Authentic vs. Knapped Points.

[mad.co.walker]

I have only purchased a few points throughout the years and luckily all have been authentic. Is there ONE certain place on a point that can be examined to see if a point has been been "modernly knapped" ? I know patina is an obvious focal point. but some of the points i would have liked to purchase just don't "look right" and later find out that it was an authentic point. I have only been hunting for about 5 years so any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have seen sellers at artifact shows use an eye piece to examine points and they seem to know right away. What are they looking for in a point in order to call it authentic. Thanks to all that will reply. One more thing to passon. I found a book awhile back titled "PREHISTORIC CHERT TYPES OF THE MIDWEST" by TONY DeREGNAUCOURT and JEFF GEORIADY copy righted 1998. Its an excellent reference book and lists a variety of chert types with excellent pictures. Just thought i would let anyone who is looking for a good reference book know. HH.

 

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[natchitoches]

well to tell the truth. they can tell if a point is knapped only some times. and can't prove a point is authentic at all.
you should read the post about that huge Clovis point, that was found
just about ever one said it was knapped. but it got 3 papers on it now.
they just can't really prove it one way or the other. a paper is just one man ideal of what he thinks it is.
the very best Authenticator has been fool more than once. by knapped points.
a whole lot of real points are label fake ever year. too
now a lot of people will not agree with this, but its the real truth
I got 45 years of hunting points. I use to get my points papered too.
till I learn the truth about it.

 

[Felinepeachy]

Probably the only way to be 100% sure is if you were the one to actually find it.

 

[lostcauses]

Probably the only way to be 100% sure is if you were the one to actually find it.

Fake points ( reproductions) are also spread on sites.

 

[Felinepeachy]

OMG Hahahahahhaahaha.

Who in the world would take the time to get a bunch of reproductions and take them to a site and toss them around? That is just so wrong LOL

 

[uniface]

It happens, folks, and it's happened for longer than anybody here's been alive.

Sometimes it's to give somebody a thrill. Sometimes it's to put one over on somebody. Sometimes it's to lure people's attention away from another place. Sometimes it's out of spite.

There is no single magic bullet way to tell a reproduction from an original that works every time. There are only a lot of ways (plural) that might, or might not, be decisive.

In the end, more people think they can than can.

 

[Krisrock]

I have found reproductions (two in one afternoon) in a well known Indian trading camp along the Colorado river in Central Texas. People who plant them also like to watch people find them and get excited. I associate this behavior with the guy who gives phony winning lottery tickets out as birthday gifts. Sick or what !

 

[Smurufett]

There are many things that happens in hunting artifacts . Old timers would do what they call peppering a site . Meaning they would just scatter flakes , broken points , trash , fakes to trow you off of there site or they are mad because a new comer invades there spot they have hunted for years and years . Others for pure profit they will make a bunch of valuable aftifacts and points take them to place of origin stash them in a cache and it will be a wait game for pantina (Nice retirerment Plan dont you think?).

 

[Get-the-point]

It takes alot of little clues to spot a fake, but the most common areas too look at a point are the ridge edges. Most points loose there hinge fractures throughout time due to the Freeze and expansion during winters. Those that don't though will develop dirt under these ridge and mineralization whether it be Magnesium or Iron Deposits. If the hinge fracture is cloudy and dark in color as opposed to a fresh clean one which will look real clean it is possibly a authentic piece.

The next spot to look for is the Blade edges and Base. It is almost impossible to hide fresh flint crushing's along these edges unless the point is tumbled in a rock tumbler or sanded down. You can see the striation marks from Sanding so look for that as well. Flint Crushings look like fresh powdery pulverized flint along the blade edge and base. Looks like snow.

To really get a good analysis on a point you really need a Stereo-Scope. With this you will be able to see all these traits on a fake point. You can even see copper or residual metal traces on points through a microscope. You need to see if there is mineralization on the point as well. These are Magnesium and Iron Deposits and will be on all artifacts authentic. They often times stain the area around the deposit leaving a dark stain ring around it. Now certain acids will leave this same stain ring as well. So you need to learn the difference. Artifakers know this as well and will often times when spotted leave that flake or portion of Rhine left from original part of the stone to try and fool people.

Third thing to look for is Modern re-chip on a authentic piece. To do this you will need a Dual Wave Short/Long Wave Ultra-violet light. When in total darkness take the UV and go over the point. A re-chipped area will glow lighter than a authentic part which will show as a darker hue in color. I often times can see the rechip if you take a picture of a point. A lot of times it will show it in the pictures. You will see a patination variation in the picture showing that it has been altered.

And last apparently IR laser spectrography seems to be the most definitive at this moment. Most authenticators out there think they are good enough but i have fooled most of them with points that i have found that they kill. I have sent in exceptional personal finds to only have them come back as killed. They will not put there reputation on the line if the have a question about it or if they find it too perfect. They will take your money though!!! So the last method seems to be the best way!!!

Hopes this helps.....................GTP

 

[lostlake88]

well to tell the truth. they can tell if a point is knapped only some times. and can't prove a point is authentic at all.
you should read the post about that huge Clovis point, that was found
just about ever one said it was knapped. but it got 3 papers on it now.
they just can't really prove it one way or the other. a paper is just one man ideal of what he thinks it is.
the very best Authenticator has been fool more than once. by knapped points.
a whole lot of real points are label fake ever year. too
now a lot of people will not agree with this, but its the real truth
I got 45 years of hunting points. I use to get my points papered too.
till I learn the truth about it.

3 papers by whom is the question? I have a $100,000 fake paleo, you paper it and I'll give you half. I never rule out spurious intententions, especially in this hobby. With regards to the original question, I would have to say (raised) ferric oxide deposits is something I look for. Crushing in the notches and basal grinding.

 

[natchitoches]

here you go lostlake88
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,330115.0.html

New record clovis

 

[uniface]

3 papers by whom is the question?

Two of them are Dwayne Rodgers and tom Davis. Not sure about the third.

 

[natchitoches]

even the great Greg Perino was fooled many times.
and he was indeed the best

 

[trevmma]

like my buddy once said when i showed him a point i found(Thats fake) i said no i found ithe said( somebody probably faked one thousands of years ago. lol.

 

[Michael Karr]

Probably the only way to be 100% sure is if you were the one to actually find it.

Just because you found one dont mean it could'nt have been salted either,,,Mike

 

[mad.co.walker]

Thanks to all that replied. now i really have to do alot of research. I guess the safest way is to not buy any at all !!!!!!! And yes felinepeachy there are people that knap points and distribute their works for people to "FIND" . I talked to a man who was knapping a point at one of our sites along the mississippi river and when he was done he just laughed and said. I usually take the ones i break or dont like and throw them in the river. they will eventually wash up. He said this with a BIG GRIN on his face. Again thanks to all that replied.

 

[lostlake88]

Probably the only way to be 100% sure is if you were the one to actually find it.

Just because you found one dont mean it could'nt have been salted either,,,Mike

I am guilty of this. More than once have I thrown a pipe or an arrowhead in my buddy's corn row. It's funny to me. One time in particular is memorable. I wrote "Found by Tecumseh 1798" on the back of a decent fake, chucked it about 20 feet in front of my buddy. He was giddy for an hour untill he rubbed the dirt off the back on the way home. And for a minute there he was convinced Tecumseh had found and lost this arrowhead. Still makes me chuckle. And of course it's been done to me too with similar results.

 

[Get-the-point]

Yo lost lake you can throw a pipe in front of me any day. I would not complain. There will be hell to pay if it says, "Found by Tecumseh.......................lol..............just/sayin........................GTP

 

[creek astronaut]

I have only purchased one artifact in my 30+years of hunting,so I dont have worries.Get the Point is spot on.You have to put the hinge fractures and notches to the test under a scope to have reasonable chance of being for sure,but thats still not fool proof.Artifacts have been being faked for over a hundred years,can you imagine the amount of fake stuff that is in circulation nowThink about that the next time you buy that perfect dove.Your best bet is to find them.As far as fields being salted,yes that happens but it is a uncommon thing.I once read a story of a guy who wouldnt let anyone hunt his property because he was a hunter.well he starts finding bannerstones left and right.perfect ones.come to find out the guy he turned away went and made these pieces and salted the guys fields.Guess thats one way of saying phuc you.

 

[Rockiologist]

In Ar my buddy found a pretty black dalton in some dirt we brought in to build up his drive way. When we spread it a few days later it rained and he saw it walking to his shop in the ditch. Now all of us that run together all hunt so we are all in and out at his place from time to time. Never a flake before that load of dirt had been found on his property of over five hundred acres. then last year when we came back from turkey hunting we were on our way to the shop when we started seeinf flakes here and there all up and down the driveway. Come to find out someone we did not even know had come and done this why we were gone because we had got into there area.
So point being people are just as funny about hunting rocks as they are dear. You can put a chain around your platform but it dont mean it will be there opening morning lol.