Building a highbanker

[roadrunner]

I take it you are looking for a suction pump to use?
I thought that dredges use a clear water pump, then the pressure from the hose shoots into the nozzle, back towards the dredge. This causes the the suction.
The back flow of water into the hose.
So your pump would need only 4-5 feet of suction line, or more if you where fartther from water, but not if you put the pump next to the water source.
Then your dredge hose would be 12 feet long or so.

 

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[kazcoro]

Yes, what you are saying is what I am trying to say. I spoke with the guy I mentioned to you, and he says I can run 20', so I am back in the dredge game then. He has a call into Pat keene right now to see if he can find me a pump cheap.

 

[Tophunt]

Well, I was kind of meaning posted pictures, but if you need help, I'm ready for that. Keeping in mind I've never done it before. Sounds like fun.

 

[kazcoro]

Got my mat from Doc today. Got it cut and installed. I looked over the length of the sluice. Originally, I intended on cutting the end of it off after installing mats, but I have been thinking about the punch plate I fabricated and this is the conclusion I came to. With 1/4" holes in it, material would fall into and under it and not be able to get out. So, I would have to notch it out in the middle so material could flow out of it. And, if I put my mat all the way up to the top of the sluice, I would only get 36" of run, but about 9" of it would be buried under the punch plate. But, if I made a crash plate, or slick plate, I could start the mat just under the end of the crash plate. That way, no material would get hung up under the crash plate, and I would get a true 36" run of Doc's mats. So, crash plate it was. I bolted the mats down just under the end of the crash plate. Then, I bolted the sluice to the stand. Everything looks really good and squares up nicely. I put Doc's sticker on the end of the header box, and the unit looks store bought. Here are some pics. Enjoy.

 

[kazcoro]

Next step is to make adjustment holes for different angles on the header box. Also, pump and hoses,nozzle. I spoke with Keene today, and they will be able to supply me with a pump to match my engine.

 

[kazcoro]

I made a test run last night. Found that the angle was too steep for the garden hose. I adjusted the angle of the hopper. That helped some, but would need to run two garden hoses at the same time to get anywhere close to the flow I need. I found that my slick plate collects material under it. I have been thinking about it all day, and can not figure out how to close off the sides of it and still be able to remove it for cleanup. Prob just have to deal with it. I think I will need to get longer legs for it. The angle that I need for the mats to work properly will dictate that I won't be able to use it for a recirc. Can't get it high enough off the ground to put a tub of any size under it. I am still waiting for my engine to get here so I can get Keene to make a me a pump for it.

 

[kazcoro]

What do you guys think so far?

 

[SLNugget]

I made a test run last night. Found that the angle was too steep for the garden hose. I adjusted the angle of the hopper. That helped some, but would need to run two garden hoses at the same time to get anywhere close to the flow I need. I found that my slick plate collects material under it. I have been thinking about it all day, and can not figure out how to close off the sides of it and still be able to remove it for cleanup. Prob just have to deal with it. I think I will need to get longer legs for it. The angle that I need for the mats to work properly will dictate that I won't be able to use it for a recirc. Can't get it high enough off the ground to put a tub of any size under it. I am still waiting for my engine to get here so I can get Keene to make a me a pump for it.

What about increasing volume and flow of the water so you do not need so much angle. Be a shame not to be able to recirc IMHO.

 

[kazcoro]

I am actually thinking that I will need to get a small dedicated recirc unit to use in the desert. Just save this unit for highbanking and dredging where there is a ton of water.

 

[Jeff95531]

I made a test run last night. Found that the angle was too steep for the garden hose. I adjusted the angle of the hopper. That helped some, but would need to run two garden hoses at the same time to get anywhere close to the flow I need. I found that my slick plate collects material under it. I have been thinking about it all day, and can not figure out how to close off the sides of it and still be able to remove it for cleanup. Prob just have to deal with it. I think I will need to get longer legs for it. The angle that I need for the mats to work properly will dictate that I won't be able to use it for a recirc. Can't get it high enough off the ground to put a tub of any size under it. I am still waiting for my engine to get here so I can get Keene to make a me a pump for it.

I think it looks really good kazcoro! All of these new things that popped up for you made me smile and remember my build. Legs too short, flow and tub and filter problems etc. And once you get those fixed, new ones will show up for sure. Keep at it...I like to say "it's not finished but it's closer than it ever was".

What about some miners moss under the slick plate and up the sides? It would seal the edges and catch anything that did make it by AND easily cleaned. Can't wait for the video!

 

[kazcoro]

The mat has "sidetape" that seals it to the edges of the sluice. The only problem (so far) is that the area directly underneath the slick plate filled up with material. Any plans to use this monstrocity as a recirc is out the window. This thing is way to big and will need so much water that a recirc just won't cut it. So, I picked up a really cool little 12v recirc today. Pretty innovative design.

 

[kazcoro]

Got my engine yesterday. The only problem is that it is a keyed shaft. I had contacted Keene, and they said that they can custom make a pump for me if I get the inside of the shaft threaded. Now, I have to call Keene back and find out what they want it threaded to.

 

[roadrunner]

Harbour freight has a 2inch clear water pump/engine combo for $179.
Would this work, or does it have to be a high capacity, or flow water pump.
I was thinking of buying this when I have some extra money for a high banker, and a dredge combo.
Not sure what nozzle I would use yet.
My son wants a dredge.
There are 2 styles of nozzles, or systems. A power nozzle, and suction.
Here is a link on how they work, with a pic at top of article.

What Nozzle

 

[kazcoro]

Harbour freight has a 2inch clear water pump/engine combo for $179.
Would this work, or does it have to be a high capacity, or flow water pump.
I was thinking of buying this when I have some extra money for a high banker, and a dredge combo.
Not sure what nozzle I would use yet.
My son wants a dredge.
There are 2 styles of nozzles, or systems. A power nozzle, and suction.
Here is a link on how they work, with a pic at top of article.

What Nozzle

It has to be high pressure. Those pumps will work for highbanking, but not for dredging. To compare it, it would be like trying to take a decal off a truck with a garden hose versus a pressure washer. I am trying to make a versatile machine. That way, I can run the pump on idle to highbank, or crank it up to dredge. I am still hoping I can make it dryland dredge as well. To do that, I will install a "y" fitting before the nozzle, and divert some of the water to the hole I make in the ground. That way, there will be a slurry to suck up. The jet nozzle won't work for me, because every time the nozzle leaves the water, I need to re-prime. With a suction nozzle, I can do shallow water dredging without fear of losing suction. Also a necessity for dryland dredging. The problem I have right now is figuring out how to mount the pump I don't have to the engine that I do have. The engine I have has a keyed shaft, and all the pumps take a threaded shaft. I need someone to hold my hand through the whole lovejoy connector fiasco.

 

[roadrunner]

Are the threads on the pump female, or male?
All you need is an adapter, either use a threaded coupler for outside threads, or a bolt for inside threads, and then have it welded to a sleeve that has a key-way in it.
When welding the sleeve to the adapter, it will have to be tacked, then put on a lathe to ensure straightness, and then tacked, ect until it is done.
I have a lathe and welder if I know the rest of the dimensions I could make one.
But strength of the weld would be critical.
There must be an adapter already made for this. I am sure this has come up before.
Another way I have done it on the engines I convert for Radio Control airplanes is to use a sleeve. and drill anywhere from 1-3 holes in the sleeve, and tap some threads for allen head set screws, and screw them into the keyway.
So the sleeve gets the setscrews and go into the grove on the keyed shaft.

 

[elgatodelnoche]

IdahoJake: I love your build............and your avatar! No fries for you!!

kazcoro: I love your build too! Thanks for this thread. LOL @ lovejoy connection. Sounds like a good pickup line.

 

[omnicron]

Kaz, first of I'm going to be honest, ok? Do away with the slick plate, its not needed. Just let the slurry fall onto the sluice and run down from there. Move the mats up to the top, UR first under a piece of punch plate. Use nuts and bolts to set your gap, use a piece of angle to secure the mat and be happy. As hoser says KISS (keep it simple stupid), I also don't see where your tailing from your hopper are exiting. Are you just going to shovel in and out?
As for pumps, you can use the Harbor freight 2" clear water pump for a dredge. Even set up with a hydroforce type of nozzle. Just keep your suction hose from the nozzle to the sluice at around 15 feet. A idea for a hydro force type of setup would be to wye the water at the pump, run a second hose to where you want to dredge and just have the water run into the hole. Or you could buy a regular suction nozzle, cut and modify the supply with a diverter valve and make your own. I don't recommend trying to build your own suction nozzle. While it's possible and easy to do with a understanding of how they work, your just asking for a long list of issues.

A high pressure pump while nice to have is good for longer hoses and going deeper. Use the other motor you bought to run a hookah compressor. You said you would not be going deeper then waist deep but unless your bedrock is at that level, your missing all the best gold. Doesn't make since to only go half way.

 

[omnicron]

Are the threads on the pump female, or male?
All you need is an adapter, either use a threaded coupler for outside threads, or a bolt for inside threads, and then have it welded to a sleeve that has a key-way in it.
When welding the sleeve to the adapter, it will have to be tacked, then put on a lathe to ensure straightness, and then tacked, ect until it is done.
I have a lathe and welder if I know the rest of the dimensions I could make one.
But strength of the weld would be critical.
There must be an adapter already made for this. I am sure this has come up before.
Another way I have done it on the engines I convert for Radio Control airplanes is to use a sleeve. and drill anywhere from 1-3 holes in the sleeve, and tap some threads for allen head set screws, and screw them into the keyway.
So the sleeve gets the setscrews and go into the grove on the keyed shaft.

RR, the cranks are threaded male, the pumps are threaded female. You cant get away with a lovejoy connection with a direct mount pump, well not without some major fab mounting. Free standing pumps would use a lovejoy connection though. OP's best bet would be a hf clear water pump.

 

[kazcoro]

Kaz, first of I'm going to be honest, ok? Do away with the slick plate, its not needed. Just let the slurry fall onto the sluice and run down from there. Move the mats up to the top, UR first under a piece of punch plate. Use nuts and bolts to set your gap, use a piece of angle to secure the mat and be happy. As hoser says KISS (keep it simple stupid), I also don't see where your tailing from your hopper are exiting. Are you just going to shovel in and out?
As for pumps, you can use the Harbor freight 2" clear water pump for a dredge. Even set up with a hydroforce type of nozzle. Just keep your suction hose from the nozzle to the sluice at around 15 feet. A idea for a hydro force type of setup would be to wye the water at the pump, run a second hose to where you want to dredge and just have the water run into the hole. Or you could buy a regular suction nozzle, cut and modify the supply with a diverter valve and make your own. I don't recommend trying to build your own suction nozzle. While it's possible and easy to do with a understanding of how they work, your just asking for a long list of issues.

A high pressure pump while nice to have is good for longer hoses and going deeper. Use the other motor you bought to run a hookah compressor. You said you would not be going deeper then waist deep but unless your bedrock is at that level, your missing all the best gold. Doesn't make since to only go half way.

I have planned on eliminating the slick plate altogether. I ordered some more UR mat. The back of the hopper has a big space for the tailings to run out. I don't know if you saw it, but I cut half inch slots on the hopper for my slurry to fall down onto the sluice bed. I took a good look at the hydroforce nozzle. I was all gumg ho for it until I saw the price. GUlp, $400, gulp. So, my plan is to put in a y before the reducer on the nozzle with a small hose running down to the end of the nozzle. I am completely lost as to what pump and hoses I need. I am thinking that if I want to dryland dredge, I should go small, like a 2", so my pump will be able to supply water and suck at the same time. I can go up to a 3", but that is all my club can allow. I bought this engine thinking it was a great deal, but it is not threaded, like I guess I need. As you can tell, I am lost at this point. I tried to get some info from John, but I need a certain level of expertise to understand what he is talking about and follow him. Sadly, I don't have that expertise. My plan so far is to use a suction nozzle so I can dredge shallow water. I would like the option to dryland dredge within a reasonable distance to water. Maybe a 100' away? This thing will be set up to highbank, but I really don't want to have to shovel. Seems like it is only a matter of horsepower and pump whether I shovel or not. But, if I highbank, I think that I should be able to run my pump at idle to accomplish that. I am open to the hookah pump as a possible future addition. If you could point me in the right direction for a pump and engine, that would be great. Any way to use the GX120 I already have to run it all?

 

[omnicron]

Well if your wanting to dredge dry land up to 100' away, why not buy a keene p180 for a keyed shaft.It's about 385 bucks. You will need a engine with 3/4" crank. harbor freight $99 special works great. The P180 will pump upto 161' of head lift but at that distance your flow will be a trickle. The deal with high pressure pumps er well any pump is how many gpm and head lift. At 0 lift ie" right out of the pump you get max flow. For a P180 that's around 300gpm at max rpm. As you add on hose, your flow decreases but your pressure increases. If you look at the performance curve of say the harbor freight pump you'll see what I'm talking about.

Pumping 100' will be a task for sure. Only buy very high quality layflat hose. From the end of that hose, you could tee off to your nozzle and banker. What ever you do, if your pump discharges at 2" maintain that size, don't reduce down until your nozzle. If you go to a tee, then keep going with 2" till your nozzle. This will assure you maximum flow/pressure.

2.5" is all the more you should run. If you go 3" you'll need a bigger pump then the HF one. P180 would work but your sluice may be a little small for a 3". You might end up overloading it.

The gx120 is about 3.5hp...well it's on the low side to try running a pump and compressor but it may be doable if you run it wot (wide open throttle) but it may work fine at 3/4. You can also check out

Home -- Dahlke Dredge mfg. Their pumps use keyed shafts but they are expensive. If I were you I would just go the keyed p180 from keene. if you wanting to pump the kind of distance your talking.