Brass spike and copper sheathing.

[Small Adventures]

Hi.
I recently found the site of a couple of ship wrecks and have found quite a few interesting things.
I was wondering if there was anyone in this forum who knows anything about the makers stamp and the brass spike.

 

[PetesPockets55]

Welcome to the forum.

Nice finds. You might get q little quicker response over at the "Today's Finds" forum. It'll be interesting to see what else you find. I'm guessing these were found on Cape Cod?
We've had some of the smaller musket balls like your finds show up recently (Florida).

 

[Radon]

I think he's probably from Plymouth, UK, not Plymouth, MA, USA. You can find similar finds both places, I expect.

 

[Small Adventures]

I found them inside the breakwater, in one of the bays.

 

[Small Adventures]

Yes, it could be from anywhere, and that is what I find most fascinating about wrecks.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Hi.
I recently found the site of a couple of ship wrecks and have found quite a few interesting things.
I was wondering if there was anyone in this forum who knows anything about the makers stamp and the brass spike.

Looks like British Admiralty sheathing.

The MR stands for Mines Royal.
Warr'd: warranted
Oct 1795 or 1793 is the date the sheathing was fitted
And it is (or was) 28 oz. per sheet of copper alloy.

Since you are from Plymouth, I would hazard a guess that this might be a relic from HMS Severn. But that's just a guess. Obviously if the sheathing is stamped 1795 this cannot be the case.

 

[Small Adventures]

Thank you very much for the reply and information.

 

[Crow]

Thank you very much for the reply and information.

Gidday Paul

Did you ever figure out what 7 inch spike was for? ( pictures 4 and 5 )

Crow

 

[Crow]

Looks like British Admiralty sheathing.

The MR stands for Mines Royal.
Warr'd: warranted
Oct 1795 or 1793 is the date the sheathing was fitted
And it is (or was) 28 oz. per sheet of copper alloy.

Since you are from Plymouth, I would hazard a guess that this might be a relic from HMS Severn. But that's just a guess. Obviously if the sheathing is stamped 1795 this cannot be the case.

If that is so. The Copper for the sheathing came from Parrys mountain in Wales. Was used right up until mid 19th century when it succeeded by Muntz Metal. Muntz Metal is a form of alpha-beta brass with about 60% copper, 40% zinc and a trace of iron. It is named after George Fredrick Muntz, a metal-roller of Birmingham, England, who commercialised the alloy following his patent of 1832.

The metal was more brittle than soft copper sheathing and came from memory in 3 thickness depending on what part of the hull was sheaved. Wear was mainly on the bow and bottom of the hull had the most friction. thus a variation in thickness of sheathing was invented to have a even rate of wear on vessels. Muntz metal was Patented and had a stamp on each sheet.

However looking a the sheathing it looks like copper that might help giving a date some time before the 1840's By 1850's most British built ships was using Muntz metal to sheath their vessels.

That said the copper sheathing looking very clean like it has been cleaned up?

Crow

 

[Small Adventures]

No, that's how I found the sheathing, although I did unfold it. It was under a thick layer of mud.

 

[Small Adventures]

No, that's why I asked about the spike too.It looks as though it's made from 3 parts. That was under thick mud too.

 

[Small Adventures]

Gidday Paul

Did you ever figure out what 7 inch spike was for? ( pictures 4 and 5 )

Crow

I've been using the SHIPS project database, but there have been so many wrecks on that stretch of rocks it could be a mixture from them all.

 

[ARC]

 

[Small Adventures]

View attachment 1879396

Thank you, I'll up load some of the pieces. They are concertina folded where I think it went aground.

 

[Crow]

No, that's how I found the sheathing, although I did unfold it. It was under a thick layer of mud.

Gidday Paul

The thick mud must of had low oxygen levels in the mud thus preserved the copper sheathing from oxidation. Usually when exposed to harsh saltwater oxygenated environment over time the copper goes from green to black.

Good point you made of the possibility of cross contamination of different shipwrecks? But it could also could be possible a long serving ship had a mixture of components replaced over time. Thus straddling a transitioning period of various shipbuilding technologies.





I am interested in your spike . As it mirrors one I have not the one in the picture above.That vessel collectedly dated around 1830's to 1840's period.

Try to hunt down a the following book

McCarthy, M. 2005. Ships’ Fastenings: From Sewn Boat to Steamship. Texas A&M University Press. He has a very detailed description of the types and nature of fastenings, historical context, and much more.

Crow

 

[Small Adventures]

Gidday Paul

The thick mud must of had low oxygen levels in the mud thus preserved the copper sheathing from oxidation. Usually when exposed to harsh saltwater oxygenated environment over time the copper goes from green to black.

Good point you made of the possibility of cross contamination of different shipwrecks? But it could also could be possible a long serving ship had a mixture of components replaced over time. Thus straddling a transitioning period of various shipbuilding technologies.

View attachment 1879423

View attachment 1879428

I am interested in your spike . As it mirrors one I have not the one in the picture above.That vessel collectedly dated around 1830's to 1840's period.

Try to hunt down a the following book

McCarthy, M. 2005. Ships’ Fastenings: From Sewn Boat to Steamship. Texas A&M University Press. He has a very detailed description of the types and nature of fastenings, historical context, and much more.

Crow

I'll take some closer pictures when I've finished work.

 

[Small Adventures]

Spike.

More detailed pictures of the spike.

 

[Crow]

Gidday Paul

At first I thought it was chisel? It has the same two side point. Same length etc. Mine was recovered from a shipwreck in the Pacific in 2014. The vessel in question struck a coral reef tearing the ship to pieces. My piece was broken in two gives and indication of how violent the sea can be. I have some diagrams and picture to help give you better understanding of how they was used in construction. I am on my phone at present I have to get back to my office and search my files.

Crow

 

[Jolly Mon]

There is nothing incompatible with the copper alloy sheathing and the copper alloy spike. The British began retrofitting all their warships with bronze fasteners by 1786 precisely because of the introduction of copper sheathing. While the possibility of cross contamination can not be ruled out, more than likely you have relics from a British warship that sank sometime after Oct 1793 or 1795.

Can you tell if the small tacks used to fasten the sheathing to the hull are hand made or machine made?

Also, look very closely...there is a chance you might see a mark on a spike...

 

[Crow]

Gidday Paul

Here is a picture of the spike below



Crow