, so when the sea level changes suddenly, if it is too deep, coral stops forming where it had been and starts growing in the new area of the sea where the depth is right.

For our readers, the Discovery channel recently had an interesting article presenting a simplified case saying that Atlantis could be real:
http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/c...u find the treasures that you seek. Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I believe the information was updated December 20, 2013. Don't believe the science for ooze has changed that much.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

I believe the information was updated December 20, 2013. Don't believe the science for ooze has changed that much.

Take care,

Joe

I believe the book was copyrighted 1954, and then reprinted, not updated. Dec 20, 2013 is just a few weeks ago. And the science for ooze had indeed advanced since 1954, and 1974.

Roy

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I was talking about the data, not the book. Don't believe it has changed that much, but I could be wrong.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

You wrote: "To be fair, remember that was written in 1974, when the current dogma concerning climate changes (and for that matter, geologic changes, geographic change etc) were all extremely gradual. The idea of rapid climate changes, much less geographic change in a cataclysmic way, was viewed as impossible and heretical, even ridiculous. To some degree this attitude was due to a rather anti-Biblical bias among some scholars, who seem to have viewed any claim of a cataclysmic, sudden change to either climate or geography as someone claiming the Old Testament is literally true. In recent decades the evidence has swung the argument in the opposite direction - not that extremely slow, gradual change does not occur, clearly it does, but that cataclysmic, sudden changes also occur, and more frequently than is comfortable for the "old school" scholars."

I'm not sure that "dogma" is correct when referring to a scientific physical measurement. It seems more appropriate for a theory.

Can you cite a source that indicates that my quote from Conquest of Man, Page 29 might no longer be valid? Since we are dealing with a time span of 500 million years, could the facts of the matter be changed significantly enough to change the conclusions of the author?

500 million years seems to remove man from the equation, and by extension.....Atllantis.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

You wrote: "To be fair, remember that was written in 1974, when the current dogma concerning climate changes (and for that matter, geologic changes, geographic change etc) were all extremely gradual. The idea of rapid climate changes, much less geographic change in a cataclysmic way, was viewed as impossible and heretical, even ridiculous. To some degree this attitude was due to a rather anti-Biblical bias among some scholars, who seem to have viewed any claim of a cataclysmic, sudden change to either climate or geography as someone claiming the Old Testament is literally true. In recent decades the evidence has swung the argument in the opposite direction - not that extremely slow, gradual change does not occur, clearly it does, but that cataclysmic, sudden changes also occur, and more frequently than is comfortable for the "old school" scholars."

I'm not sure that "dogma" is correct when referring to a scientific physical measurement. It seems more appropriate for a theory.

Can you cite a source that indicates that my quote from Conquest of Man, Page 29 might no longer be valid? Since we are dealing with a time span of 500 million years, could the facts of the matter be changed significantly enough to change the conclusions of the author?

500 million years seems to remove man from the equation, and by extension.....Atllantis.

Take care,

Joe

Joe - the information on page 29, was published circa 1954, and as far as I can determine, was never updated or changed. In fact there are reprints of the same book dated 2011, and again it is only as far as I can tell, as I do not have the 2011 reprint, it is the identical book, even says in the opening portion that the book is an OCR scanned reprint so may have some errors.

The clay beds in question show NO evidence of some KNOWN events, which Hermann assumes MUST show if they ever happened. I only have a moment right now but will hunt up what you desire, or if you do not wish to wait, just a quick search online for volcanic island collapses, tsunamis, Atlantic ocean should turn up the known incidents affecting the area, even re-shaping some of the Bahama islands. Here is one example of such a study:
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/hazards/publications/ref0541_lockridge.pdf

May be a better search term to include "catastrophic collapse", as happens with some volcanic islands including the Hawaiian islands. The clay beds show zero evidence of these events which made tidal waves so powerful it threw blocks of coral stone the size of houses far inland.

When Paul Hermann was writing this interesting book, many pieces of evidence had not yet been discovered, like the man-made tools etc found at the bottom of the English channel, or the layer of freshwater molluscs fossils found in 6000 feet of water in the area of the mid-Atlantic ridge. So I still think that had Hermann had access to the current info and data, he would reconsider his argument.

Roy

PS that 1974 I highlighted was in error, this happens when I forget my glasses! I will try to remember to correct that later, along with a link I posted that is not working.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I have no problem with the fact that a "catastrophic collapse" or some other natural event may have occurred which could have destroyed a place like Atlantis, or did destroy other ancient cities/islands, such as Thera. The problem comes with undisturbed ooze that took 500 million years to create to a depth of 11,500 feet thick. When considered against Mother Earth's overall timetable, there is not a ripple on the surface of the ocean bed anywhere close to where Atlantis was said to be......the Atlantic Ocean.

The site you provided, while interesting, did not give any evidence to refute Paul Herrmann's statement. I will keep looking for something that does.

Hope you, Beth and the pups are all keeping toasty warm.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

I have no problem with the fact that a "catastrophic collapse" or some other natural event may have occurred which could have destroyed a place like Atlantis, or did destroy other ancient cities/islands, such as Thera. The problem comes with undisturbed ooze that took 500 million years to create to a depth of 11,500 feet thick. When considered against Mother Earth's overall timetable, there is not a ripple on the surface of the ocean bed anywhere close to where Atlantis was said to be......the Atlantic Ocean.

The site you provided, while interesting, did not give any evidence to refute Paul Herrmann's statement. I will keep looking for something that does.

Hope you, Beth and the pups are all keeping toasty warm.

Take care,

Joe

I understand your point amigo but am not able to phrase the reply clearly.

Here is an extract which does a better job than I have:

TESTIMONY OF SEA FAUNA AND FLORA

Strong evidence indicating the rise and fall of the seafloor more than three miles at a time are the fossilized remains of marine plants and animals. This evidence proves that it is not impossible for large areas of mid-ocean seafloor to have been elevated to the point of becoming dry land, before subsequently subsiding to depths of three miles or more. And this can happen almost over night, geological speaking.
For instance, while exploring the Wyville Thomson Ridge (between Iceland and the Orkney Islands), the Norwegian Polar Expedition (1893-1896), led by Fridtjof Nansen, found large quantities of shells and otoliths of sea animals normally inhabiting only shallow waters. They were found in the seabed at about 72°N Latitude at depths approximating one thousand meters (3300 feet), and onward to the south at depths of twenty-five hundred meters (8200 feet). (Nansen, 1900-1903)

His conclusion was that these areas of the North Atlantic must have dropped thousands of feet (almost two miles in some cases) very suddenly, otherwise the shallow-sea animals would have had time to escape to the continental shelf. This did not take place millions of years ago—the time-frame for the subsidence was determined to be not more than 12,000 years ago (i.e., the Recent Epoch).

In the early 1900s the newly built German research vessel Gauss was launched on its first expedition to study the South Atlantic seafloor. The expedition made significant discoveries to the south of our proposed location for Atlantis. Cores were obtained containing sand, granite, gneiss and chrystalline schist—all continental materials. Layer "b" also contained minerals forming hypersthenic gneiss (i.e., continental rocks). (Zhirkov, 1958)

Subsequent investigation performed by the Swedish oceanographic research vessel Albatross corroborated these earlier finds: the bottom layer included fossilized remains of benthomic foraminiferra that can only live in depths of 100 to 200 metres. Cores taken at "depths between 2000 and 4000m" (1.25 and 2.5 miles respectively) contained shallow-water globigerina ooze! The conclusion was that the area within the Romanche Deep (one of the deepest parts of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge) had first risen 1000m, then subsided a shocking 6000m—almost three and a half miles! (Pettersson, 1946)

Red-clay (a light detrital material from the continents) and calcarous ooze (calcium carbonate from the decomposed skeletons of billions of microorganisms) was deposited along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge during the Quaternary period. The report by Sclater & Tapscott (1979) states that the calcarous ooze is most predominate near the crest of the Ridge.

In 1957, Dr. Rene Malaise of the Riks Museum in Stockholm announced that a colleague, Dr. R. W. Kolbe, had found proof of the geologically recent subsidence of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. Dr. Kolbe of the Swedish Museum of Natural History had been commissioned to investigate diatoms found in deep-sea cores obtained during the 1947-1948 Swedish Deep-Sea Expedition. Although the expedition included a globe-encircling study, only those cores taken from the Mid-Atlantic Ridge yielded the following: multitudinous shells of fresh-water diatoms (small lake animals) and fossilized remains of terrestrial plants (Kolbe, 1957). Let me repeat that. Land plants and fresh-water animals were found fossilized on the Atlantic Ocean bottom along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. (See also Kolbe, 1958)

Dr. Malaise theorized that parts of the Ridge must have existed as large islands up to the end of the last Ice Age or later: i.e., as recently as 10,000-12,000 years ago. He also theorized that these landmasses must have had fresh-water lakes in order to account for the existence of fresh-water animals (Malaise, 1956).* Commenting on Malaise' theory, Kolbe writes: ". . . it provides a natural explanation of the layer consisting exclusively of fresh-water diatoms, which is otherwise difficult to comprehend" (Kolbe, 1957).

The six levels of terraces discovered by the Woods Hole expeditions suggest that the Atlantic island was constantly changing shape—as well as being reduced in size—before it finally disappeared at the end of the Ice Age. Such geological changes would have been catastrophic to any life living on such a landmass: the unhappy result of the constant violence of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge.

From: A new look at geological and oceanographic data supporting Atlantis
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Geology.html[/


Here is a summary from another study, which I do not have but does a fair job of explaining things:

The Atlantic is the only ocean connecting both polar hydrospheres. Its edges consist almost entirely of passive continental margins of the American and Eurafrican land masses, but they are interrupted by the tectonically unstable regions of the Caribbean and Mediterranean Seas which trace the ancient mobile circum-equatorial Tethys belt. The opening and evolution of the Atlantic during the last 160–180 myrs had profound consequences both for the paleo-oceanography of the world ocean and for the geology of the adjacent continents where vast basins developed. The dominant portion of the global land area drain today therefore directly or indirectly into the Atlantic Ocean. The main North Atlantic basin was part of the circum-equatorial Tethys Ocean from its early mid-Jurassic formation until the late Cretaceous when the South Atlantic with its connection to the Southern Ocean opened wide enough to allow the exchange of surface and deep water masses. The opening of the Norwegian-Greenland Sea during late Paleocene and early Eocene created a pathway for the exchange of water between the Arctic and North Atlantic Oceans. The subsidence of the main platform of the aseismic Iceland-Faeroe Ridge with a deep channel at its southeastern end during middle Miocene allowed deep water from the Norwegian-Greenland Sea to enter the main North Atlantic basin. The stepwise evolution of the ocean basin including the history and final closure of the circum-equatorial seaway during the late Tertiary, the waxing and waning of epicontinental seas and marginal basins, and the evolution of the paleoclimate, had a dominating influence on the paleo-oceanography and thereafter on the pelagic lithofacies through time. The spatial and temporal distribution of pelagic sediments display a zonation and a latitudinal asymmetry which were more intense during times of steep paleoclimatic and paleo-oceanographic gradients than in periods of relatively uniform and less intensively zoned atmosphere and surface water masses. Both the North and the South Atlantic oceans are subdivided into smaller basins due to the presence of the mid-ocean ridge and the development of large aseismic structural highs. Sediments from the flanks of the Iceland-Faeroe Ridge (as well as from the Rio Grande Rise and Walvis Ridge) also allow a description of the paleo-oceanography of the intermediate water masses of the adjacent ocean basins. They reveal evidence of subsidence and allow reconstruction of the evolution of deep channels which intersect these barriers and which have acted as passages for the deep water circulation during the geologic past.

from: History of the North Atlantic Ocean: Evolution of an Asymmetric Zonal Paleo-Environment in a Latitudinal Ocean Basin, Manik Talwani, William Hay, William B. F. Ryan, 2013
History of the North Atlantic Ocean: Evolution of an Asymmetric Zonal Paleo-Environment in a Latitudinal Ocean Basin - Deep Drilling Results in the Atlantic Ocean: Continental Margins and Paleoenvironment - Thiede - Wiley Online Library

The way the Atlantic ocean formed and has grown, and continues to grow due to the mid-Atlantic ridge expansion, included large subsidences of the crust. The pelgic clay beds show NO evidence of known catastrophic events, so Hermann's argument is based on a piece of evidence which amounts to a nice record of millions of years, but this record has not shown known events which by his logic, it should.

We have been most fortunate as to the weather lately, in fact the days have been in the 40s with little or no wind with plenty of sunshine, rather pleasant in fact. I would not mind if this sort of thing lasted until May.
Roy

PS I received my own copy of Benteen's Scout today, and would like to ask how can you tell if it is a first edition? This one does not say, just the date of copyright (1987). It was a bit pricey but I decided it was worth it for the map if nothing else.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I believe if Benteen's Scout is not a first edition, it will state that it is a second edition or later printing. Mine has a plain white cover over the original red/W gold lettering. Those are the only copies I have seen advertised as first editions. If your's does not say second edition or second + printing, I would assume it's a first. You could contact the publisher.

Take care,

Joe