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Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

PikesPeakCharlie

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Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

I'm still in shock :o My brother & I driving down the street , see a large roll away dumpster sitting in front of an old building ,,,, turned around to take a look ,,,,,, Wow !!!!!!!!!!! :o this thing was full of antique papers,books,just all kinds of stuff. :tongue3: I will try to make a long story short. With permission from the job supervisor we each carried away 2 box's of stuff. Digging through it yesterday, I found I had 3 old books on the history of America/United States. #1 Copyright 1883 ,"America its history & biography. #2 copyright 1895 ,"History of the United States". #3 Copyright 1910(3rd printing,the first was 1899) "A History of the United States". What great books with just tons of illustrations.
The main focus of this story is the 1883 book, what a treasure trove of our history & many treasure/detecting leads, Anyway flipping through the pages I came across a piece of paper stuck in between the pages,,,,reading it my jaw dropped ,,, was I looking at Buffalo Bills signature from Deadwood Dakota 1865, Flipped a few more pages and was looking at Kit Carson's signature :o In my mind *&^&*%$# What did I just find !!!!! Now ,I guess its time to do some research,was Buffalo Bill in Deadwood in 1865 ????? are they real ?????? OH BOY A NEW TREASURE HUNT :headbang: We just never know what will pop up next !! If you do not look ,,, You will never find. HH to all
 

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Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

Miss Waltmann must have really got around, all the way from Dakota to southern Colorado, through some very hostile country. May of 1868 Kit Carson died, at Bent's second fort on the Arkansas, near what is now Lamar, Colorado. His signature looks to me like he used a C instead of a K, signing his name C Carson.
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

MLW67,
You are correct, same author. The giveaway is the "e" at the end of "line" and the 3rd "e" in "remember" on the other card. Two different people would not have had the same variation from the norm. He also spelled "Waltman" differently, perhaps on purpose. My gues is the author of both is Wild Bill Hickok. Does anyone have his signature for comparison?
Bob
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

I agree that the signatures don't seem to match the ones we can find online, but I disagree about it being the same author. I've read through so many 19th century censuses that I am very familiar with the writing of the time. The two "e" styles are very common, neither varies from the norm of the time. And it was common to mix and match them within a sentence.

She, nor Kit Carson, did not need to have lived in the Dakota Territory just because it was mentioned in Buffalo Bill's card. She could have written away for the autographs, like many young ladies of my mother's generation did for their favorite movie stars. They may have had people sign them for them? Perhaps Cody and Carson were both in a Wild West show together at some time and a relative got them for her? (Either real or "faux" autographs).

I think that they definitely tell a story, although you may have some trouble figuring out what that is. Did anything else from the dumpster have the family name in it?
Tigger
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

Charlie- That is too cool that you come across something like this. Overall, very interesting! The mystery continues. :read2:

J.
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

WOW!!!!!!! Super cool. Sounds like a job for the history detectives. Give them a call, might make for a real cool episode. :icon_thumright:
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

Gooood Morning everyone :icon_sunny: Talked to my brother last night & he has an old autograph book in one of his box's,all the autographs were to Miss Waltmann,no other famous names that we recognized. I,m not sure about this. I agree the BB signature looks nothing like the ones I found on the Internet. I agree the hand writing is very similar ,yet different also,on both pages. A friend who is 90,said sometimes people(maybe Miss Waltmann)would practice handwriting/caligraphy in their autograph books,this could be the case,or it could be some of the ideas in the above post's. But right now it might look like they are forgeries :-\ If they are what a bummer !! Wonder how much I,m going to have to give up to trade my brother out of the autograph book ??? :icon_pirat: Have not done any reaserach on the Kit Carson signature yet. Thanks for all the replies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think the final say will be when I can take them to an expert.Can't wait to see the whole autograph book to compare the hand writing. HH , I will update when I get my hands on the book.
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

The Rebel said:
WOW!!!!!!! Super cool. Sounds like a job for the history detectives. Give them a call, might make for a real cool episode. :icon_thumright:
:icon_thumleft: :wink: :headbang: Love that show !!!!!!
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

Interesting Finds!

I can't get over how much Deadwood looks like Dradwood on BB's signiture line. So I googled Dradwood and found this artical written in 1887.
 

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Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

AWSOME FIND TIM EVEN IF THE AUTOGRAPHS ARE NOT THE REAL THING.
CONGRATS!!!!!!
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

That definately looks more like an "r" than an "e" to me in Dradwood.
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

Scortch said:
Interesting Finds!

I can't get over how much Deadwood looks like Dradwood on BB's signiture line. So I googled Dradwood and found this artical written in 1887.
I've been looking at "Deadwood" with the loop,and am almost (99%) positive it does say "Dradwood" I did not notice that !! Thanks !! also thanks for sharing the article,gives me something else to look towards. Miss Waltmann sure might have been a "pretender" or they were sent off for or some of the other excellent theroies put forth here. Thanks to all !!!! more to come when I can get my hands on the autograph book.
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

One other thing to consider, I think that "Dakota" was written as "Dakota Territory" pretty exclusively, but I may be wrong on that. What I am not wrong on is how fun and interesting the "True" story of the finding of the books and cards and investigating the "forgeries" is. And I am sure the story will get better.

On "Dreadwood", I suspect that it is a "typo" as Deadwood had been around for 15 years by 1887. Or perhaps Miss Waltman saw the same article and back dated it, using the typo out of ignorance? I think that the location and the time was too well documented to not know that it could have been called Dreadwood at some point of time.

You have any other dates in the autograph book?
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson Show up in a dumpster **UPDATE NEW PICS**

Well I finally got the autograph book out of my brother. The BB & Kit Carson "fantasies" obviously came from this book. Not at all sure why the 2 were stuck in the history book. But going by the signatures I found online,they are fantasies :( Miss Minne Waltmann sure might have been a "pretender" . I've include pic's of all the autographs that are in the book,some were her teachers,some friends,some ?? it seems she lived in Maysville Pa. Does anyone recognize any of the names. Well I didnt end up with some historic or authentic signatures,but we did find a little treasure trove of old books and papers,from the 1880s up to around 1905 :headbang: HH DONT PASS UP THOSE DUMPSTERS !!
 

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Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

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Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

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Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

Thats just an incredible save whatever comes of the research. Is it just me or can you guys smell the "oldness" of those books :tongue3: Nice saves!!! jgas
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

I didn't squint very hard but it looks to me like all the dates on pages you have posted are way-way after the date on the BB page. That is kind of telling.
 
Re: Buffalo Bill & Kit Carson + 3 Historys of America Show up in a dumpster

What a great find!!! :headbang: Just a thought though what if the last autographs were like a school year book where your friends sign? I am proberly wrong but it is a thought. anyway congrats !!
 

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