Aztec, Cibola, Zuni, Estevan Quivara and related gold-like conjecture

[Highmountain]

HIGH---Yer nuts, crazy, I can just imagine the bad habits you picked up learning by yourself heheheh. Incidentally, I was stick trained and am still partial to them. In the USAF we started at hr one with the old
AT-6. One of my instructors developed ulcers, you know who received the blame of course.

After about 3 hrs I was scheduled for a full blind - instrument -take off. My instructor, Steve Canyon, lined me up with the runway then told me to take off when I had clearance. As usual I was so nervous that I had both feet hard on the rudder pedals, after we started rolling my right foot slipped off and naturally I gave it full left rudder. we left the runway and I proceeded to bound several times before the poor aircraft staggered into the air by itself.

When I looked in the rear vision mirror at Steve, he had both feet on the cross bars smoking a cigar and looked as nonchalant as it was possible. When he noticed me looking at him, he picked up the mic and said " Curry, that was a bit ragged, let's go back and try again".

Later I found that that I had literally bounced over 4 runway lights. If I had hit one, we probably would have stalled and I wouldn't be writing this. How he could sit there calmly smoking a cigar without trying to correct a serious problem always escaped me, he was COOL.

My other instructor, Capt Ballard was famous in ww-2. He never completed a mission without being shot down. So, having two instructors kinda batty explains to an extent my present status. We mesh nicely gentlemen heheheh.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. I presume that you all agree that I have located Atlantis without a doubt?

p.p.s. Some hiker, I would love to hear of some of your cold weather flying problems. Perhaps we should start another thread.

Jose: Good story. Thanks for sharing it.

I'm not much into Atlantis. If you're satisfied with your conclusions I'm satisfied with them.

Yeah, there's been some thread-drift but the thread never went much of anywhere anyway. If one of you wants to start a new one it suits me.

SH: This thread, or some other, I hope you'll do as Jose suggests and describe your travails with the Champ.

Gracias
Jack

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

K since it is a broad one, let's keep it. Yes more on the champ., and cold weather flying.

Janice go to the"dowsing forum, without changing anything, simply start scrolling down. you will come to

Dowsing & paranormal experiences.

Discuss the so-called paranormal

dowsing /paranormal experiences.

Map dowsing

I posted as RealdeTayopa, Till Eulenspiegle, Tropical Tramp, Tayopa, see sample --->


*************************************************************************************

Hi: show me the money

I already have, but it was apparently pointedly ignored, so I will repost it.

Please don't remark upon the quality of the photo, since artistic ability doesn't enter into the point in question.

Basic data: a local took me to where he had seen a fire over the years.

A short search with the old Gardner turned up several rotting sacks of various denomination Mexican coins, most 8 Reales.

They were from a mule train that had been assualted in the early 1800's.

This is my share, mostly 8 Reales. It kept beans in the pot for a while.

p.s. I doubt that we can have a repeatable performance for peer review, they have been spent. so sorry.

Till Eulenspeigle - Don Jose de La Mancha ( I tilt iwndmills )

.jpgCache of coins in Mexico.jpg (16.28 KB, 600x432 - viewed 179 times.)

That skinny gal was destined to be my wife after 3+ years of Formal, old fashioned Spanish courtship. Complete with serranades, duenas, promanades, formal presentations. bans etc.etc This is her after I fattened her up a bit.

 

[Highmountain]

K since it is a broad one, let's keep it. Yes more on the champ., and cold weather flying.

Janice go to the"dowsing forum, without changing anything, simply start scrolling down. you will come to

Dowsing & paranormal experiences.

Discuss the so-called paranormal

dowsing /paranormal experiences.

Map dowsing

I posted as RealdeTayopa, Till Eulenspiegle, Tropical Tramp, Tayopa, see sample --->


*************************************************************************************

Hi: show me the money

I already have, but it was apparently pointedly ignored, so I will repost it.

Please don't remark upon the quality of the photo, since artistic ability doesn't enter into the point in question.

Basic data: a local took me to where he had seen a fire over the years.

A short search with the old Gardner turned up several rotting sacks of various denomination Mexican coins, most 8 Reales.

They were from a mule train that had been assualted in the early 1800's.

This is my share, mostly 8 Reales. It kept beans in the pot for a while.

p.s. I doubt that we can have a repeatable performance for peer review, they have been spent. so sorry.

Till Eulenspeigle - Don Jose de La Mancha ( I tilt iwndmills )

.jpgCache of coins in Mexico.jpg (16.28 KB, 600x432 - viewed 179 times.)

Jose: Nice find. I pointedly ignored it by never having seen it before, smiles I. Thanks for posting it, though I don't recall challenging you to 'show me the money'. It ain't my style.

Jack

 

[somehiker]

Any find such as yours,Don Jose would certainly reveal the functional state of one's heart,I expect.I would expect that a pile of silver like that could fund a wish or two.
The Champ was a true stick and rudder joy to fly,similar to the Piper cub and Oh-One.Mine was basic VFR and 65 hp.Tach,Airspeed,Turn and bank,AI and whiskey compass--no DG plus one Comm.radio and a hobbs was about it for the panel.The fuel gauge,the same as a Model A Ford, was mounted on top of the cowling and was probably the one that I considered the most important,although it was difficult to see at times due to frost or glare.Mine was one of the earlier models and had no starter,which meant that you said "Contact" instead of "Prop" and hoped that you or your helper had the juice to swing the prop.If the temp dropped below 0 F I used a gasoline fired coleman camp stove and a tarp over the cowl to pre-warm the engine and oil.At 20 below and colder it was a good idea to drain the tank the night before as well and warm the oil on the stove just before flight time,otherwise hand propping was virtually impossible and very hazardous.
I only had the Champion for seven months and most of my logbook hours were on skis that winter,with a a few on wheels the following spring.With only 65 hp it took a bit of a roll to get airborne,especially on skis but we were off at about fifty knots.
On skis the T/O roll often seems shorter because it's hard to judge speed and distance on snow out in the middle of a field or lake.The nicest thing about the Champ was that it could be piloted from the front seat without a passenger or sandbags on board,unlike the Cub.A fuel bill in my log shows $.39 gal for 12gal of 85 Avgas,good for almost 3 hrs leaned.About the only gripe I ever had was that the doors leaked a lot of cold air,but that also kept the frost on the side windows minimal.
Winter flying,especially in remote areas has additional challenges,mastered only by training and preparedness.Same applies for mountain flying.
Flight planning procedures and situational awareness are paramount for survival as well as a functional ELT.The only response that you may get for a Pan or Mayday transmission may be from an airliner at 40,000 ft. and 100 miles away.Not much help when it's 40 below and you aren't sure where you are.I'm sorry to lecture but no amount of sim training can give any odds for survival after a forced landing or survivable crash landing in this environment.
I'll post a bit more later....SH.

 

[Highmountain]

Any find such as yours,Don Jose would certainly reveal the functional state of one's heart,I expect.I would expect that a pile of silver like that could fund a wish or two.
The Champ was a true stick and rudder joy to fly,similar to the Piper cub and Oh-One.Mine was basic VFR and 65 hp.Tach,Airspeed,Turn and bank,AI and whiskey compass--no DG plus one Comm.radio and a hobbs was about it for the panel.The fuel gauge,the same as a Model A Ford, was mounted on top of the cowling and was probably the one that I considered the most important,although it was difficult to see at times due to frost or glare.Mine was one of the earlier models and had no starter,which meant that you said "Contact" instead of "Prop" and hoped that you or your helper had the juice to swing the prop.If the temp dropped below 0 F I used a gasoline fired coleman camp stove and a tarp over the cowl to pre-warm the engine and oil.At 20 below and colder it was a good idea to drain the tank the night before as well and warm the oil on the stove just before flight time,otherwise hand propping was virtually impossible and very hazardous.
I only had the Champion for seven months and most of my logbook hours were on skis that winter,with a a few on wheels the following spring.With only 65 hp it took a bit of a roll to get airborne,especially on skis but we were off at about fifty knots.
On skis the T/O roll often seems shorter because it's hard to judge speed and distance on snow out in the middle of a field or lake.The nicest thing about the Champ was that it could be piloted from the front seat without a passenger or sandbags on board,unlike the Cub.A fuel bill in my log shows $.39 gal for 12gal of 85 Avgas,good for almost 3 hrs leaned.About the only gripe I ever had was that the doors leaked a lot of cold air,but that also kept the frost on the side windows minimal.
Winter flying,especially in remote areas has additional challenges,mastered only by training and preparedness.Same applies for mountain flying.
Flight planning procedures and situational awareness are paramount for survival as well as a functional ELT.The only response that you may get for a Pan or Mayday transmission may be from an airliner at 40,000 ft. and 100 miles away.Not much help when it's 40 below and you aren't sure where you are.I'm sorry to lecture but no amount of sim training can give any odds for survival after a forced landing or survivable crash landing in this environment.
I'll post a bit more later....SH.

SH: Thanks for the detailed post. I'm looking forward to reading more of your thoughts. I couldn't agree more that a person needs to be as aware of the risks associated with whatever he's doing so's to be able to weigh them against his own priorities when he's deciding which ones to take and which ones require further preparation, equipment, whatever.

Jack

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

OHIO Jack: YOu posted --->

I don't recall challenging you to 'show me the money'. It ain't my style.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is how I copied it off of one of my posts in dowsing or the paranormal for the gals , not in regards to you, apol. for not clarifying.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Highmountain]

K since it is a broad one, let's keep it. Yes more on the champ., and cold weather flying.

Janice go to the"dowsing forum, without changing anything, simply start scrolling down. you will come to

Dowsing & paranormal experiences.

Discuss the so-called paranormal

dowsing /paranormal experiences.

Map dowsing

I posted as RealdeTayopa, Till Eulenspiegle, Tropical Tramp, Tayopa, see sample --->


*************************************************************************************

Hi: show me the money

I already have, but it was apparently pointedly ignored, so I will repost it.

Please don't remark upon the quality of the photo, since artistic ability doesn't enter into the point in question.

Basic data: a local took me to where he had seen a fire over the years.

A short search with the old Gardner turned up several rotting sacks of various denomination Mexican coins, most 8 Reales.

They were from a mule train that had been assualted in the early 1800's.

This is my share, mostly 8 Reales. It kept beans in the pot for a while.

p.s. I doubt that we can have a repeatable performance for peer review, they have been spent. so sorry.

Till Eulenspeigle - Don Jose de La Mancha ( I tilt iwndmills )

.jpgCache of coins in Mexico.jpg (16.28 KB, 600x432 - viewed 179 times.)

That skinny gal was destined to be my wife after 3+ years of Formal, old fashioned Spanish courtship. Complete with serranades, duenas, promanades, formal presentations. bans etc.etc This is her after I fattened her up a bit.

I've been studying that 'wheel with four spokes' trying to figure out what I'm looking at. Do you recall what it was, or was it just some piece of decoration?

Also, do you do a bit of dowsing yourself?

Jack

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Some hiker: Marvelous post my friend, more.

About pulling a prop through, on the crop duster version that I was flying, it had no starter nor electrical system as such. Pulling that big meat cleaver on the 450 hp engine through always gave me food for thought.

Flying back from Bathurst, Canada., to Phoenix Az, was one of the most wonderful, as well as the most miserable trips that I have ever had. Since most Fbo personnel were afraid of that big prop, I had to pull it through myself. With 3 freshly broken ribs and two fractured neck vertebrae, it hurt.

But being able to legally fly low and slow across the US was an experience never to be forgotten. See America at 200 - 500 ft.

I remember entering the Roosevelt dam area in Arizona from the north, almost as soon as I entered the cloud layer dropped to below mt level, with no effective instruments, I was trapped into having to fly to it's southen exit. I flew about 50 ft above the highway, using it as my only guide out of the trap. It rained so hard that at time I couldn't even see it.

Some how I managed to follow all of the bends and curves of the highway in the narrow valley safely and finally broke out in the clear at it's southern entrance, my cockpit was about 1/3 full of water.

I climbed to 1000 ft., did a slow roll and emptied most of it. By the time that I reached Sky Harbour, Phoenix, it had mostly dried .

Another lesson learned the easy way.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hola HIGH: that wheel is the search antenae / coil of the old Gardner detector. It could go down 18 ft on a refrig and had ground canceling, at a time when all ather detectors were bfo's. in 1955 it cost $900 when any orher detector could be purchased for $ 150 max.

As for dowsing, in actually dowsing for $$ no, I experimented and developed it to the point that I was satisfied that something did exist that was controlable. This was an important step in my paranormal investigations.

In one test run, I located my wedding ring 9 times out of 10,

exerps from some of my posts on the paranormal. in dowsing threads
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hi Yes to minimize, not "ELIMINATE" , hence all such tests are subject to question and intimate review, especially when the emotional/mental/physical aspects of the people are involved. In this type of case, it is impossible to do so. Even if all try to the best of their ability to be impartial or to succeed, it is still impossible, due to what can be called "self delusional beliefs" triggered by perhaps the subconscience from a past experience or reading, or even in being subjected to a feeling of inferiority because of present surroundings and type or attitude of the testers. Hence any conclusions based upon pure statistics in this type of test, is at best a semi-educated guess.

For a dowsing test to be "VALID", the SAME dowser should be subjected to a large no. of tests in the same exact manner in many different conditions and under (A) all testers that believe in Dowsing , (B) All of those that do not, plus (C) an equally divided group. Only under these conditions can one draw a "reasonable" conclusion.

Anything less is completely unacceptable as true Scientific testing since we are dealing with a complex interwoven group of Psychological as well a Physiological feeds all intermodulating each other.. Any of which can be altered easily by the present testing conditions


Don Jose de La Mancha
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"HI my Friend Carl, agreed, so can dowsing, among other things, "IF" we had the proper measuring devices, we do not! Today we are in about the same status as Galvani would be regarding our latest electronic Nana/bio technology. In his wildest dreams he could not imagine it, nor could he even begin to imagine the instruments necessary to measure it.

We are essentially in the same situation, we are attempting to measure a very subtle energy force, one which we haven't even the slightest idea of what it consists of by applying a purely physical brute force unrelated measurement system.

We haven't the slightest logical idea on how to develop a suitable measuring system. Frankly it is ignorance or ego of a high degree, to continuously quote it over and over again. It does not do Justice to you Carl since you do have an excellent brain, I can understand XXXX and others being addicted to it, but. it does not indicate a progressive or open imaginative mind.

A tremendous work was done by Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose on using Plants as bio instruments to measure subtle energies. He also won the Nobel peace prize on his work in Electronics and physics, in fact he is credited in being the first to send intelligible data via micro waves in th 1800's.

I believe that they are now actively using bio-instruments to investigate telepathy, A fascinating allied Field field if one wishes to research it.

 

[Highmountain]

Hola HIGH: that wheel is the search antenae / coil of the old Gardner detector. It could go down 18 ft on a refrig and had ground canceling, at a time when all ather detectors were bfo's. in 1955 it cost $900 when any orher detector could be purchased for $ 150 max.

As for dowsing, in actually dowsing for $$ no, I experimented and developed it to the point that I was satisfied that something did exist that was controlable. This was an important step in my paranormal investigations.

In one test run, I located my wedding ring 9 times out of 10,

exerps from some of my posts on the paranormal. in dowsing threads
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

hi Yes to minimize, not "ELIMINATE" , hence all such tests are subject to question and intimate review, especially when the emotional/mental/physical aspects of the people are involved. In this type of case, it is impossible to do so. Even if all try to the best of their ability to be impartial or to succeed, it is still impossible, due to what can be called "self delusional beliefs" triggered by perhaps the subconscience from a past experience or reading, or even in being subjected to a feeling of inferiority because of present surroundings and type or attitude of the testers. Hence any conclusions based upon pure statistics in this type of test, is at best a semi-educated guess.

For a dowsing test to be "VALID", the SAME dowser should be subjected to a large no. of tests in the same exact manner in many different conditions and under (A) all testers that believe in Dowsing , (B) All of those that do not, plus (C) an equally divided group. Only under these conditions can one draw a "reasonable" conclusion.

Anything less is completely unacceptable as true Scientific testing since we are dealing with a complex interwoven group of Psychological as well a Physiological feeds all intermodulating each other.. Any of which can be altered easily by the present testing conditions


Don Jose de La Mancha
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"HI my Friend Carl, agreed, so can dowsing, among other things, "IF" we had the proper measuring devices, we do not! Today we are in about the same status as Galvani would be regarding our latest electronic Nana/bio technology. In his wildest dreams he could not imagine it, nor could he even begin to imagine the instruments necessary to measure it.

We are essentially in the same situation, we are attempting to measure a very subtle energy force, one which we haven't even the slightest idea of what it consists of by applying a purely physical brute force unrelated measurement system.

We haven't the slightest logical idea on how to develop a suitable measuring system. Frankly it is ignorance or ego of a high degree, to continuously quote it over and over again. It does not do Justice to you Carl since you do have an excellent brain, I can understand XXXX and others being addicted to it, but. it does not indicate a progressive or open imaginative mind.

A tremendous work was done by Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose on using Plants as bio instruments to measure subtle energies. He also won the Nobel peace prize on his work in Electronics and physics, in fact he is credited in being the first to send intelligible data via micro waves in th 1800's.

I believe that they are now actively using bio-instruments to investigate telepathy, A fascinating allied Field field if one wishes to research it.

Dowsing's a handy tool in a lot of ways but has a lot of built-in limitations. Seems to me it's capable of 100 percent accuracy for water, pretty good for artifacts, less so ranging downward on a lot of other things. Just a tool though.

I've known a lot of dowsers in my life. Never met one who could dowse for raw gold, though some claimed to be able to. Had a couple of them pacing back and forth and up and down for a couple of hours once at a campsite of mine looking for a gold coin I buried within a 50 foot radius for them to test themselves on.

CB Lethbridge, head of the British Archeological Society for a lot of years wrote a book after he retired admitting he surveyed sites with a pendulum most of his career and describing how he tried [and thought he had] 'scientificized' the process. Interesting read, but the process he used seems to me to work because he believed it would, as opposed to working for everyone the same way.

My thought is that one key to understanding and scientificizing dowsing would be to explore what it is that makes water so easy to locate for just about anyone and what it is about water that's different from other things a person might wish to locate using the same method. Dowsing qualifies as a more-or-less metaphysical activity and the fact that systematic approaches haven't shown much success at nailing it down for consistency probably is more a testimony to the breadth of scope of the investigative techniques than it is to whether it can be done, or can't.



Just ramblings
Jack

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Morning Jack: You posted -->

the fact that systematic approaches haven't shown much success at nailing it down for consistency probably is more a testimony to the breadth of scope of the investigative techniques than it is to whether it can be done, or can't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A*** Jack you have it exactly. Also, while dowsing is a natural ability, one in which everyone is capable of utilizing to certain extent, many overestimate their personal abilities. They have a bit initial success, then proceed under the assumption that they are quite competent to testing, only to fall on their face for many reasons, especially those that have developed a form of Shibboleth regarding what is necessary to utilize it.

Incidentally just about anything can be dowsed, depending upon the belief and inherent ability of the dowser. It has even been used successfully for medical diagnosis..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Highmountain]

Morning Jack: You posted -->

the fact that systematic approaches haven't shown much success at nailing it down for consistency probably is more a testimony to the breadth of scope of the investigative techniques than it is to whether it can be done, or can't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A*** Jack you have it exactly. Also, while dowsing is a natural ability, one in which everyone is capable of utilizing to certain extent, many overestimate their personal abilities. They have a bit initial success, then proceed under the assumption that they are quite competent to testing, only to fall on their face for many reasons, especially those that have developed a form of Shibboleth regarding what is necessary to utilize it.

Incidentally just about anything can be dowsed, depending upon the belief and inherent ability of the dowser. It has even been used successfully for medical diagnosis..

Don Jose de La Mancha

Morning Don Jose de La Mancha:

You and I agree on a lot of things, agree partially on some other things, and probably disagree on others where dowsing's concerned [although I keep an open mind and try hard not to let my opinions become concrete so's to rule out possibilities of discovering where I'm wrong].

One possibility I've explored and experimented with a bit, had some hints but not solid confirmation about is complexity of molecular structure of whatever's being dowsed. Another's the percentage of water-content, the results of which are more iffy but still worth pursuing further. Water does seem to have some bearing on things, but not necessarily in and of itself, and not in a way I've found any key to the ways influence on dowsing results is exerted. Then there's 'binders' if it's a conglomerate of any sort.

But I think there's also another aspect that hasn't been talked about much among dowsers. A sort of 'signature', or 'taint' that comes with human contact by extent, degree of human involvement, duration, type of interactions, etc.

As for the medical diagnosis, yep, and it isn't always passive. I trust it a lot more than I trust medicos and their gadgetry.

Thanks for the reply and observations.

Jack

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Jack: You posted-->

You and I agree on a lot of things, agree partially on some other things, and probably disagree on others
~~~~~~~~~~
Hmm you and I have a better ratio, even if it is reversed, than my tiger snicker

As for dowsing, simply regard it as just a matter of selective frequency discrimination or tuning by the human participant. Ultimately all things are simply composed of different frequencies or harmonics intermodulating with each other etc. this is accepted by conventional science.

A simple example of this ability to selectively discriminate from an infinite no. of frequencies - just imagine going into a Jewelry store looking for a special ring. You have absolutely no problem selecting it from a multitude of similar rings by simply filtering it's visual (?) frequencies. You do this without thinking, so it should be with normal dowsing once you have established what you might be looking for...

Don Jose de La Mancha

This can get to be extrremely interesting fun very quickly.

 

[Highmountain]

Jack: You posted-->

You and I agree on a lot of things, agree partially on some other things, and probably disagree on others ~~~~~~~~~~

[1.]Hmm you and I have a better ratio, even if it is reversed, than my tiger snicker

[2.] As for dowsing, simply regard it as just a matter of selective frequency discrimination or tuning by the human participant. Ultimately all things are simply composed of different frequencies or harmonics intermodulating with each other etc. this is accepted by conventional science.
A simple example of this ability to selectively discriminate from an infinite no. of frequencies - just imagine going into a Jewelry store looking for a special ring. You have absolutely no problem selecting it from a multitude of similar rings by simply filtering it's visual (?) frequencies. You do this without thinking, so it should be with normal dowsing once you have established what you might be looking for...

Don Jose de La Mancha

This can get to be extrremely interesting fun very quickly.

Don Jose de La Mancha: [1] I don't know much about tigers. I'm just an old country boy, myself.

[2.] Thanks for the suggestions and observations concerning dowsing.

Gracias,
Jack

 

[Highmountain]

Jack: You posted-->

You and I agree on a lot of things, agree partially on some other things, and probably disagree on others
~~~~~~~~~~
Hmm you and I have a better ratio, even if it is reversed, than my tiger snicker

As for dowsing, simply regard it as just a matter of selective frequency discrimination or tuning by the human participant. Ultimately all things are simply composed of different frequencies or harmonics intermodulating with each other etc. this is accepted by conventional science.

A simple example of this ability to selectively discriminate from an infinite no. of frequencies - just imagine going into a Jewelry store looking for a special ring. You have absolutely no problem selecting it from a multitude of similar rings by simply filtering it's visual (?) frequencies. You do this without thinking, so it should be with normal dowsing once you have established what you might be looking for...

Don Jose de La Mancha

This can get to be extrremely interesting fun very quickly.

Jose: Or anyone else who knows. It's been a long time since I calculated density altitude. Can someone tell me what temperature, pressure, dewpoint etc I need for a density altitude of sea level at 9000 MSL? Say 30 degrees F..

I have a reason for asking. Thanks in advance.

Jack

 

[Old Dog]

At $60,000 to own one of those ...
I would have to have a really good reason.

Other wise that looks like a whole lot of fun.

Thom

 

[Cynangyl]

It sure does!! They keep posting all kinds of fabulous toys I would just LOVE to have but will probably never be able to afford! lol Big ol teasers!!

 

[Highmountain]

At $60,000 to own one of those ...
I would have to have a really good reason.

Other wise that looks like a whole lot of fun.

Thom

Yeah it would take a good reason. But the density altitude question would be crucial in whatever reason a person might have.

Guess I'll have to websearch to refresh my memory tp see how cold and dry a morning would have to be to get that thing down to sea level while still being in the high country.

Thanks for the replies.

Jack

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI HIGH:

first, is that 30 at altitude or sealevel ?

Second, the humidity is extremely important also

Thiird, You are asking for somethng with too many vairables to just give a flat statement. Except for a single condition, you are asking about something which which will change radically throughout the day.

However, try this .

http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Highmountain]

HI HIGH:

first, is that 30 at altitude or sealevel ?

Second, the humidity is extremely important also

Thiird, You are asking for somethng with too many vairables to just give a flat statement. Except for a single condition, you are asking about something which which will change radically throughout the day.

However, try this .

http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm

Don Jose de La Mancha

Thanks for the link Jose. I'll look it over. I'm only thinking one time of day around daybreak picking the day carefully and being on the ground within half an hour staying there until favorable conditions. Probably not worth thinking about but I've got the time and the price is right for thinking.

Gracias,
Jack