Barn wall find!!!

[digordie]

Found this in a hidden pocket of the barn wall while i was removing the siding on the outside. Any ideas as to type or time period?

 

[1320]

Has the appearance of a snapped base Kirk.

Please note that I don't use the word "definately a __________". I could be and often are....wrong...lol.

 

[Wildcat1750]

Sorry, can't help you out with the ID but great find in an unusual place! What part of the country do you live in?
Nick

 

[digordie]

Sorry, can't help you out with the ID but great find in an unusual place! What part of the country do you live in?
Nick

I live in west illinois very close to the mississippi river.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

No such thing as a "Snapped Base Kirk" and I damn Overstreets for ever putting that non exsistent type in their book. It probably is a large Kirk type Point, but it is just one with the base broken off.

I was talking to guy at a show a few years back that told me while he was tearing down an old barn he found a 3/4 Grooved Axe sitting up on a high shelf in the barn. A lot of these old farmers would find these items and since they didn't mean much to them they would just stick them in the barn and forget about them.

 

[jamey]

thats a cool find,tom davis called one of mine a snap base kirk at a show one time,

 

[1320]

thats a cool find,tom davis called one of mine a snap base kirk at a show one time,

If Mr. Davis called it a snapped base Kirk, I'd would argue that the type does exist. No offense to the Reaper, he's been part of this hobby for a long time but.....do we see this trait regularly in other Archaic types or any types? I'm absolutely not trying to be offensive, Steve is the last guy that I want to get into a pissing match with and I hope he knows that. I have an open mind about all these things so...what is it about the Kirk that would cause this fracture to happen so frequently? Is the Kirk unique compared to other types in the base/notch area? Did the users of these try to do something odd with it that would "snap" the base? Overstreet didn't pull the name out of hat, there must have been quite some agreement from the field to be labeled as such. Reaper...help me out here, I value your opinions as always.

 

[1320]

Definatley a Kirk....lol...thanks Reaper for confirming my initial thought. I hate to use that word but if the Reaper agrees, I will use it with confidence (retrospectively).

 

[Tnmountains]

I am very torn on the snapped base kirk as I have dug them. I have one where the base is not really snapped but worked down to be like a snap ? I understand both sides of the argument. This would be a good new topic. Be nice to see what the collecting community has and wether they are ancient or recent breaks.

 

[1320]

I am very torn on the snapped base kirk as I have dug them. I have one where the base is not really snapped but worked down to be like a snap ? I understand both sides of the argument. This would be a good new topic. Be nice to see what the collecting community has and wether they are ancient or recent breaks.

Is the "snapped" area worked....what I mean is....the area where the actual "break" occured, not the sides.....the snapped area that would be horizontal to the sides of the base....damn, I bet that doesn't make one bit of sense...lol. Image?

 

[digordie]

It is broken along with part of one ear. Not sure if the original finder droped it but prob not. If he left it in the barn he prob didnt go far with it.

 

[1320]

It is broken along with part of one ear. Not sure if the original finder droped it but prob not. If he left it in the barn he prob didnt go far with it.

I have several with one or both ears broken, seems to be a common trait.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

The thing with these Points is yes they may have still been utilized after the original stem broke off, but they are not a type. Overtstreets is to blame for romanticizing the type and now every time someone finds a Kirk with the base broken off it's a Snapped Base and therefore worth more. I call shenanigans. lol

 

[GatorBoy]

I agree.. shenanigans!

 

[mainejman]

hello from maine

I live in west illinois very close to the mississippi river.

Just left oquawka illinois last week.the land of many artifacts.the creeks are down and I wish I could have stayed and looked around.

 

[Hippy]

I think it might be a thebes especially where it's found. Corner notch points are somewhat rare around here and it looks very much like a thebes with some notch damage. The material is LaMoine River Chert. I live to the north of you in the Quad Cities...for a few more weeks anyway.

I completely agree with Reaper. The snap base kirk idea is a joke. Sometimes when the base broke off of kirks and lost lakes they would continue to use them which resluted in the previous hafting area to get a worn appearance. We get the same things with thebes, hardins, and many other types up this way. The stemmed area was the weakest part of the point therefore it broke there more often.

Hippy

 

[digordie]

I think it might be a thebes especially where it's found. Corner notch points are somewhat rare around here and it looks very much like a thebes with some notch damage. The material is LaMoine River Chert. I live to the north of you in the Quad Cities...for a few more weeks anyway.

I completely agree with Reaper. The snap base kirk idea is a joke. Sometimes when the base broke off of kirks and lost lakes they would continue to use them which resluted in the previous hafting area to get a worn appearance. We get the same things with thebes, hardins, and many other types up this way. The stemmed area was the weakest part of the point therefore it broke there more often.

Hippy

Are the Thebes points older than Adena or Hopewell. Or are thay all pretty close in age.

 

[newnan man]

I agree with the Kirk definition and with Grim on the snap base. A lot of points not just Kirks are snapped and it is most likely from use. They probably continued to use them in some way as well. Why go to all the trouble to knap a base with notches then snap it off essentially making a Cobbs type? BS from overstreet to enhance the market most likely. (My opinion only here)

Here in Fla. most Hernandos and a lot of Hillys and Newnans suffer the same fate. Most people recognize them as points broken off from use. The Kirk is usually large, probably a knife or spear and has much stress on the hafting area resulting in a common break.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Digordie, Thebes Points are early Archaic so they are a few thousand years older than the Adena or Hopewell culture Points.

 

[digordie]

Digordie, Thebes Points are early Archaic so they are a few thousand years older than the Adena or Hopewell culture Points.

Thanks for the response. It seems i have so much to learn. Im really loving this sight and all those so willing to share their thoughts and knowledge. Thanks to all!!!