Axe and Celt found in close proximity the same day

[dognose]

Just after finding my first axe, described here, on 03/18/1990 I found both this full grooved axe and this square polled celt, in the same field in Henry County Indiana.

The full groove axes is 5 1/2 inches in length.
The celt is 6 5/8 inches in length and has minor plow strikes on both sides.
Reviewing Lar Hothems book, Indian Axes and Related Stone Artifacts, this celt would be classified as a Hopewell Rectangular Celt. Chapter XI, page 97
The text states: "These are usually very well-made artifacts. The poll and bit are almost the same width, and the sides are sometimes excurvate but may be nearly straight. Both faces are somewhat flat and often highly polished; only rarely do peck marks remain near the poll area." Dimensions: 2 - 9 inches


While the Adena rectangular poll celt description is very close to the relic, the dimensions given for this celt are smaller than that above.

This is one example of the times I have found multiple hardstone on the same day in the same field. This lends credence to the implied Carr's rule of Hardstone.

Makes me nostalgic for the mold board plowing days.

 

[robertk]

Very cool finds.

Makes me nostalgic for the mold board plowing days.

Yep. I used to find things every spring. But now, not for a long time.

 

[Nwohseeker]

Ok I’ll bite, what is Carr’s rule for hardstone?

 

[CreekSide]

Nice material

 

[UnderMiner]

Wahwah we wah! Very nice!

 

[ToddsPoint]

The Celt is diorite. Very nice!👍🏻

 

[dognose]

Ok I’ll bite, what is Carr’s rule for hardstone?

Lar Hothems book, Indian Axes and Related Stone Artifacts, Chapter XXVII page 208 is titled "Finding Axes - How, When and Where. When I first obtained this book from Lar at the New Castle Indiana relic show in 1997, I studied the book and focused on this chapter. The chapter starts:
"One of the things that most Indian Artifact collectors know very little about is what one actually does in order to find axes. Luckily, an article has been written by Mr. Harold E Carr, of Greenfield Iowa, which goes into such detail. He is one of the top axe-finders in the country, having picked up over 122 axes and celts in the last 20 years."

Three pages of interesting detail is then given. Too much to give here but can be summarized in one statement which I have taken to heart since 1997 and have been proven time and time again. The best place to find an axe is on the site in places where axes gave previously been found.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

How was the Celt lashed to a handle..or was it even?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

How was the Celt lashed to a handle..or was it even?

Celts were not usually lashed they are inserted in hole in handle, the more they are used the tighter they become.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Here is excellent examble of handle with celt mounted, handle made by member Toddspoint.

Post in thread 'North American celt?'

May 3, 2025

This would be similar to a small hatchet in today’s terms, but I have no idea how it would have been securely lashed to a handle.

This is how celts were hafted, and why it was such a big improvement over grooved axes. No lashing is necessary. The more you use it, the tighter it gets. The celt will split the wood if it’s too tight on the sides. Top and bottom is where you want the most contact. I made this celt from diabase, the handle is ash.

• ToddsPoint

• 
• 

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Celts were not usually lashed they are inserted in hole in handle, the more they are used the tighter they become.

View attachment 2205822

Seems like this would be a technology breakthrough that could be dated.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Celts were not usually lashed they are inserted in hole in handle, the more they are used the tighter they become.

View attachment 2205822

Is that a legit glacial example or reproduction?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Is that a legit glacial example or reproduction?

It is legit, not a repro.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

It is legit, not a repro.

Looks like a club.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

It is in the Museum of the Red River in Idabel, Oklahoma.

 

[dirstscratcher]

HA HA, the best place to find an axe is to look where one was lost or misplaced centuries ago. I've known of quite a few finds, and made a few myself, but rarely ever more than one at a location. The full groove axe is considered the oldest style and is considered somewhere in mid or early archaic, with 3/4 groove in later archaic. The celt is a much later form of axe as stated, and the nicer ones as you've found are considered early to middle woodland. By the time the late woodland ere rolled around, they were making crude celts with little refinement, mostly just ground edges.. The one place where Carr's rule applies is the later late woodland, especially village sites, but then you find an abundance of all artifacts in such a location. Your site could be a desirable camp site used over thousands of years.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

HA HA, the best place to find an axe is to look where one was lost or misplaced centuries ago. I've known of quite a few finds, and made a few myself, but rarely ever more than one at a location. The full groove axe is considered the oldest style and is considered somewhere in mid or early archaic, with 3/4 groove in later archaic. The celt is a much later form of axe as stated, and the nicer ones as you've found are considered early to middle woodland. By the time the late woodland ere rolled around, they were making crude celts with little refinement, mostly just ground edges.. The one place where Carr's rule applies is the later late woodland, especially village sites, but then you find an abundance of all artifacts in such a location. Your site could be a desirable camp site used over thousands of years.

Mine was supposedly found in an area that dates 3000 BPT to contact period, so that makes sense. No grooved axes in my area. But also not any polished celts…hmm EDIT: I have done a little research, apparently our local tribes relied on flaked stone, not polished celts. So I need to research some more as to where mine may have come from. I actually have some leads to follow. Could make for an interesting story if it pans out.

 

[dirstscratcher]

Mine was supposedly found in an area that dates 3000 BPT to contact period, so that makes sense. No grooved axes in my area. But also not any polished celts…hmm EDIT: I have done a little research, apparently our local tribes relied on flaked stone, not polished celts. So I need to research some more as to where mine may have come from. I actually have some leads to follow. Could make for an interesting story if it pans out.

An area doesn't date to a specific time. Your axe and celt were made a few thousand years apart. If you have an archaeological site it can be a specific time frame depending on if you can determine when it was occupied. In your case it was visited at least twice thousands of years apart, and probably many times in between. Finding two ground stone artifacts does bode well for future artifact finds.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

An area doesn't date to a specific time. Your axe and celt were made a few thousand years apart. If you have an archaeological site it can be a specific time frame depending on if you can determine when it was occupied. In your case it was visited at least twice thousands of years apart, and probably many times in between. Finding two ground stone artifacts does bode well for future artifact finds.

You got the wrong person. I didn’t start this post. Also I meant to say that my area was primarily occupied during a certain period. But thank you for the info.

 

[russau]

Looks like a club.

Yep it would feel like a club also if hit on someones head !