California emergency dredge regulation updated on Dec 26th 2013

[dredgeman]

The Emergency dredge regulation update was posted on the cdfw suction dredge page. It re updates the regulation and sets up the end of sluicing.

 

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[fowledup]

I don't think they set it up to remove sluicing, sounds like they just did it! If taken literally shoveling out a pool, building up rocks or wing damming for your sluice could be construed as changing flow. Or if your sluicing material from outside of the stream you could be cited and yours would be the burden of proof as to high water location, or defining stream proper, or introduction of deleterious materials to fish etc. Another punch to the gut, by removing the word "motorized" from fish and game code 5653.1, they have technically included slurp guns, and sniping with a sniffer bottle. It is all intentionally vague, gray, with no specific listings, and subject to interpretation. It should not be left up to the interpretation or mood of field LEO's. More lawsuits on the way, exactly as they planned!

 

[loco oro]

when will this all end,when you cant even enter the water!?

 

[dredgeman]

I don't think they set it up to remove sluicing, sounds like they just did it! If taken literally shoveling out a pool, building up rocks or wing damming for your sluice could be construed as changing flow. Or if your sluicing material from outside of the stream you could be cited and yours would be the burden of proof as to high water location, or defining stream proper, or introduction of deleterious materials to fish etc. Another punch to the gut, by removing the word "motorized" from fish and game code 5653.1, they have technically included slurp guns, and sniping with a sniffer bottle. It is all intentionally vague, gray, with no specific listings, and subject to interpretation. It should not be left up to the interpretation or mood of field LEO's. More lawsuits on the way, exactly as they planned!

Read it again it specifically says current water level. They dropped the high water mark thing in 2009

It will not stop until they close the sierra Nevada for critical habitat. No other human but them

 

[dredgeman]

If the area is shut down as critical habitat, there is no fighting hunters or fishermen. There will be no hunting or fishing in the habitat.

 

[carnet56]

dam comminism

 

[fowledup]

Read it again it specifically says current water level. They dropped the high water mark thing in 2009

It will not stop until they close the sierra Nevada for critical habitat. No other human but them

I retract the high water part of my comment. You are correct, my point was more to the effect that you will be forced to fight a citation in court as the law is vague at best. In fact if cited you should probably take photos or video (which is probably inadmissible but I would anyway.) of your dig site.
I agree with you this is about removing all land users from the forest, the rest is smoke and mirrors.

 

[Hefty1]

Looks the same to me......carry on!

 

[fowledup]

If the area is shut down as critical habitat, there is no fighting hunters or fishermen. There will be no hunting or fishing in the habitat.

I take it this is in reference to my unpopular post last week about our need to put past differences aside and come together with the hunters and fisherman of the state.
I think common sense and current events dictate that it's even more important now. I'll say it again we need all the voices and votes we can get, be they miners, hunters, fishermen, birdwatchers, or backpackers.

 

[simbad42]

If I read the right thing, it said "substantial". So is there a definition for what they consider substantial? Or is it relative to the size of the waterway?

 

[chupacabra]

Dredgman please post a link to sites you are bringing attention to don't make me do all the work, K, thanks

Suction Dredge Permitting Program - California Department of Fish and Wildlife

It also states Further, Fish and Game Code section 1602 requires that any person notify CDFW before substantially diverting or obstructing the natural flow of, or substantially changing or using any material from the bed, channel or bank of any river, stream or lake.

If you go to the link below that statements it takes you to a page that shows a culvert, THAT IS SUBSTANTIAL not what most of us do is or should be considered substantial.

Notification of Lake or Streambed Alteration

Notification is required by any person, business, state or local government agency, or public utility that proposes an activity that will:

substantially divert or obstruct the natural flow of any river, stream or lake;
substantially change or use any material from the bed, channel, or bank of, any river, stream, or lake; or
deposit or dispose of debris, waste, or other material containing crumbled,flaked, or ground pavement where it may pass into any river, stream, or lake.

Just like to let everyone know if they plan on dredging to contact your local sheriffs deptartment and let them in on whats going on and especially if you have FEDERAL mining claims, sheriffs have jurisdiction over state agencys like forest dept, sheriffs will usually go along with federal laws and as long as you have a claim federal mining laws apply to us, they prempt state since the state gave up that lands so we could have those federal mining claims, am I close to being correct mr dredgeman? and if DFG decides to site you just let them know that your on a claim and your not giving up your rights by congressional law and that they need to contact the local sheriffs dept because your not going to accpet there illegal out of there jursidiction citation so yes, carry on .

 

[chupacabra]

If I read the right thing, it said "substantial". So is there a definition for what they consider substantial? Or is it relative to the size of the waterway?

Something like a culvert Lake and Streambed Alteration Program - California Department of Fish and Wildlife

 

[Jeff95531]

I don't think they set it up to remove sluicing, sounds like they just did it! If taken literally shoveling out a pool, building up rocks or wing damming for your sluice could be construed as changing flow. Or if your sluicing material from outside of the stream you could be cited and yours would be the burden of proof as to high water location, or defining stream proper, or introduction of deleterious materials to fish etc. Another punch to the gut, by removing the word "motorized" from fish and game code 5653.1, they have technically included slurp guns, and sniping with a sniffer bottle. It is all intentionally vague, gray, with no specific listings, and subject to interpretation. It should not be left up to the interpretation or mood of field LEO's. More lawsuits on the way, exactly as they planned!

Yes...the way it reads too, if we "pretend" to be recreational miners, they will leave us alone. Ever feel like you're being led by the nose? It makes me sick what government has done, has become and has planned...always has.

 

[Jeff95531]

If I read the right thing, it said "substantial". So is there a definition for what they consider substantial? Or is it relative to the size of the waterway?

Ultimately, the LEO makes the determination of "substantial" and then leaves it up to the courts to decide. It is not a fun ride

 

[fowledup]

These regulations protect the LEO, they are not geared for common sense application. They are written in such a way that everything from A-Z is encompassed and in the event you are cited, you will be by interpretation "technically" guilty. They are designed not to keep you from doing wrong, but to make sure their citation stands up in court.

Substantial- in relation to what? And in what amount of time. Couple of guys feeding a bazooka could easily move a cubic yard in a day, is that substantial? How about winching out 4-5 easy chair sized boulders? There was a recent post showing an excellent sluice set up, based on the creek size he rerouted the majority of the creek is that substantial? Does it matter if it's temporary or permanent, what's permanent? What I'm getting at is this is a no win the way it's written, if they want to write you up your guilty, and it will cost you big bucks to prove otherwise.

 

[chupacabra]

When i got my dredging citation i wish things were more like they are now here, with the support of our local sheriffs. I would have told the DFG cop he was wasting paper along with his and mines time, the court system here doesn't want to deal with this illegal crap thats being done my case was dismissed and yeah, it took 4 visits to court, I had court appointed attorneys who backed me up and got it dismissed even though the district attorneys office seemed to want to prosecute but I promised them Id take it to trial.
Its pretty clear what they're talking about, its not a yard of dirt, its not moving a few boulders either, will you be cited, depends on the cop, is there a citation for altering a creek or river, i think there is and i know another guy who won his case in court it actually got dropped, pety B.S is how its getting so the games changed, if your staying in the game be ready for court if you dont want to go threw that B.S then your gonna have to be stealthy or quit, go metal detecting..

 

[Clay Diggins]

Nothing changed. What's the big hooha?

 

[fowledup]

In previous regs. Under "Mining activity not prohibited by moratorium" weren't hand dredges, and sluices specifically listed along with panning as ok?

 

[DizzyDigger]

Not being able to dam up a creek to increase water flow through your sluice
has been a law here in Washington for many years. We aren't allowed to even
move rocks/boulders to divert some water to the sluice:

See page 11: http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00290/wdfw00290.pdf

2009 is the latest revision of the Wa. state prospecting regs.

You'll also see the diagrams of where we can, and can't dig for
material. The laws here are more restrictive than Calif. laws, I believe,
but we still have plenty of spots to dig. I have been known to move
a rock or two to increase flow in my sluice, but there's usually enough
directed flow over natural dams that I prefer to place my sluice there.

May very well be that those living now will be the last generation
of prospectors in the US.

Carnet was close...Socialism is rooting itself deep in our country,
and it won't be long until the "The State" controls each and every
facet of our lives...from where we live, how much we earn and
where we can go. "The State" will independently legislate the rights
to ALL precious metals to themselves, and private ownership of them
will be deemed illegal, as that would be stealing from "The State".

Hope they choke on all the lead.

I fear what lies ahead for our children in the next 25 years. A
2nd Civil War seems almost unavoidable unless the pendulum begins
swing back the other way, and fast.

 

[Doitlaynstyle]

Quite simply the time is coming to arm yourself and actually fight back against this tyranny. These lands are ours, not theirs, and we entrusted them to manage both habitat and mining to preserve the resources for years to come. They are not doing what they were put there to do. They are just trying to remove the miner. Time to remove them.