Bridge Claim Question

[Rail Dawg]

Ok so this year the BLM says we can pay our claim maintenance fees as late as September 4th due to the Labor Day weekend.

That’s not the way I see the law but they put that out anyway. We pay ours well in advance via the BLM Pay Portal to be safe.

I did have a question about filing a COL on Sept 1st of this year.

With that memo the BLM put out I assume that filing a COL on Sept 1st won’t make it a Bridge Claim right? I can’t find the relevant law.

Any insights appreciated.

 

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[Clay Diggins]

It's not the date you file the Certificate of Location that matters it's the day you staked the claim that starts the clock. The recording at the County and the required FLPMA informational filing are just additional acts required after locating (staking) your claim.

If you staked at any time prior to September 1 you are in a bridge claim situation. Double the money double the fun!

Heavy Pans

 

[Rail Dawg]

It's not the date you file the Certificate of Location that matters it's the day you staked the claim that starts the clock. The recording at the County and the required FLPMA informational filing are just additional acts required after locating (staking) your claim.

If you staked at any time prior to September 1 you are in a bridge claim situation. Double the money double the fun!

Heavy Pans

My mistake Clay. I meant to say the Notice of Location but thanks for a good answer.

Let me shift gears and ask you something as this issue has come up for a friend.

Our friend forgot to file his FLPMA paperwork by Dec. 31 of last year and lost the claims that had been in his family for 3 generations.

However someone came in Nov. of last year and put an NOL on our friends still-valid claims. This someone then filed a COL in February right at the 90-day mark.

This is illegal isn’t it as you obviously have to make a discovery in order to place an NOL correct? Prospecting in order to place a NOL on someone’s valid claim would void the whole process?

Our friend quickly re-located his claims but now there is currently a top-filing issue.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Clay Diggins]

It's not illegal to top file someone else it's unlawful. There is a big difference there. The top filer did not commit a crime they put a cloud on the mineral title of the senior claimant. The senior claimant has the right and the duty to keep their title clear, that's part of the possessory right to the claim.

All that appears to be of no consequence now that the senior claimant forgot to complete their annual maintenance obligation. They well and truly lost the claim by their own lack of action.

So the question is dangling there. Does the top filer now have a valid claim? Briefly, all other things being equal, - yes.

The topfilers original claim was located after September 1st and the failure of the senior claimant made the senior claim invalid back to September 1st. So the land was open to prospecting and location in November and the "top filer" wasn't filing over an active claim.

The proof of labor BLM deadline is December 30th - not the 31st. There is no grace period, filings on the 31st will result in an abandoned (closed) claim.

Heavy Pans

 

[Rail Dawg]

As always a great lesson Clay.

Thank you.

 

[Rail Dawg]

The topfilers original claim was located after September 1st and the failure of the senior claimant made the senior claim invalid back to September 1st. So the land was open to prospecting and location in November and the "top filer" wasn't filing over an active claim.

This is a real sticking point on the issues we're helping to resolve.

Clay are you certain of your above statement?

The BLM legal folks say that the original claimant (small miner waiver) has possession of the claim until Dec. 30 and if they don't file the required FLPMA paperwork by Dec 30 then the claim is abandoned (closed). It doesn't back-date to Sept 01.

From what we understand if/when this goes to court the judge puts a high value on the opinion of the BLM.

We value your opinion and know that the BLM can be wrong in their interpretation of mining law.

 

[Clay Diggins]

This is a real sticking point on the issues we're helping to resolve.

Clay are you certain of your above statement?

The BLM legal folks say that the original claimant (small miner waiver) has possession of the claim until Dec. 30 and if they don't file the required FLPMA paperwork by Dec 30 then the claim is abandoned (closed). It doesn't back-date to Sept 01.

From what we understand if/when this goes to court the judge puts a high value on the opinion of the BLM.

We value your opinion and know that the BLM can be wrong in their interpretation of mining law.

I am very sure. I am also sure the BLM will not be in court nor will they provide testimony.

I am sure the small miner's federal mining year ends on September 1 at 12:01 am.

Section 28 of title 30, United States Code, is amended: (1) in section 28 by striking the phrase ``shall commence at 12 o'clock meridian on the 1st day of September'' and inserting ``shall commence at 12:01 ante meridian on the first day of September'

I am sure the Affadavit of Labor deadline in Nevada is November 1.

On or before November 1 of the year for which labor is performed or improvements are made as required by law for a mining claim annually, the person in whose behalf the labor was performed or improvements made, or someone in the person’s behalf, shall make and have recorded by the county recorder, in books kept for that purpose in the county in which the mining claim is situated, an affidavit...

Also from the above link you might want to make the Nevada Judge aware of the LAW in Nevada (Judicial Notice) as to when a claim is legally in possession of the claimant.

An affidavit made and recorded pursuant to subsection 3 or a copy thereof, certified by the county recorder, is prima facie evidence that the owner or claimant of the mining claim intended to hold the claim from 12 p.m. on September 1 of the year before the affidavit was made and recorded, until 11:59 a.m. on September 1 of the year that the affidavit was made and recorded.

I am equally sure there is no such thing as a federal mining year that ends on December 30.

I think it's time for your people to find a competent lawyer and stop relying on random statements made by BLM personal with no iron in the fire. BLM personal can't be held responsible for giving you bad information no matter how much damage they cause. Stick to the law and the facts and the issues will be clear. Keep relying on BLM statements and regulations and you will remain confused.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

BLM regulation

CFR §3836.15
What happens if I fail to perform required assessment work?
If you are required to perform assessment work and you fail to perform the assessment work as required in this part, your claim is open to relocation by a rival claimant as if no location had ever been made

Seems the BLM "legal" didn't even bother to read their own regulations.

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

At the County as well.

If A locator files a smw and proof of labor at BLM.

But, doesn't do it at the county by the deadline. It essentially is an abandoned claim..

Right?

 

[bug]

Wow great info Clay!
Goldwasher, I've seen some claims only being filed annually at BLM.
No county recording.
Im not sure how that even passes through the system, but BLM still lists their claims as open.

 

[okbasspro]

Wow great info Clay!
Goldwasher, I've seen some claims only being filed annually at BLM.
No county recording.
Im not sure how that even passes through the system, but BLM still lists their claims as open.

Same thing going on where my claims are. A LLC is only filing at BLM not county. But then again we have a big club over filing claims to.

 

[Goldwasher]

Wow great info Clay!
Goldwasher, I've seen some claims only being filed annually at BLM.
No county recording.
Im not sure how that even passes through the system, but BLM still lists their claims as open.

They told me they "check" but they don't always "close" claims right away.

 

[Rail Dawg]

I am very sure. I am also sure the BLM will not be in court nor will they provide testimony.

I am sure the small miner's federal mining year ends on September 1 at 12:01 am.


I am sure the Affadavit of Labor deadline in Nevada is November 1.


Also from the above link you might want to make the Nevada Judge aware of the LAW in Nevada (Judicial Notice) as to when a claim is legally in possession of the claimant.


I am equally sure there is no such thing as a federal mining year that ends on December 30.

I think it's time for your people to find a competent lawyer and stop relying on random statements made by BLM personal with no iron in the fire. BLM personal can't be held responsible for giving you bad information no matter how much damage they cause. Stick to the law and the facts and the issues will be clear. Keep relying on BLM statements and regulations and you will remain confused.

Heavy Pans

Clay thanks for this.

I would venture most claimants don't have to delve this deeply into the law but in this particular case they absolutely have to.

Good points about the BLM. I did not know this.

It appears very clear now what the law states unfortunately this is going to be either a) tied up in the court or b) allowed to fester for the foreseeable future.

Your wisdom is again appreciated and it appears taking care to make all deadlines can save a lot of time, money and aggravation.

 

[mikep691]

Clay thanks for this.

I would venture most claimants don't have to delve this deeply into the law but in this particular case they absolutely have to.

Good points about the BLM. I did not know this.

It appears very clear now what the law states unfortunately this is going to be either a) tied up in the court or b) allowed to fester for the foreseeable future.

Your wisdom is again appreciated and it appears taking care to make all deadlines can save a lot of time, money and aggravation.

BINGO, Rail Dawg. My former job took me to Sacramento three days a week so I hand carried my stuff on the last day, both in August and December. Mostly just because I'm lazy, but it got done on time. Now I have to file with the county by end of November just to get a certified copy for BLM, and I always send by Priority mail, or "Certified" . That way they have to sign for it and it gets entered in the system faster. My stuff was entered a week ago on LR2000, even a spelling correction. I do the assessment later now that my property tax has doubled, and it's not due in Commiefornia until Dec. 30.

When BLM sends the "Yellow" envelope, it's time to get it done. Just don't believe any dates they give you. It's always before Sep 1, and what ever your state deems for the labor assessment.