Blowing The Cast Iron Lids Off Of Beale

ECS · Oct 18, 2016

bigscoop said:
Why Ward as agent for copyright? Uh.....I think your author explains his reasons quite well, in fact.
...

If, as you maintain that the Beale Papers is a work of fiction because the real story has nothing to do with the job pamphlet's presented tale, the "authors reasons" as explained in the manuscript would also be considered as fiction.
How many times have we both told others that one can not prove the Beale Papers as true by quoting the Beale Papers as source material?

bigscoop · Oct 18, 2016

ECS said:
If, as you maintain that the Beale Papers is a work of fiction because the real story has nothing to do with the job pamphlet's presented tale, the "authors reasons" as explained in the manuscript would also be considered as fiction.

Why would the author's reasons for selecting an agent be fiction? :laughing7:

Uh......Ward's name even appears on the copyright application, yes? :laughing7:

This practice also not being out of the ordinary for agents. :laughing7:

And as far as I know, you're the only one who keeps insisting that the entire tale and all of it's details must be deemed fiction if not everything in that story is true exactly as depicted, even though the publication wasn't filed/copyrighted as such. Again, you're trying to discover the possible alternate solution by researching everything "local" many years after the presented period of 1817-1821/22, obviously still in denial of the strong possibility that Ward was only the agent just as the narration details and just as the copyright application suggest. :dontknow:

But then again, you still think St. Louis is in Virginia and that Richmond is in Lynchburg so you may as well keep trying to keep everything local. :laughing7:

franklin · Oct 19, 2016

bigscoop said:
Why would the author's reasons for selecting an agent be fiction?
Uh......Ward's name even appears on the copyright application, yes?
This practice also not being out of the ordinary for agents.

And as far as I know, you're the only one who keeps insisting that the entire tale and all of it's details must be deemed fiction if not everything in that story is true exactly as depicted, even though the publication wasn't filed/copyrighted as such. Again, you're trying to discover the possible alternate solution by researching everything "local" many years after the presented period of 1817-1821/22, obviously still in denial of the strong possibility that Ward was only the agent just as the narration details and just as the copyright application suggest. But then again, you still think St. Louis is in Virginia and that Richmond is in Lynchburg so you may as well keep trying to keep everything local.

I do not believe that ECS, Rebel-KGC or myself have been trying to keep this local. I have searched all newspapers up and down the Ohio River and up the Missouri River to St. Louis, MO. and on up to Franklin, MO. I have searched all documents, journals, diaries and all city, state and national documents such as boats and passenger list, searched US and State Census from Missouri to Louisiana and I have searched everything that can be found in New Orleans, La. and Sante Fe, NM. with all of their Archives. I have even checked on world shipping and pirate activities from Madagascar to China. So don't say we have kept this research local. I have even checked out the Beale Family from their beginnings back to Baal about 6,000 B.C. Also checked on the Beale Family in Pennsylvania and Harpers Ferry as well as in Washington City before it was Washington, D.C. And all the Richmond, Va. to Lynchburg, Va. and Danville, Va. as most Lynchburg citizens lived in Danville, Va. also. So make your boast as you think you are the only poster that has researched out side of Virginia---------WE ALL HAVE.

bigscoop · Oct 19, 2016

franklin said:
I do not believe that ECS, Rebel-KGC or myself have been trying to keep this local. I have searched all newspapers up and down the Ohio River and up the Missouri River to St. Louis, MO. and on up to Franklin, MO. I have searched all documents, journals, diaries and all city, state and national documents such as boats and passenger list, searched US and State Census from Missouri to Louisiana and I have searched everything that can be found in New Orleans, La. and Sante Fe, NM. with all of their Archives. I have even checked on world shipping and pirate activities from Madagascar to China. So don't say we have kept this research local. I have even checked out the Beale Family from their beginnings back to Baal about 6,000 B.C. Also checked on the Beale Family in Pennsylvania and Harpers Ferry as well as in Washington City before it was Washington, D.C. And all the Richmond, Va. to Lynchburg, Va. and Danville, Va. as most Lynchburg citizens lived in Danville, Va. also. So make your boast as you think you are the only poster that has researched out side of Virginia---------WE ALL HAVE.

Not sure why you feel my reply to ECS was directed at you and Rebel? Actually, there are several folks I know of who have/are searching beyond the local, ECS just isn't one of them. :laughing7:

Cryptography · Oct 19, 2016

franklin said:
I do not believe that ECS, Rebel-KGC or myself have been trying to keep this local. I have searched all newspapers up and down the Ohio River and up the Missouri River to St. Louis, MO. and on up to Franklin, MO. I have searched all documents, journals, diaries and all city, state and national documents such as boats and passenger list, searched US and State Census from Missouri to Louisiana and I have searched everything that can be found in New Orleans, La. and Sante Fe, NM. with all of their Archives. I have even checked on world shipping and pirate activities from Madagascar to China. So don't say we have kept this research local. I have even checked out the Beale Family from their beginnings back to Baal about 6,000 B.C. Also checked on the Beale Family in Pennsylvania and Harpers Ferry as well as in Washington City before it was Washington, D.C. And all the Richmond, Va. to Lynchburg, Va. and Danville, Va. as most Lynchburg citizens lived in Danville, Va. also. So make your boast as you think you are the only poster that has researched out side of Virginia---------WE ALL HAVE.

Have you contacted the Beale families in Louisiana? I have a friend there who is working on some papers from some of the kin of Cap Thomas Beale. Most interesting items he found, but I don't think he has put it up on thebealepapers. com yet, but I will ask the 13 year old handicapped boy masterpoe!!!! He seems to be up to date on all that is going on.

ECS · Oct 19, 2016

Someone has made the trip to Rickerville ?
You do realize that it has never been established that Thomas Beale of New Orleans was the character "THOMAS J BEALE" of Ward's 1885 copyrighted BEALE PAPERS dime novel job pamphlet.
The ONLY connection is that this Thomas Beale wounded Ward's grandfather , James Beverly Risqué, in a duel and hit the high road to New Orleans.
That, my friends, is the ONLY "connexion" that Beale has to that adventure/treasure story.

franklin · Oct 19, 2016

Cryptography said:
Have you contacted the Beale families in Louisiana? I have a friend there who is working on some papers from some of the kin of Cap Thomas Beale. Most interesting items he found, but I don't think he has put it up on thebealepapers. com yet, but I will ask the 13 year old handicapped boy masterpoe!!!! He seems to be up to date on all that is going on.

I heard mention of the Ricker Family and Beale Families' Papers were at Tulane University? Don't know for sure? But they would be nice to dig into just to find out if there was a hint of Sr. or Jr. doing any business in Virginia?

ECS · Oct 19, 2016

bigscoop said:
Why would the author's reasons for selecting an agent be fiction? ... But then again, you still think St. Louis is in Virginia and that Richmond is in Lynchburg so you may as well keep trying to keep everything local.

Bigscoop, you do realize that the "author's reasons for selecting an agent" is part of the story, in an final attempt to lure the unwary reader.
Then again, why does that matter because you have stated many, many times that the presented Beale story in the job pamphlet is fiction.
When have I ever stated that St Louis is in Virginia or Richmond is in Lynchburg?
Misrepresenting what I post does not create credibility for BIGSCOOP's HISTORICAL GRAB BAG of unrelated events, people, and locations.

bigscoop · Oct 19, 2016

ECS said:
Bigscoop, you do realize that the "author's reasons for selecting an agent" is part of the story, in an final attempt to lure the unwary reader.

When did the author tell you this? :laughing7:

According to what I read in my copy of the narration the author simply selected Ward to be the agent, there is nothing in my narration claiming he did so "in a final attempt to lure the unwary reader." Are you sure you're reading the right narration? :icon_scratch:

Oh, wait, you're borrowing quote from somebody else again....I should have known as much. :laughing7:

ECS · Oct 19, 2016

Bigscoop, is English is your first language?
You either don't comprehend what is written or you are just being obstinate in your misrepresentations to further these endless non connections of grab bag history.

bigscoop · Oct 19, 2016

ECS said:
Bigscoop, is English is your first language?
You either don't comprehend what is written or you are just being obstinate in your misrepresentations to further these endless non connections of grab bag history.

Well, I'm glad you went there, actually... :laughing7:

....as just with all of your post you continue to put words into the narration that aren't there, at all. The following was your statement: "Bigscoop, you do realize that the "author's reasons for selecting an agent" is part of the story, in an final attempt to lure the unwary reader."

Please, tell everyone where the author makes this claim, that "he selected Ward in a final attempt to lure the unwary reader?"

Obviously, not only can't you comprehend English, but you apparently can't write and understand what you're writing either. :laughing7:

And per more example; "Obstinate in your misrepresentations"....just as usual, you continue to call yourself out with every post, just like this one. :icon_thumright:

And, "to lure the weary reader" was the opinion of who? We both know these aren't your own words and where they came from and it ain't you, is it. :laughing7:

So I've just been letting you post away, even encouraging it, all the while you just keep dismantling your own theory and revealing your true nature with every post. :laughing7:

Now if I'm wrong, then please, show us all where in the narration where the author makes the claim that "he selected Ward as agent in a final attempt to lure the weary reader." And if you can't......then probably best just to leave it alone and leave the tail on the donkey. :laughing7:

ECS · Oct 19, 2016

ECS said:
Bigscoop, you do realize that the "author's reasons for selecting an agent" is part of the story, in an final attempt to lure the unwary reader.
Then again, why does that matter because you have stated many, many times that the presented Beale story in the job pamphlet is fiction...

I was paraphrasing your question on post #442, for it seems that as an unwary reader, you don't realize that his seeking an agent for his manuscript, is PART of that manuscript and has he included himself into the narrative story, he has also included his "chosen" agent into the story.
Once again, why does it matter because with all your varied "REAL" stories behind the fictional Beale story you claim was presented in the 1885 BEALE PAPERS?

bigscoop · Oct 19, 2016

ECS said:
I was paraphrasing your question on post #442, for it seems that as an unwary reader, you don't realize that his seeking an agent for his manuscript, is PART of that manuscript and has he included himself into the narrative story, he has also included his "chosen" agent into the story.
Once again, why does it matter because with all your varied "REAL" stories behind the fictional Beale story you claim was presented in the 1885 BEALE PAPERS?

Uh....yes, he spoke in first voice regarding himself and also clearly explained his reasons for choosing an agent. But everyone already knows all of this. :laughing7:

And you seem to have a hard time with the notion of a "progressive theory" that is subject to change dependent on the additional information gathered, which is sort of the whole process of theories and how most theories continue to develop. :laughing7:

"Unwary reader?"......how do you know this isn't you? I mean, if I'm correct, and the author did pen his narration for two entirely different audiences, then who's the unwary reader now? :notworthy:

And "yes", I've been awaiting an appropriate moment to flip that around on you. :laughing7:

Look, none of this is life or death to me as it appears to be for you because alternate truth or otherwise there is nothing to be gained in the end anyway. For me it's just personal interest and "a lot" of entertainment.

ECS · Oct 19, 2016

bigscoop said:
...

"Unwary reader?"......how do you know this isn't you? I mean, if I'm correct, and the author did pen his narration for two entirely different audiences, then who's the unwary reader now?...

Look, none of this is life or death to me as it appears to be for you because alternate truth or otherwise there is nothing to be gained in the end anyway. For me it's just personal interest and "a lot" of entertainment.

The point is that is was created as entertainment for profit.
There is no evidence that it was created for TWO different audiences, that is your assumption.
...and yes, "nothing is real, and nothing to get hung about"- THE BEATLES

bigscoop · Oct 19, 2016

ECS said:
The point is that is was created as entertainment for profit.

No....and that's what's so enjoyable about letting you post away and even encouraging it, all the while completely dismantling yourself in the process. "The point is that is was created as entertainment for profit." Is it coming to you yet.....? :laughing7:

"Hello Huston!" :laughing7:

ECS · Oct 19, 2016

That is why I keep requesting you to present the connection to the 1885 Beale Papers.
Yes, Houston, as well as Galveston, New Orleans, Bigscoop has a problem.

bigscoop · Oct 20, 2016

ECS said:
That is why I keep requesting you to present the connection to the 1885 Beale Papers.
Yes, Houston, as well as Galveston, New Orleans, Bigscoop has a problem.

....no, and that's been even more enjoyable, for me at least, and a few others......as that connection is there and has even been directly referenced on more then occasion. Don't blame me because you're still in denial and refusing to go there. :laughing7:

So let me lead you towards it again....."Thomas J. Beale"....."important business affairs in Richmond." :laughing7:

franklin · Oct 20, 2016

bigscoop said:
Not sure why you feel my reply to ECS was directed at you and Rebel? Actually, there are several folks I know of who have/are searching beyond the local, ECS just isn't one of them.

No you have repeatedly posted that us locals keep trying to solve the Beale Treasure Mystery on local facts. You have repeatedly said that we do not think outside the box. I am here to tell you that belittling one poster such as ECS you not only are attacking him but all of us local researchers that live near the Lynchburg, Va. area. All ECS has asked you is to bring out the facts whether documents or papers but all you bring forward is your beliefs-------I believe this happened because this happened somewhere on Galveston Island in Texas. We need a connection and you are not delivering it? Hints of information strung out or together does not make a fact. Give us a connection with all of your research to the Beale Papers or you are only blowing steam and not the cast iron lids off the pots.

Rebel - KGC · Oct 20, 2016

AGREE!

ECS · Oct 20, 2016

franklin said:
...I believe this happened because this happened somewhere on Galveston Island in Texas. We need a connection and you are not delivering it? Hints of information strung out or together does not make a fact. Give us a connection with all of your research to the Beale Papers or you are only blowing steam and not the cast iron lids off the pots.

It is very possible that Bigscoop has gone so far from the story in the 1885 Beale Papers, he hasn't been able to create a "connexion" and so he once again resorts to posting quotes from the job pamphlet("important business affairs in Richmond") to insert the good Jackson Ward Alderman back into this historical grab bag theory.