C. SP. / Good for 5 ¢ At Bart

[Iron Buzz]

C. SP. / Good for 5 ¢ At Bar

Found this today at a vacant lot near St Paul. Can't find anything about it on tokencatalog or other sites. Can anybody help me date or otherwise identify this token?

 

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[idahotokens]

That's going to be a bit of a problem to attribute. Assuming it is from the St. Paul area and say, about 1905, I looked in the classified business directory of the 1905 St. Paul City Directory for a saloon-keeper with first initial C. and last name starting with Sp. No joy. Backing up to 1902 - likewise. 1900 ditto. Giving up on going back in time, I went to 1907 and may have found paydirt: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. That translates to East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul. The 1908 City Directory has the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. 1909 has the same as 1908. He is not listed in 1911 and I don't have access to 1910. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper and in 1912 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

Now, I can't say for absolute certain that this is a good attribution, but it has a couple of things going for it. I am going to run it by the Minnesota token cataloger to get his opinion - I will let you know what he has to say. Would you be willing to post it, or let me post your pics, on tokencatalog.com?

John in the Great 208

 

[Iron Buzz]

That's going to be a bit of a problem to attribute. Assuming it is from the St. Paul area and say, about 1905, I looked in the classified business directory of the 1905 St. Paul City Directory for a saloon-keeper with first initial C. and last name starting with Sp. No joy. Backing up to 1902 - likewise. 1900 ditto. Giving up on going back in time, I went to 1907 and may have found paydirt: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. That translates to East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul. The 1908 City Directory has the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. 1909 has the same as 1908. He is not listed in 1911 and I don't have access to 1910. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper and in 1912 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

Now, I can't say for absolute certain that this is a good attribution, but it has a couple of things going for it. I am going to run it by the Minnesota token cataloger to get his opinion - I will let you know what he has to say. Would you be willing to post it, or let me post your pics, on tokencatalog.com?

John in the Great 208

Guess what... the lot that I found the token is on Concord Ave in Inver Grove Heights, near South St. Paul!! Awesome work!

Can I ask how you accessed the city directories?

 

[Iron Buzz]

That's going to be a bit of a problem to attribute. Assuming it is from the St. Paul area and say, about 1905, I looked in the classified business directory of the 1905 St. Paul City Directory for a saloon-keeper with first initial C. and last name starting with Sp. No joy. Backing up to 1902 - likewise. 1900 ditto. Giving up on going back in time, I went to 1907 and may have found paydirt: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. That translates to East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul. The 1908 City Directory has the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. 1909 has the same as 1908. He is not listed in 1911 and I don't have access to 1910. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper and in 1912 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

Now, I can't say for absolute certain that this is a good attribution, but it has a couple of things going for it. I am going to run it by the Minnesota token cataloger to get his opinion - I will let you know what he has to say. Would you be willing to post it, or let me post your pics, on tokencatalog.com?

John in the Great 208

Please feel free to post those pictures of it to tokencatalog. I probably should sign up for it, but I just have too darned many website logins as it is.

 

[Iron Buzz]

What that area that the bar was at looks like today in Google Street View

(Note that the current Concord Street was railroad tracks in those days. What is now called Concord Exchange is where the Charles Spilker bar would have been located)

 

[idahotokens]

Iron--Where you found it is good news - pretty much cements the attribution. I have been wondering why ol' Chuck Spilker used C. SP. as an abbreviation of his name - there was room for him to have his whole name put on the token. Plus the town, etc. We will never know...

Ancestry.com has a lot of city directories. I find them very valuable in researching mavericks. Yes, it is a $ubscription $ite, but I get my money's worth out of it. Many public libraries offer free access to it from their facilities. Plus there are lots of mormon church family history centers that do as well.

John

 

[idahotokens]

What does the token measure "across the flats"?
John

 

[Iron Buzz]

I suspect this may be our guy Charley: http://us-census.mooseroots.com/l/498957271/Charley-Spilker


Charley Spilker - 1900 Census Record Invergrove Township, Dakota County, Minnesota, United States

Charley Spilker lived in Dakota County, Minnesota in 1900. He was the head of the household, 48 years old, and identified as white. Charley was born in Germany around 1852, and both of his parents were born in Germany as well. In 1900, Charley was married to Mary Spilker, and they had five children named Mary, Charley, Gertrude, Clara, and Annie. He immigrated to the United States in 1878.

 

[idahotokens]

Here's the listing on tokencatalog:
South Saint Paul, Minnesota (Dakota County), U.S.A. [CA1]

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C. SP.

GOOD FOR / 5¢ / AT BAR

TC-486811 *** Image courtesy of and collection of "Iron Buzz"*** Dug in vacant lot on Concord Ave in Inver Grove Heights, near South St. Paul, MN. 1907 St. Paul, MN City Directory: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. (East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul.) The 1908 & 1909 City Directories have the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper" and in 1910 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

[/TD]
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[Iron Buzz]

What does the token measure "across the flats"?
John

0.8" (20mm)

 

[Iron Buzz]

I suspect this may be our guy Charley: http://us-census.mooseroots.com/l/498957271/Charley-Spilker


Charley Spilker - 1900 Census Record Invergrove Township, Dakota County, Minnesota, United States

Charley Spilker lived in Dakota County, Minnesota in 1900. He was the head of the household, 48 years old, and identified as white. Charley was born in Germany around 1852, and both of his parents were born in Germany as well. In 1900, Charley was married to Mary Spilker, and they had five children named Mary, Charley, Gertrude, Clara, and Annie. He immigrated to the United States in 1878.

"Inver Grove, Minn., July 19. Charles Spilker, a prominent suloon keeper, committed suicide by shooting himself. " (source)

I love it when you don't simply find an artifact, but you find a person.

 

[Iron Buzz]

 

[Iron Buzz]

Here's the listing on tokencatalog:
South Saint Paul, Minnesota (Dakota County), U.S.A. [CA1]

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[TD] [CA1] [/TD]
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[TD]

C. SP.

GOOD FOR / 5¢ / AT BAR

TC-486811 *** Image courtesy of and collection of "Iron Buzz"*** Dug in vacant lot on Concord Ave in Inver Grove Heights, near South St. Paul, MN. 1907 St. Paul, MN City Directory: Charles Spilker - Saloon - e s Concord 11 s of Grand Av South St. Paul. (East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul.) The 1908 & 1909 City Directories have the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper" and in 1910 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

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Interesting that you found the date of death to be Aug 12, 1915, and I found a newspaper clipping that states that he committed suicide in 1897. I think we may be talking about a Charley Sr and a Charley Jr here. The 1900 census does list a son, Charley, who was 16 at the time (born in 1884).

If this is correct, that means that Charley Sr died of suicide at age 45, and Charley Jr died of unknown causes at 31 (if it is correct that he died in 1915, as your research found).

I have so far been unable to locate any Spilker family still living in South St Paul or Inver Grove Heights.

 

[cudamark]

Instead of the guys name, could the SP simply stand for Saint Paul? Maybe it was short for "Cheers in Saint Paul" or something similar.

 

[idahotokens]

Iron--at the time, ~1907-1910, was the location of Spilker's saloon in South St. Paul, Inver Grove, or what?
John

 

[idahotokens]

Coulda Cuda - we may never know.
John

Instead of the guys name, could the SP simply stand for Saint Paul? Maybe it was short for "Cheers in Saint Paul" or something similar.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Iron--at the time, ~1907-1910, was the location of Spilker's saloon in South St. Paul, Inver Grove, or what?
John

East side of Concord, 11 doors south of Grand Avenue in South St. Paul. The 1908 City Directory has the same thing, only he was 13 doors south. 1909 has the same as 1908. He is not listed in 1911 and I don't have access to 1910.

That would be South St Paul. It sounds as though he moved south a bit.



In the 1900 Census he is listed in Inver Grove as "saloon keeper and in 1912 he is shown as "saloon & boarding house". He died 12 Aug 1915.

I stopped at Cameron's Liquor Store this afternoon. Cameron's has been a name in Inver Grove for several generations. Steve Cameron (I believe that was his name) told me that there used to be a Spilker Hotel right across the street from where the liquor store is located! He said it burned down in 1948, but had been vacant for a long time before that.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Instead of the guys name, could the SP simply stand for Saint Paul? Maybe it was short for "Cheers in Saint Paul" or something similar.

Doubtful. Too many pieces of this puzzle fit perfectly. Also, South St. Paul is not simply the south part of the city of St. Paul... it is a town in its own right.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Idahotokens, you wrote "He died 12 Aug 1915". Where did you get that information from? The city directory? That date is causing me a bit of trouble, since if that was Charley Jr, that would have him dead at 31 years. Not that it couldn't have been, but even for those days, that is pretty young. Also bothers me that the guy from the liquor store (verified by my 93 year old neighbor) said that the Spilker hotel was still standing, by that name, in the 1940's.

My 93 year old neighbor, by the way, believes that he remembers the bar. That bothers me a bit, too, since he was born in 1924.

Of course, these places can keep the original owner's name for a long time after they die, I guess.

 

[Iron Buzz]

View attachment 1467587

OK, the librarian at the county historical museum helped me out with the discrepancies on Charley Sr.'s death. The newspaper printed a retraction the next day. The suicide victim was one "Frederick Ronnebert, who committed suicide by taking poison at Spiker's summer garden. The dispatch send the coroner was misleading, and the inference, in his opinion, was that it referred to Spilker. Ronneberg had been drinking rather heavily of late, owing to alleged domestic troubles."

So, Charles Spilker Sr did indeed die in 1915, and his son took over the Spilker hotel (which I've managed to find a photo of).